God Squad Complex

[Wildfire]

You speak as if the person running the super unit does not know what they are doing. Yes one Vindicator shot can screw up your day if you let them. But a good player running Ragnar should know how to counter stuff like that and not be lulled into trap assaults.

 

I run Ragnar in a Rhino, I also have two Rhinos with Grey Hunters who go up with him. Besides that I run one drop pod with a GH to buy them the time they need to get across the field.

 

It's less a matter of a deathstar player lacking skill, and more a limit of your tactical options. There's only so much you can do with one squad, no matter how good you are.

 

I don't know your play style or opponents, but one drop pod of GH in my face will not distract me from the more important job of dealing with a deathstar. That's if I'm even afraid of your deathstar at all. My mech eldar would love to see that kind of deathstar. It's almost completely ignorable.

[Athalus]

Definitely gotta give your death star some reach (like those nob bikers, or w/e). The TWM is a good way to do this, or just transport it. I don't think, however, that in the end we can match the value of deathstars that other armies can put out. That being the case, its definitely fun to make unique units, just don't completely rely on them to see the day through, and make sure to support the hell out of em =). And of course, squeeze every pt out of them so they are as efficient as can be.

[Quillen]

Ok here is my squads. Sqauds you have more then one. But one is the death machine. The others hold stuff and support it.

 

 

Ragnar Blackmane

Wolf Priest

2 WG in Termy armor with Lighting claws and Cyclone missile launchers.

2 WG in Termy Armor with Combi Melta and Power Fists. (In case of big bugs or tanks)

3 WG in power Armor with bolt pistols and power swords.

3 WG in power Armor with bolt pistols and CCW. (small meat sheild to keep the others going)

Land Raider Crusader Multi Melta and Extra armor

-this is the death squad. It always gets it's points back. Always and usually a bit more. And if it dies no big deal cause the rest of the list wins out the day. I can sometimes get 3 squads in a charge. This takes the place of my old Blood Claw pack with a heroe in a Crusader. More expensive by far, but it pwns. You move farward and then pour out where you can do the worst damage. Then they have to charge you if not the pack kills a ton in shooting and charges what ever is left. It has to be countered and you eat what ever they throw at you as you always have Ferosious attack.

 

2 Grey hunter packs.

Melta gun and plasma gun

Plasma Pistol and Power weapon

MotW on one guy

All in a Rhino.

Standard bad ass GH pack. Can kill tanks and marines with ease. Weak to hordes.

 

Long Fangs with all Missile Launchers

 

Preditor Destructor and second Pred if I drop the Wolf Preist(which I have done a couple of times)

 

I eats jump squads and standard marine lists. I was sprised the Missile Launchers have done as well as they have. I hate Long Fang packs, but they are cheaper now and they usually make their points back while Ragnar draws all the fire. The Pred is their for horde lists to thin them a little. I do not even give it extra armor cause people target the LR long before the tank. And when you run 2 of them they pick mods and broods appart pretty quick.

 

This list has won a ton of games and they know what I am running and they have tried every trick they could think of to kill it. Worst was 6 Dreads in a list. I went ahead and charges Ragnar into 4 of them at a go. Figured if they were clumped like that I would tie them up too and the fists would finish them while the rest of my army killed his troops. Well, Ragnar died turn 2 to a fist insta squishing him. But they drestoyed 3 dread and had 2 immoblised and armless and one armless and they were still there at the end. Well 3 Terminators were. lol Stupid Ven dreads kept making me reroll and I was stunning them.

 

Best game: I tabled a guy in turn 3. He charged me with a Jump Squad with a heroes (captain and chaplin) attached, and it was all down hill for him from there. Turn 3 he had nothing left. Ragnar had 16 attacks on turn 3. lol He killed a tactical squad all by himself. The Wolf Gaurds killed a second squad on thier own and the Long Fangs popped a Pred and a Rhino. Poof game over.

 

This list has not been beaten yet in like 12 games. It had a draw but no loses yet. Which is why I am considering making it my list for Feb. But I need to try it out against more people. I have only fought the same 4 guys with another one giving them advice along the way. They all agree it's the best one I have had for a long time. But I bought 11 drop pods on ebay acidentally and I think i should do something with them. lol

[Wildfire]

I have only fought the same 4 guys with another one giving them advice along the way.

