Are Special Characters useful anymore

[Hashulaman]

CSM special Characters, anyone use them? How can we make them work? I really would like to make them work, I really do. I think maybe if we use them with a Daemon prince, they'd be pretty awesome. Thoughts?

[Night Lord Dred]

I dont think so. Khârn seems to be the only one that might be worth the points, but Ive never used him (not a fan of specials, period), so I couldnt say.

[Hashulaman]

I don't see why special characters are soo looked down upon. It's not like they are a Lash prince which is far worse and draws alot more contempt even though its not a special character. You think the fact they are not so overpowered they would be acceptable in friendly games.

[Seahawk]

Khârn carves dudes up. 'Nuff said. Huron is good as a replacement CSM squad unit champion, improving the squad's abilities in every way.

[Night Lord Dred]

I don't see why special characters are soo looked down upon. It's not like they are a Lash prince which is far worse and draws alot more contempt even though its not a special character. You think the fact they are not so overpowered they would be acceptable in friendly games.

 

If you were referring to my post:

 

First, our special characters are really, really expensive. This makes them sub par choices when we can have 2 daemon princes for the same cost.

 

Second, I "look down" on them, partly for the above reason, but mainly because I like fluff and none of the characters suits my army. Even if they had a Night Lords hero, I still probably wouldnt use him for fun because he's a named character, and not my own.

[the jeske]

cost too much for what they can do[ahriman/tyfus] . pretty much force the use of a LR rush build [tyfus/abadon] what makes their units even more expensive . the cheaper ones are really weak [fabius /lucius/huron] ,all of them are really slow and as all of them [save for fabius and ahriman] work only in hth , that does seem to be a huge problem with them. Khârn is ok , because he is cheap and he is like an extra zerker [but still slow] .

so yeah chaos specials do suck.

[Drudge Dreadnought]

Lucious and Huron would be good if they could have wings/jumppack.

[the jeske]

lucius would be good , if he had eternal warrior right now it looks like this. lucius does attacks , squad does attacks , enemy squad does attacks . fist swings lucius dies .... lucius no longer on table armor doesnt work.

 

huron had so much potential . even if he had his 2ed rule , he would have been made of awesome [you could take codex space marine units/gear but it costed 50% more] . generally all chaos specials are wasted potential. if they could modify foc or make the "less good" options more worthy they would see play , otherwise there is no reason to take them.

[saintevil]

I have had rather good luck with ics. I play Lucius along with 9csm in a rhino, (i can already hear it!) use them as anti infantry cc squad and he does good. He does eat pf evry now and then but most of the times they kill of anything they touch. Cept for wyches and banshees. OUCH!

[Brother Nihm]

I don't see why special characters are soo looked down upon. It's not like they are a Lash prince which is far worse and draws alot more contempt even though its not a special character. You think the fact they are not so overpowered they would be acceptable in friendly games.

They are looked down upon because as opposed to C:SM characters they bring nothing to the table apart from a different statline. They bring very little to the table that a Lord, Prince or Sorceror doesn't do - for less points.

[biglou666]

me i personally like lucius the eternal. ws 7 combined with lash of torment and armour of shrieking souls is aweosme. i put him in a small squad of noise marines (5-6) that all have sonic blasters. a winning combo imo.

[Chaos Lord Shamrockius]

I think this comes back to the issues with the current 'Dex, it seems watered down compared to it's predecessors as well as when you compare it to the Imperial 'Dex. When you have SC's in either C:SM and also C:IG that give something to a unit it leads, or can give additional abilities or assistance to units around them, it's disappointing that we don't get such things.

[infyrana]

Same thoughts, when I compare to what I know of the BA codex now, at least people like Dante and Lemartes have jetpacks, and Corbulo being able to help with some rolls etc.

 

It would be nice to see some faster moving HQ's, or an option to add cheap retinues or transport vehicles for them to make their cost more acceptable and dilutable into the army.

[the jeske]

me i personally like lucius the eternal. ws 7 combined with lash of torment and armour of shrieking souls is aweosme. i put him in a small squad of noise marines (5-6) that all have sonic blasters. a winning combo imo.

ok lets put the small unit with regular numbe of attacks with normal save as hth unit aside. what make luciusa wining combo ? ws7 ? well if he had 6 sm would hit him the same and he is hiting everythings +3 anyway[unless it is something like a tyrant/DP etc then he is dead ] . amor of damnation ? well maybe if he gets charge by a unit with low str low number of attacks , then maybe but how offten do you see a unit of fire warriors or IG guardsman charge stuff? more when he actually gets in to hth with a meq unit then he eats fists and dies and armor aint used [or he eats demon weapon , force weapon , relic blade etc etc] . yes lash of torrment drops the attacks by one , but not to 0 . this means against a lot of armies it does nothing [and against units that can actually hurt him it doesnt really help as all that has to go through is one attack to instant death him ].

