Melta madneess

[the jeske]

It is increasingly tiresome to see certain units again and again on the table top, and thus some 'encouragement' is required to keep armies diverse and fresh.

and how does that happen . if your in an enviroment that punishes people for taking normal geared squads , people dont use them . armies with build in options [like atsknf for sm or combat squads ] got it better , when armies that need to take the extra options to stay playable cant [what sucks for them because it means if they play normal lists they wont win because of composition and if they play "by the rules" they get their asses handed to them] . it is a system that promotes one army . space marines , because without any handicap they can go double the number of scoring units [and targets what with smaller number of geared units they are harder to kill both by shoting and hth] or play with 10 man squads that are hard to kill .

 

 

Some amount of army list regulation is necessary to preserve army 'intent'

you want to tell me that elysian drop troopers dont exists[the IG cav build] or that cadia isnt full of regiments of karskin[the vet hvy builds]?

[Grey Mage]

I have to agree with Jeske- if you think a build is to present, then learn some tactics and kick its arse to kingdom come and back, dont restrict it.

 

Prove that the build isnt all powerful, force your opponent to change his tactics to make his own list work, thats how you shake up the metagame. Comp scores that punish builds based on one players point of veiw are just a cop-out, and incredibly rude at that.

[plaguewolf]

http://www.svenska40k.se/forum/download/file.php?id=154

 

I think this is the comp list he is talking about

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

I'd also like to see this list that punishes players for taking certain gear and vehicles.

 

i am very sick and tired of seing imperial guard armies without infantry platoons in them...maybe a cap on the amount of veteran units you can take, say 1-2 per platoon?

 

WLK

 

I think you are saying two things:

 

1. Some amount of army list regulation is necessary to preserve army 'intent' (as in the spirit of the army it is supposed to represent. ie, Imperial Guard is about huge piles of men with lasguns and tanks, orks are about tons o' boyz, etc)

2. It is increasingly tiresome to see certain units again and again on the table top, and thus some 'encouragement' is required to keep armies diverse and fresh.

 

Am I right in these two assertions? If no, could you clarify what you mean?

 

yea, that seems close enough to my intent.

 

@GM: i do kick its ass. it doesnt make the game any less boring. or for a player like me, who cares more for the background of the game and less so for the annihilation of my opponent and his pride, seeing such boring guard builds is simular to nails on a chalkboard.

 

@thejeske: no, i wont tell any player that certain builds exist. but when i see everyone monkeying the same idea, SOMETHING has to be done to remind players that the imperial guard is about MEN, ork waaaaghs are about ork boyz, yadda yadda yadda. another perfect example: i havent seen guardians in a eldar army in a long time, atleast in the last 1 1/2 yr. why? cause the aspect warriors are much better for very little more. the "backbone of the eldar" has become the weird uncle that nobody sees except for faimly reunions.

 

WLK

[Quillen]

A few years back in the South east we had a rule. In the Rogue Trader games you needed 40% in you troops choices. Which is no big deal. As grey hunters for us rock. I liked that little rule making sure people do not take all heavy and elites with 2 min inf squads there to just be the 2 squads you have to take.

 

Then I look at this stupid system of punishing people for playing their codex and I realize why they get taxed more then 50% of their income. Wake up. They are running you choices and choice is good. Different lists are good. These lists that say having a all the options a squad could have is retarding your play.

 

Who thought this crap up? I read the old one for the 3rd edition codex and realised I would not be legal in their tourny as I could not field a standard wolf list. All the negatives. You should make a new list and hand it to the person that thought this up. It would be like this

 

1. Did you make up a silly rule handicapping all lists and tring to act tlike this in come way balances play? If so, you lose the game of life. -the rest of your life. Find the closest bridge and leap from it. lol

[Wildfire]

Wow, that's... bizarre. I've never heard of such a comp style. I really don't know what to tell you.

[Natanael]

@ Plaugewolf: Yeh, that's the comp system. Forgot to post the link :P I'm based in Lund, playing in Malmö.

 

The system is made by the most frequent players and "tournament-fixers" in sweden. I know most ppl outside of sweden think it is crap, and the only thing it does, in my opiniion, is that is makes it possible to play crappy, but fluffy, armies and still have a shot at winning because the comp system balances up your points in tournaments.

 

example: I had a game against a friends flying WH. He had maximum comp (like 98 or something) and I had about 35. I tabled him in turn 5, and took 2 out of 3 objectives. Still he won the game, since he comp differance gave him like +15 battle points. Så the end score was 19-22 in his favor.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

thats a bit extreme...

 

WLK

[Grey Mage]

@GM: i do kick its ass. it doesnt make the game any less boring. or for a player like me, who cares more for the background of the game and less so for the annihilation of my opponent and his pride, seeing such boring guard builds is simular to nails on a chalkboard.

 

@thejeske: no, i wont tell any player that certain builds exist. but when i see everyone monkeying the same idea, SOMETHING has to be done to remind players that the imperial guard is about MEN, ork waaaaghs are about ork boyz, yadda yadda yadda. another perfect example: i havent seen guardians in a eldar army in a long time, atleast in the last 1 1/2 yr. why? cause the aspect warriors are much better for very little more. the "backbone of the eldar" has become the weird uncle that nobody sees except for faimly reunions.