 

I think this is your main problem. What do these 4 opponents play? I'd be willing to bed you don't face much air mech (IG, Eldar, and to some degree Tau). Flying circus is still pretty popular in tourneys, from what I hear.

[Oldenhaller]

I have a deathstar unit in my mentor's list...it's there because I like to play the army for fun. 5 vanguard with jumppacks and storm shields, 4 thunderhammers and a relic blade are silly pricey and never get thier points back. They do shock the hell out of my opponent and when thy come down near pedro they're A4 on the charge which is great. Some times they wreck things other times they're useless (best was 4 dying to an exploding drop pod on the turn they cme down and assaulted it *rolls eyes*). This sort of squad is very all or nothing and while in some ganes it will roll your opponent's line and cause no end of havok more often than not they'll be utterly inefectual and just be a waste of points. So long as you're prepared forthis then you're golden...just don't take them to anything like a competative tourney! :)

 

Hope this helps

 

~O

[Quillen]

One is IG player, Other a fellow Wolf, another is all sortas of marines, and last is Blood Angels. The 5th guy is orks but we have had few games of late. It beat him thou. Still ork lists give me trouble. So much cannon fodder everywhere. I also have na Eldar list myself. No Tau players here thou. I am a bit worried about hammerheads. Other then that I am not all that worried.

[HERO]

I don't think this will work. People will know what's going to be in that Raider and will do everything to stop it.

 

For Ragnar, it's better to just take 5x WGT with 4x WC and 1x CF. Cheaper, does a good job at killing things, and isn't really a deathstar. You might also want CbM on all of them :)

[brotherkaelen]

Ok, I'm interested in the Bloodclaws unit that keeps getting mentioned, but isn't it kind of a waste since you don't get all the bonus attacks from Ragnar?

 

And how is the cost lower when you're taking five more men plus an extra IC?

 

I do like the damage output though...and its always more fun to smash face with a troop unit than with elites...just gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.

[ORKILL]

Ok, I'm interested in the Bloodclaws unit that keeps getting mentioned, but isn't it kind of a waste since you don't get all the bonus attacks from Ragnar?

 

And how is the cost lower when you're taking five more men plus an extra IC?

 

I do like the damage output though...and its always more fun to smash face with a troop unit than with elites...just gives me a warm fuzzy feeling.

 

 

If you take Logan as well, the deathstar is a troops choice.

[Spazmonkey]

I am going to Try Ragnar in my current list.

 

Im going very simple.

Ragnar in a Rhino/razorback with 5 greyhunters. Thats it.

 

I have a crusader full of termi's, DP with a dread, plus the rest of my list (long fangs, grey hunters ) to worry my oppoenent as well.

 

Way I look at it is Ragnar with 5 grey hunters is still going to mop up a tac squad in 1-2 rounds anyway,

I like to spread the points around and have several nasty units for my opponent to worry about.

[Redbaron997]

Id rather put him with a Squad of Grey Hunters myself for the following reasons.

 

1. Cheaper

2. Scoring

3. Ragnar can benefit from the Wolf Standard once a game

4. Ragnar + GH is already a bunch of CC ability that can crack most threats on one turn.

5. They can rapid fire bolters if not in assault range

6. 2 Melta Guns

 

Put them in a LRR with a Wolf Guard with Thunder Hammer for insurance and spearhead them right at the enemy.

[SamaNagol]

A good player wouldn't waste their time putting more than 3 special CCWs in a unit with a special character in.

 

Naked Wolf Guard are incredibly good value though. Shame they aren't scoring unless you spend just shy of 300pts on an HQ.

[Wildfire]

One is IG player, Other a fellow Wolf, another is all sortas of marines, and last is Blood Angels. The 5th guy is orks but we have had few games of late. It beat him thou. Still ork lists give me trouble. So much cannon fodder everywhere. I also have na Eldar list myself. No Tau players here thou. I am a bit worried about hammerheads. Other then that I am not all that worried.

 

That's about what I thought. Your "god" unit is very tooled to beat powered armor lists, particularily assualt-oriented lists. I think you'll have trouble vs. hordes or air cav with it.

[ORKILL]

A good player wouldn't waste their time putting more than 3 special CCWs in a unit with a special character in.

 

Naked Wolf Guard are incredibly good value though. Shame they aren't scoring unless you spend just shy of 300pts on an HQ.

