Canis vs Wolf Lord

[Quantus]

I have been running Canis, but after reading today I realized just how much more potential bang for your buck you have out of a wolf lord.

 

Canis: 185 pts

Wolf Lord equipped identically: 215 pts

(TW mount, dual WC, wolftooth necklace, wolf tail talisman, saga of the wolfkin)

 

Canis has his two special rules that a wolf lord can't get, and he gets to keep rending. rending really doesn't do anything but let you pop armor on 6s.

The wolf lord has Ld 10, ws6, bs5(though with two wolf claws this does nothing), and most importantly, a lot more options in wargear

I always run Canis with a full pack of fenrisian wolves, and They are the only pack i put on the board. The wolf lord gives him his higher leadership. I've only seen one time Canis has been able to use his special rule for bonus attacks. He got one more attack than normal.

 

Thus, I have two questions for fellow SW players:

1. Is there any reason for me not to field a wolf lord instead?

2. How would you build a CC monster TW mounted wolf lord?

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

i would never bother with Canis, especially with the way you can tool up WLs. Canis has no invul save, which makes him next to useless in my book.

 

i tool my WL up with FB, SS, RA, WTN, MB. he gets expensive, but is very very worth it. the amount of death/fear he has caused is awesome.

 

WLK

[Ominous Anonymous]

I really don't see a reason to take Canis except for if you run Land Speeders or Swiftclaws in addition to your TWC unit(s) and want to free up some Fast Attack slots. As for your second question, I prefer to run my Lord with a tricked-out unit of TWC (that is to say, one that abuses the wound-allocation rules :ph34r:) with all the bells and whistles:

 

Wolf Lord – 295pts

-Thunderwolf Mount

-Storm Shield

-Thunder Hammer

-Runic Armor

-Wolf Tail Talisman

-Wolf-tooth Necklace

-Saga of the Warrior Born/Bear

-Fenrisian Wolf x 2

 

Cons:

-Really expensive (only as much as Logan, though)

-Using a Thunder Hammer means he might not have enough to kill after his TWC buddies by the time Initiative 1 rolls around, meaning you might not get much of a benefit out of Warrior Born. Feel free to replace the hammer with a frost weapon for S6 I5 goodness, allowing you to rev up kills, or Warrior-Born with Bear, making him a more balanced monster-hunter (and allows you to assign him the occasional S10 hit so you don't lose an entire model)

 

Pros:

-Kinda sickeningly survivable: T5, 2+/3++, essentially 2 extra wounds from the Fenrisian Wolves, etc.

-Lots of strength 10 attacks. Even only +2 or 3 attacks from Warrior ramps his killy-ness exponentially. Have his squad charge a unit of Carnifexii and turn them to dust. And then gain extra attacks from it! :blink:

-Combined with a big unit of TWC, he becomes a huge target. Why is this a bonus? Well, if they're shooting at the Deathstar unit, what aren't they shooting at? Your Grey Hunters, your Long Fangs, your transports, et cetera. And if they don't shoot at the Deathstar unit? Well...you know how it goes. ;)

 

Alternatively, just give him Warrior Born, a Wolf Belt, and Frost Weapon + Bolt Pistol, and have him run around with a bit unit of Fenrisian Wolves and he'll tear large units to pieces. However, you'll want to spend the 15pts for Saga of the Wolfkin on another IC if possible, if only so the Wolves are now I5

[Athalus]

To save some points and perhaps be a bit more competitive, I would suggest using a WGBL on a TWM (the stat loses aren't that bad). Pretty much that kit of FB, SS, RA, WTN, MB, as suggested by the above poster, is pretty rock solid. You can also grab a saga, be it beastslayer or warrior born. With warrior born you are gonna make Canis look like a chump cause you are gonna be cleaving through the enemy every assault giving a nice amount of bonus attacks. Beastslayer for more heroey/MC armies, warrior born for the hordes, or just warrior born cause its fun =).

 

Canis, however, can come into his own if you give him lots of F-wolves, and protection. But I would still opt for your own custom wolf lord.