[chillin]

CSM special Characters, anyone use them? How can we make them work? I really would like to make them work, I really do. I think maybe if we use them with a Daemon prince, they'd be pretty awesome. Thoughts?

 

*I don't use them for several reasons, 1- overpriced for what they do/stats/equipment, 2- as others have said, they bring nothing to army other then what they can "physically" do themselves, and for those prices they should bring benefit to squad or army (even if it's something small), 3- I like having my own character with his own history (though in this dex the options for building him are quite limited)

* Unlike trying a new army build where there are many factors, there is really no way of "making SC work" (other then very obvious things, like abby has to be in a LR), you either put them in your army or you don't.

* how would using them with a DP make the special character any better or anymore worth the pts ?? Just makes you HQ that much more expensive.

+ I'm not telling you not to use them, do what you want. Just saying they are sub-par for the pts and there is just really no way of making them more effective other then using sound tactics (like you should with every unit) to get the most out of them.

Khârn and Huron are the only two I would even consider (hey, they are the cheapest too...how bout that).

Abby maybe in huge games (2500+)

[Brother Vader]

I like Lucius as he's a fluffy HQ for an Emperor's Children warband. He's the only character that can carry a sonic weapon. If you put him in a squad of Noise Marines with a doom siren you do double the number of siren hits. That's nasty.

Fabius is the most interesting of the special characters as he's the only one that actually changes your army composition. His enhanced warriors are the cheapest fearless troops in the codex. Their increased strength makes them a bit like Posessed only cheaper, more predictable, more customisable, scoring, and they can shoot a bit too.

[IronWinds]

Most of them are bleh. Again for their points what could you take? A lord with nearly the same statline, minus a special rule or two but a lot cheaper. Lord has the same problem, can be instakilled. Lord or Sorcerer however can have wings.

 

The only one I like is Abby. I have on those those super tooled up demon lords in terminator armor that were playable in 3.5 A lord's statline does not give this model any credit so I use him as a count as Abbadon. Yes he needs a LR full of zerkers or terminators, but I only use him in big games so its not a complete loss. I would never dream of using any of the special characters in an 1850 ;) .

[Ashe Darke]

I reckon Jeske has it pretty much. They all are IC's and can all get sniped by a powerfist except for Abaddon, who is 275pts. Hmmmm no.

[Cale]

Can you make the work? Sure. Kharne and Huron are reasonable foot-lord equivalents. They can go in transports with squads and perform reasonably well. If you're considering a Terminator lord or sorcerer anyway, Typhus isn't a terrible alternative, and Abbadon is a beast, though he's a ton of points.

 

Lucius is unexceptional, Ahriman is really too much for what he does, and Bile is basically trash.

 

The rest are all either really powerful, but too expensive, or basically good lords--with the same problem that all lords have: not being daemon princes. And they all require transports and escort squads to be good, basically.

 

So, you can make them work, but they're never going to be great. In terms of effectiveness, you're pretty much better of with a DP every time.

[Dan The Deamon]

I think aspiring champions are skipping the whole lord thing these days. The gods are quick to gift them stature and eternal warrior. Deamon princes are a little more watered down than the gods would like, but that's what they get when they have to make so many.

 

10k year old marine leading his group of baddies on a black crusade

50 year old blood claw picks up a power fist

 

Guess who wins

[SamaNagol]

Khârn's the only one who is value. Way better than a Lord with MoK and Daemon Weapon/LClaws

[MasterOfDisaster]

It probably goes against what most people say here...but yes i do take the characters. I have reasonable success with abbadon in 2000 point games and a quite few 1500's depending on the army. At my local GW, i'm actually known as "the abbadon guy" :lol: there is also a cheese army i can do...but i don't ever take it. Like they said, most of them are very expensive, so unless you've used them and have had steady success with them, don't use them.

 

abbadon 275

 

5 marines 75

 

5 marines 75

 

obliterator 75

 

Total: 500

[the jeske]

what do you do , if you play with this against the eldar 500 build . you have one oblit to catch them with and nothing to even get close to them?

[Hashulaman]

Well im doing fluff armies, Death Guard, Thousand sons ect, and the special chaarcters would fit. I play for fluff and story, I'm not an ultra competitive player that takes 2 lash princes to friendly games and doesn't care what other people think.

[Spacefrisian]

The sniping of those Characters can be prevented if you keep notice where that Powerfist is hiding. Just keep him 3"+ away from that guy.