 

That's a pretty arrogant statement. The point of building this unit is to counter other deathstar units not to build the most cost effective unit. To say one is not a good player simply for wasting their time with this unit is ludicrous. How many GT level tournaments have you won or even placed in or what qualifies you to judge others abilities?

[Spazmonkey]

I wonder what a uit consisting of Ragnar, Arjac and say 5 grey hunters could do....

[Logain the Ranger]

You speak as if the person running the super unit does not know what they are doing. Yes one Vindicator shot can screw up your day if you let them. But a good player running Ragnar should know how to counter stuff like that and not be lulled into trap assaults.

 

I run Ragnar in a Rhino, I also have two Rhinos with Grey Hunters who go up with him. Besides that I run one drop pod with a GH to buy them the time they need to get across the field.

No, Its nothing to do with knowing what theyre doing tactically or not. Its the simple fact that theyre right- that many frostblade attacks will wipe just about anything in the game out in one go. Leaving you open to ALOT of shooting, wtih the points the enemy didnt use in a hammer unit.

 

Leaving your squad open to a tau battle line, or hell even another wolf players shooting is a bad idea, and theres pretty much no way to NOT do that with this unit, save sheer dumb luck.

 

Which is why I run them in a Rhino. Playing Blod Angels has given me quite the know how of using assaulters and Rhinos. Also I too run 30 Grey Hunters base 20 in Rhinos 10 in a Drop Pod. There is an easy way to avoid things like that. It's called multi-charging and if they aren't close enough for that flanking maneuvers. If they want to rapid fire that's a 12 inch charge range for me. Ragnar by himself can massacre any Tau battleline. Wolves not so much. Remember we still have 3+ armor saves.

[Logain the Ranger]

A good player wouldn't waste their time putting more than 3 special CCWs in a unit with a special character in.

 

Naked Wolf Guard are incredibly good value though. Shame they aren't scoring unless you spend just shy of 300pts on an HQ.

 

It depends on the character.

[Grey Mage]

You speak as if the person running the super unit does not know what they are doing. Yes one Vindicator shot can screw up your day if you let them. But a good player running Ragnar should know how to counter stuff like that and not be lulled into trap assaults.

 

I run Ragnar in a Rhino, I also have two Rhinos with Grey Hunters who go up with him. Besides that I run one drop pod with a GH to buy them the time they need to get across the field.

No, Its nothing to do with knowing what theyre doing tactically or not. Its the simple fact that theyre right- that many frostblade attacks will wipe just about anything in the game out in one go. Leaving you open to ALOT of shooting, wtih the points the enemy didnt use in a hammer unit.

 

Leaving your squad open to a tau battle line, or hell even another wolf players shooting is a bad idea, and theres pretty much no way to NOT do that with this unit, save sheer dumb luck.

 

Which is why I run them in a Rhino. Playing Blod Angels has given me quite the know how of using assaulters and Rhinos. Also I too run 30 Grey Hunters base 20 in Rhinos 10 in a Drop Pod. There is an easy way to avoid things like that. It's called multi-charging and if they aren't close enough for that flanking maneuvers. If they want to rapid fire that's a 12 inch charge range for me. Ragnar by himself can massacre any Tau battleline. Wolves not so much. Remember we still have 3+ armor saves.

Im thinking more like a popped rhino followed by guided dark reapers. *shrugs* But if we get into "what if this" conversations well be here for months with nothing determined.

 

Suffice it to say I dont think spending over 300pts on any units is ever a good idea, unless thats including an HQ.... and Im leery of taking any combination of units over 550pts.

[Quillen]

I use to play in a ton of tournies and I always did really well. Hall of heroes or RogueTrader. So I have a bit of confidence in my abilities.

 

I have built a ton of lists in the past and will build more in the future. This is one I built after the new dex came out and once again it's only drawn once and won all the others.

 

I ran a drop pod last week but it only won 1 battle and tied a second. And a pod list is do or die. There is no inbetween ground.

 

So I stand with what I have said and back this kind of list could win.

 

We are heading back into heroe hammer again, and heroes will do most of the killing again. Just like in Second edition.

[SamaNagol]

A good player does not counter a hammer with another hammer

[Kjarl Bluetooth]

+2 Attacks for each Blood Claw

 

Bear in mind that it's a minimum of 2 - Blood Claws would get either 2 or 3 extra attacks.

 

Before the FAQ Blood Claws were always a poor choice to run with Ragnar as his effect could actually reduce them to just +1 attack. Now the choice is a little easier to make.