[Ominous Anonymous]

In larger games, Canis is useful against Horde lists. A tooled-up TWC unit would still not do so well against a huge unit of boys, but Canis is pretty good on his own. The trick is to, at the beginning of the turn, split him off from the unit, have him assault and be surrounded by boys, and let loose with 10 rerollable hits or wound attacks. :ph34r:

[Quantus]

Let me clarify my situation, I will ALWAYS be running him with a pack of fenrisian wolves, so I consider saga of the wolfkin pretty much mandatory.

Forgive me for my ignorance, but why is FB and SS better than dual wolf claws? (aside from the better invuln than a belt of russ) It seems to be what everyone prefers, though I would think that that in an infantry slaying role, the rerolls from the wolf claws would be more useful.

[Ominous Anonymous]

If you're running a Wolf Lord, go for dual WCs, if BL go for FB+SS. The difference really is the fact that BLs can't take a Wolf Belt. Do you run any other HQs in your list, though?

[Athalus]

If you're running a Wolf Lord, go for dual WCs, if BL go for FB+SS. The difference really is the fact that BLs can't take a Wolf Belt. Do you run any other HQs in your list, though?

 

What he said. =P. And frost blades can be customized to fit the cavalry theme, such as a long frosty lance/polearm/poleaxe.

[Thunderpup]

-Kinda sickeningly survivable: T5, 2+/3++, essentially 2 extra wounds from the Fenrisian Wolves, etc.

 

Are the Fenrisian Wolves still a good idea now that the FAQ says to treat them as a seperate targetable unit in close combat?

[Quantus]

If you're running a Wolf Lord, go for dual WCs, if BL go for FB+SS. The difference really is the fact that BLs can't take a Wolf Belt. Do you run any other HQs in your list, though?

 

Yes, Nyal Stormcaller and Logan Grimner, purely for fun. Grimnar will probably be replaced by a wolf lord tooled for CC, just to get some points back.

[Ominous Anonymous]

-Kinda sickeningly survivable: T5, 2+/3++, essentially 2 extra wounds from the Fenrisian Wolves, etc.

 

Are the Fenrisian Wolves still a good idea now that the FAQ says to treat them as a seperate targetable unit in close combat?

 

The only reason they shouldn't be alive by the time the unit hits close combat is because you didn't assign the first two Vindicator wounds to them. :ph34r:

 

Yes, Nyal Stormcaller and Logan Grimner, purely for fun. Grimnar will probably be replaced by a wolf lord tooled for CC, just to get some points back.

 

That's a bit heavy on the army list even without a Thunder Lord. If you can, try and fit in a Battle Leader over Grimnar, and give him Wolfkin.

[Freman Bloodglaive]

You have the option of re-rolling to hit, or re-rolling to wound, but really you'll be re-rolling to wound because there's very few circumstances where re-rolling to hit would be better.

 

Re-rolling the wound the frostblade is equal too, or better than the wolf claws under most (or all) circumstances. They're also cheaper.

 

You do gain an attack with twin claws, but then you can always take bolt pistol/frostblade and get the bonus attack/belt of Russ anyway.

 

Frostblade/storm shield 55 points, twin claws/belt 65 points.

 

I'd say a minimum selection of Wolf Lord, thunder wolf, frost blade and storm shield at 200 points is actually a very tough, reasonable mobile unit. Factor in a few more upgrades to make even more tough and killy and he's a chunk of points that can cause mayhem on the battlefield.

[Wildfire]

In response to the original question, I don't think there's any reason to take Canis now that they have clarified that the T bonus from TWM counts toward Instant Death. Unless, of course, you are using a lot of FA slots (bikers, jumppackers, speeders, or TWC).

[Quantus]

That's a bit heavy on the army list even without a Thunder Lord. If you can, try and fit in a Battle Leader over Grimnar, and give him Wolfkin.

 

Even a lord geared for cc will give me points back. As much fun as it is to put 3 hard hitting heroes on the board, it is heavy and makes the lucky shot that drops one early hurt a lot.

