Tomevans Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 The only thing i have to really disagree with is the readiness of the TS in either situation. Space Marines are powerul, terrible opponents, but at the end they are just men. which is to say that certain things will appear in them just like any armed force in history. As the SM codex points out, it itsnt impossible for a Chapter Fortress to be penetrated by steath (which marine chapter give attacked and pretty much crushed by huron blackheart again?). It was the Marines Errant. However, in that scenario their chapter keep was only defended by 120 marines AND the Chapter defences had been shut down as some Night Lords had crept in and shut down the power supply. 120 "present day" marines with broken defences is completely different to a Legion full of HH marines on a well protected world, even if they were caught by suprise. I could see the TS being a lot sterner opposition than 120 Marines Errant, even considering they were up against a Legion of crazed rage hungry lunatics like the Space Wolves. Huron Blackheart, Loads of Night Lords and all of Huron's pirates against 120 marines is alot more skewed than 2 legions facing off. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189242-legions-switching-sides/page/3/#findComment-2252588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 13th Goat Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 Do you mean World Eaters? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189242-legions-switching-sides/page/3/#findComment-2252613 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted January 18, 2010 Share Posted January 18, 2010 i could see that if the khan didnt: When the two first met. it is said that the Khan knew he had met someone who embodied the ultimate ideal he had striven for, a man who could unite all the stars in the sky IA WS pg43 to betray this man would have taken a event of terrible destruction, or a complete re-write of who the khan was. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189242-legions-switching-sides/page/3/#findComment-2252617 Share on other sites More sharing options...
philpill Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Do you mean World Eaters? I think he meant Word Bearers. World Eaters don't sneak about. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189242-legions-switching-sides/page/3/#findComment-2253286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomevans Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 It was actually the Night Lords lol. Major fail on my part. I've changed it now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189242-legions-switching-sides/page/3/#findComment-2253386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Mordeus Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 Don't know if its been said before, but, about Magnus. - He has been under the control of Tzeentch for a while, even before he decided to send the psychic message to the empreror. Horus sais in Collected Visions that Magnus is corrupted though he doesn't know it yet. The message is actually sent by Tzeentch, for it is actually a spear which pierces the Emperor's psychic shield. So, im just saying this, because of all the talk about Magnus being the real hero of the Imperium and blabla,,, Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189242-legions-switching-sides/page/3/#findComment-2255098 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 Well, Magnus was already being manipulated, but his loyalty still lay with the Emperor. It was still the attack of the Space Wolves that made him turn to Tzeentch. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189242-legions-switching-sides/page/3/#findComment-2255305 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Don't know if its been said before, but, about Magnus. - He has been under the control of Tzeentch for a while, even before he decided to send the psychic message to the empreror. Horus sais in Collected Visions that Magnus is corrupted though he doesn't know it yet. The message is actually sent by Tzeentch, for it is actually a spear which pierces the Emperor's psychic shield. So, im just saying this, because of all the talk about Magnus being the real hero of the Imperium and blabla,,, don't bother pushing this...i have i dont know how many times and it always is the same. people will ignore what is is plain print to turn magnus into a tragic hero. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189242-legions-switching-sides/page/3/#findComment-2255521 Share on other sites More sharing options...