 

 

I personally like the idea of running Ragnar with a WP plus 5 WG in TDA armed with a Pair of WCs and Meltabombs mounted in a Redeemer. The WG get between 4-6 S5 I5 attacks each and with re-rolls to hits and wounds they should be converting most of those to kills.

[Logain the Ranger]

You speak as if the person running the super unit does not know what they are doing. Yes one Vindicator shot can screw up your day if you let them. But a good player running Ragnar should know how to counter stuff like that and not be lulled into trap assaults.

 

I run Ragnar in a Rhino, I also have two Rhinos with Grey Hunters who go up with him. Besides that I run one drop pod with a GH to buy them the time they need to get across the field.

No, Its nothing to do with knowing what theyre doing tactically or not. Its the simple fact that theyre right- that many frostblade attacks will wipe just about anything in the game out in one go. Leaving you open to ALOT of shooting, wtih the points the enemy didnt use in a hammer unit.

 

Leaving your squad open to a tau battle line, or hell even another wolf players shooting is a bad idea, and theres pretty much no way to NOT do that with this unit, save sheer dumb luck.

 

Which is why I run them in a Rhino. Playing Blod Angels has given me quite the know how of using assaulters and Rhinos. Also I too run 30 Grey Hunters base 20 in Rhinos 10 in a Drop Pod. There is an easy way to avoid things like that. It's called multi-charging and if they aren't close enough for that flanking maneuvers. If they want to rapid fire that's a 12 inch charge range for me. Ragnar by himself can massacre any Tau battleline. Wolves not so much. Remember we still have 3+ armor saves.

Im thinking more like a popped rhino followed by guided dark reapers. *shrugs* But if we get into "what if this" conversations well be here for months with nothing determined.

 

Suffice it to say I dont think spending over 300pts on any units is ever a good idea, unless thats including an HQ.... and Im leery of taking any combination of units over 550pts.

 

I myself wouldn't use a unit like this in a tourney because like you said before about it. But in fun games I love it.

[brotherkaelen]

A good player does not counter a hammer with another hammer

 

I like the mentality, but the truth is that a good player, as with a good general, does what works. Limiting your options before even considering possible advantages limits yourself to only rehashing the same tactics that have been tried a million times before. Sometimes the only answer to a hammer is a bigger hammer, The cold war didn't happen by coincidence. But anyways, we digress...

 

How is it that a wolfpriest confers rerolls? I thought that he gave preferred enemy, which is a 3+ to hit right?

 

And also, this thread was mostly supposed to be comparisons with other high damage units. I'm more interested in hearing if you have highly successful cc units for a lower cost, keeping in mind I want them in a land raider.

 

My main concerns are ork nobz and ss termies, as they are the hardest things I know of to kill and have an irritating way of living when I don't want them to.

[ORKILL]

A good player does not counter a hammer with another hammer

 

 

No, you meet a hammer with a bigger hammer and so on.

 

Thanks for the qualifications, it makes your argument so much stronger. :)

 

 

A good player does not counter a hammer with another hammer

 

I like the mentality, but the truth is that a good player, as with a good general, does what works. Limiting your options before even considering possible advantages limits yourself to only rehashing the same tactics that have been tried a million times before. Sometimes the only answer to a hammer is a bigger hammer, The cold war didn't happen by coincidence. But anyways, we digress...

 

How is it that a wolfpriest confers rerolls? I thought that he gave preferred enemy, which is a 3+ to hit right?

 

And also, this thread was mostly supposed to be comparisons with other high damage units. I'm more interested in hearing if you have highly successful cc units for a lower cost, keeping in mind I want them in a land raider.

 

My main concerns are ork nobz and ss termies, as they are the hardest things I know of to kill and have an irritating way of living when I don't want them to.

 

 

That was in 4th Ed. PE grants a reroll to hit now.

[SamaNagol]

To disable a Hammer unit you do not smash it with a bigger hammer. You strip away it's benefits to the point it becomes a grossly over priced average unit. If that's a huge disgusting close combat unit of doom then you feed it speed bumps so it eats them in a turn and then gets shot to pieces the next turn.

 

Did playing against Necron armies with C'Tan and Monoliths teach you nothing of strategies? When did you ever win by charging headlong into a C'Tan in close combat, or focusing all your lovely big instant kill weaponry into the 'lith?