 

WLK

1) Perhaps Im not understanding you? What do you mean by veteran heavy builds, and how are they boring? Perhaps Im not getting the jist. Because frankly I dont see how veterans are any less men than platoons are.

 

2) Ive always hated taking gaurdians as troops- not for the stats, but because frankly who the heck sends 3000 year old gardners out to fight tyranids? Its retarded, and even in the old eldar codex was stated as being a last resort. Unless Im playing apocalypse, that last resort hasnt hit. I still see a couple people with eldar who take them, and frankly I think outside Ulthwé its one of the most unfluffy lists out there.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

by veteran heavy i mean: usually 4 vet squads, 3 special weapons and then heavy weapon in a chimera back by 3-5 leman russ variants.

and it isnt "any less men" than platoons, except for the fact the imperial guard is (or was) supposed to be the massive hammer of the emperor, the grunts, dog soldiers, all that jazz.

its sad because my wolves are usually within 10 or so models of the guard list model count wise.

 

very boring to play against and it seems to be the only thing guard players in my neck of the woods field.

 

WLK

[SamaNagol]

In my book meltas are made for Wolf Scouts and almost nothing else.

 

I've got that book. It's the 3rd edition codex. ;)

[Natanael]

In my book meltas are made for Wolf Scouts and almost nothing else.

 

I've got that book. It's the 3rd edition codex. ;)

 

Maybe so ;) I have sold my 3rd ed. codex :(

[Thunderpup]

http://www.svenska40k.se/forum/download/file.php?id=154

 

I think this is the comp list he is talking about

 

 

Ew! I don't like that. If my math is right i'd get a Comp score of... Zero. ;)

 

Edit: OIC that's for a 1500 list. Course i wouldn't have thought 500pts would make THAT much of a difference.

[Death Wolf]

by veteran heavy i mean: usually 4 vet squads, 3 special weapons and then heavy weapon in a chimera back by 3-5 leman russ variants.

and it isnt "any less men" than platoons, except for the fact the imperial guard is (or was) supposed to be the massive hammer of the emperor, the grunts, dog soldiers, all that jazz.

its sad because my wolves are usually within 10 or so models of the guard list model count wise.

 

very boring to play against and it seems to be the only thing guard players in my neck of the woods field.

 

WLK

 

Only 1 person in my area plays IG WLK, fortunatley for players like me who love fluff, he frequently runs massive infantry platoons and as many Leman Russ' as we will let him field! Strangely enough it has become hammer type of army, its not pretty, its not fast, but god damnit if that thing hits you (by which i mean gets into rapid fire range), you are screwed!

[Natanael]

Well, it is kind of hard not go get a really low score. I've stopped using WGs in squads, banners and PWs in squads, for example. It limits my options quite a lot, even tough I learn to play a little more strategicly (sp?) and not just trust that every squad can do everything well.

[Death Wolf]

So is it good to get a high score or low score with that comp list?

[SamaNagol]

lol@Daemonhunters getting their comp score brought down for taking storm shields. Anyone who is man enough to try and decipher the rules for those things in their 'dex gets a shake of my hand.

[Natanael]

@ Death Wolf: You want a high score

@SamaNagol: yeah, well, I don't say that it's a good system ;)

[SamaNagol]

Can you explain the vehicle section at the end of every list?

 

vechiles 4-6 etc etc? Is that an ADDITIONAL penalty for having lots of vehicles in your list? On top of the penalty for taking the vehicles in the first place?

[Natanael]

Yep, you're spot on. That is one of the reasons you don't see many mech lists around here, maybe.

[Thunderpup]

Amazing that they've desided that taking anything but infantry in a Space Wolf Army is unfluffy from a composition stand point.... I mean, what sort of tactics are you supposed to use? Run down the board and hope you can get into close combat before you get shot to death by guard and tau players? or Maybe you can run from the Orks and Tyranids while you try to rapid fire them? Glad we don't have anything that crazy where I play.

[Natanael]

Well, it is not intended to play your army with comp 100. About 50 is considered to be a good, balanced, army and as such you can get a few rhinos or something in. You just can't have alot of it :huh: And of course they don't take the rest of the army into account. An Iron Priest on TWM with cyberwolves just gives you -2 comp, and that unit has a lot of killing power with a wolfkin-saga in the army.

[Wildfire]

Unfortunately, really what that system does is produce unbalanced tourney results, where the armies with the best basic troop units have the best comp. Sad. TBH, I don't think I'd play much, if I lived in Sweden. Not with those rules.

[Simo429]

my problem at the moment is getting these meltas and flamers that i want in my army

i just dont have enough

[Natanael]

Unfortunately, really what that system does is produce unbalanced tourney results, where the armies with the best basic troop units have the best comp. Sad. TBH, I don't think I'd play much, if I lived in Sweden. Not with those rules.

 

Yep, indeed. I like to play, however, and have to obey the rules in tourneys. In friendly games we don't play with this crap, but yeah. Either way it effects my army lists quite much.

 

But maybe all 40K-players in sweden should just move to england. I would do it :)