greatcrusade08 Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 I still think that Ultra :D were the worst of the worse, staying out of the fight, then comming in after it, and imposing their will on the rest of the battered legions... If the Ultra's had been part, they would've made a massive differance, an untouched legion so to speak, rather then battered ones. I hear stuff like this far too often, its complete rubbish.. the Ultras didnt stay out of the fight, they were kept out of it by the word bearers sneak assault with the massive super-barge. they still fought through the trap and set course for earth.. sure they arrived too late, but so did the wolves and dark angels. As for imposing thier 'will' this is grossly misunderstood. The Ultras were the only legion not to lose thier heads and go chasing off after the chaos legions, even with all thier numbers they were strecthed thinly policing the galaxy and freeing worlds etc. They did this for a decade! infact it was seven years after the death of horus that guilliman wrote the codex.. if you want to call that imposing thier will then so be it, but the codex saved the galaxy from another great schism. Even though the Ultras were all over the galaxy and trying to get all chapters to agree to the codex, they still managed to fight chaos legions which resulted in: a: Guilliman killing Alpharius (ignore theories, a primarch can tell his brother apart from a space marine) and b: Guilliman getting mortally wounded by Fulgrim. with the size of the Ultra legion and thier immense recruitment, if they had turned traitor it would have ben curtains for the loyalists, not only would the word bearers and thier captal ship been freed to join the fight but guillimans tactical genious would have been invaluable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189242-legions-switching-sides/page/3/#findComment-2255851 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Don't know if its been said before, but, about Magnus. - He has been under the control of Tzeentch for a while, even before he decided to send the psychic message to the empreror. Horus sais in Collected Visions that Magnus is corrupted though he doesn't know it yet. The message is actually sent by Tzeentch, for it is actually a spear which pierces the Emperor's psychic shield. So, im just saying this, because of all the talk about Magnus being the real hero of the Imperium and blabla,,, don't bother pushing this...i have i dont know how many times and it always is the same. people will ignore what is is plain print to turn magnus into a tragic hero. WLK Oh pooh-pooh, Kieran, pooh-pooh. :lol: I haven't read Collected Visions so I don't know. I am stuck on the old fluff where Magnus's connection with Tzeentch was not as clear as CV has made it. What was the release date for CV? I will be interested in how the SW-TS duo portrays it. Will CV be an anomaly (with Magnus re-emerging as a Tragic Hero, very Greek-esque) or will 'the duo' solidify CV and thus condemn Magnus as a long time puppet of Tzeentch? *I just searched for CV to get a release date for CV, and I get Amazon Books. I then see the cover of Prospero Burns and think 'What the?!' but alas, it then says this has not yet been released. Oh what a tease! ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189242-legions-switching-sides/page/3/#findComment-2255878 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 13th Goat Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Horus Heresy: Collected Visions is out now, and has been for about 2 years ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189242-legions-switching-sides/page/3/#findComment-2255902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Wilhelm Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 Horus Heresy: Collected Visions is out now, and has been for about 2 years ^_^ I wasn't asking with the view of 'what is this new-fangled thing you are selling' but just wanted the release date, to gaze at my navel about whether or not Magnus as Tragic Hero or as Tzeentch's marionette will be in the SW-TS duo. I knew it was out for a while, but have only got back into the hobby from the start of '09. Grazia The 13th Goat ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189242-legions-switching-sides/page/3/#findComment-2257217 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 13th Goat Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 No worries man, i was just suprised. I was reading your posts like, "he knows this is out, right?". Its worth buying, its a great read! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189242-legions-switching-sides/page/3/#findComment-2257975 Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingwarmonkey Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Ok i'm gonna say the world eaters would have been it for the loyalists because with them and the space wolves the traitors would have had no real teeth those two legions were the most ferocious and awsome of all their brothers and they would have went through half of the traitiors like butter (like the space wolves did to the TS) then look at the rest of what horus would have had left sure the Luna wolves were Bad but the word bearers or the iron warriors and even the emperors children werent in the same league The other big one is the Alpha Legion if they didn't start hitting loyalist legions enroute to earth a lot more of them could have made it and saved the day and for the traitors I'm gonna say Space wolves would have made a huge difference how bad would your day have been to be an Imperial fist and have wolves comming for you granted that probably would have meant that magnus stayed loyal but we all already know how much difference that would have made Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189242-legions-switching-sides/page/3/#findComment-2260247 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Payton Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 The Word Bearers Stupot! They started the whole damn thing! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/189242-legions-switching-sides/page/3/#findComment-2262344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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