Lord, FW, SS, runic armor, wolfkin, 190 points and still mean in cc. I get 85 points back to pay for replacing canis with a thunderlord

[Quillen]

I don't think there's any reason to take Canis now that they have clarified that the T bonus from TWM counts toward Instant Death.

 

Um where did they clarifie anything in this new codex? Cause I have not seen it.

 

A Frost blade is better cause you strength with it would be 6. So you have a chance to wound on anything but a 1. And it can hurt big bugs. And we will be seeing a few big bugs the next few months. lol

 

So with a Wolf Tooth knecklace your hitting on 3s and wounding on 2+ on most thinks and hurt biggens on 4 or 5 up.

[Godhead]

The new FAQ removes rending from not only TWC with special weapons, but also Canis. I think that kind of makes Canis useless, unless you intend to run FW wolf spam. I think a wolf lord or a wgbl (which is what canis really is) kitted out and given saga of the warrior born comes out being more useful. Canis's special rule to gain the extra attacks really seems like its only good if he is alone. My Canis will now be used as a regular wolf lord that is kited out similarly.

[Athalus]

The new FAQ removes rending from not only TWC with special weapons, but also Canis. I think that kind of makes Canis useless, unless you intend to run FW wolf spam. I think a wolf lord or a wgbl (which is what canis really is) kitted out and given saga of the warrior born comes out being more useful. Canis's special rule to gain the extra attacks really seems like its only good if he is alone. My Canis will now be used as a regular wolf lord that is kited out similarly.

 

No rending = buzzkill. Definitely not worth it. I have the Canis model only to be converted.

[Wildfire]

I don't think there's any reason to take Canis now that they have clarified that the T bonus from TWM counts toward Instant Death.

 

Um where did they clarifie anything in this new codex? Cause I have not seen it.

 

In the FAQ

 

A Frost blade is better cause you strength with it would be 6. So you have a chance to wound on anything but a 1. And it can hurt big bugs. And we will be seeing a few big bugs the next few months.

 

Frost blade is definately worse than dual wolf claws against T6. Either needs 6s to wound, and the wolf claws get a reroll

[Grey Mage]

No... Frost blades would normally need a 5+, and on a TWM need a 4+, wich is significantly better than a rerolling 6 to wound... against what? Nurgle Daemon Princes, Nurgle Bikers, and Wraithgaurd?

 

Oh... nidz... yeah. Ouch.

 

I think Id go with a Belt of Russ, Bolt Pistol, Frostblade, and Wolf Tail Talisman... and probly saga of the wolfkin for his pack of 15 buddies to hit at I 5.

[Wildfire]

Urk! You're right, I was thinking T8, not T6. I.e. wraithlords.

[Ominous Anonymous]

Statically, a 5+ with a reroll has a better chance of happening than a 4+, which is why people prefer Wolf Claws

[pucadubh]

Watch out for the 2x Fenrisian Wolves for extra wounds. 2x FW pulls your T down to 4 due to the multiple toughness rule for shooting wound rolls however taking only 1 confers T5 onto the FW :lol: . CC all are independant anyway.

[Ominous Anonymous]

If you're by yourself, sure. But in a squad of TWC you would use majority toughness of 5 and can assign the wounds afterwards to the wolves.

[Lord Ragnarok]

Canis v/s WL...

I think we are trying to compare two IC's with much different battlefield roles.

 

I see Canis as a slaughterer of cheap troops. I also think he works best fenrisians attacking weak troops or support units. You would have to ensure he is not up against anything with high strength power weapon or numerous power weapon attacks (like the dummy move in the WD Battle Report where he managed to be in combat with a bunch of Blood Letters (rolls eyes)).

 

A WL on T.Wolf I see as an excellent killer of troops, especially MEQ's, but maybe not better than Canis in going after horde troops. Also I see him able to go against MC's and IC's toe to toe.

 

I think a good bet would to field both.

[Quantus]

I think a good bet would to field both.

 

I need to get some TWC converted first, and then I may try a list with TWC and a thunderlord, Canis and a full pack of wolves, gray hunters in rhino/razorback, and then armor to back them up.