Devs/Havocs still useful?

[minigun762]

How many people still get good results with their heavy weapon Marines?

 

I see 2 big problems with them right now

1) They are static in a game that pushes you to be mobile

2) They aren't armor so they do little to increase the target saturation of your (assumed) mechanized list

 

However their durability is usually much better then a vehicle and they are a great way to take a high density of heavy weapons in a single package.

[Arikel]

I think it depends a lot on initial placement. A pack of devastators on the top of a large ruin or building that has a good view of the field with missile launchers and lascannons will lay down the hurt from turn one onwards. If they get stuck moving around they don't perform so well.

[Thantoes]

I love my devs and use them as often as I can. Putting a 10 man unit into some cover gives a very robust unit that can dish out the pain. I tend to favour plasma with a mix of lascannons or Ml depending on my list and they generally perform very well.

[Justicar Valius]

It is all in the placement, I have faced a pack of devestators (all missile launchers) on top of a hill... :D it was so easy to kill

 

On top of a 3 story building with commanding view and a 5+ cover save from the AP1/AP2 weaponary I had it stayed unharmed all game, blew up a rhino and imobilized a raider as well as damaging loads of grey knights and IST

[Bartali]

I think it depends a lot on initial placement. A pack of devastators on the top of a large ruin or building that has a good view of the field with missile launchers and lascannons will lay down the hurt from turn one onwards. If they get stuck moving around they don't perform so well.

 

As long as it's not Dawn of War deployment :D

[Koremu]

They are great in scenarios where you know you will be defending, especially if you know that there will be fortifications available for their use (or at least Ruins and a Techmarine), and where they will count as scoring.

 

They are not so great for a number of reasons, Dawn of War amongst them, in games using randomised missions.

 

There are easier and generally cheaper ways of getting equivalent firepower with increased survivability or mobility in a SM army.

 

Sadly Devastators Heavy Weapons are overpriced. Long Fangs are much better (the Signum is lacklustre and should have the split fire rule, IMO). I'm not so sure about Havocs as I don't play Traitors.

[Ming]

I see great value in them. Weigh out a dev squad with 4 HBs or 4 MLs vs an equivalent predator, and you can see the value. Placement is part of understanding why and where you use them. They need to be protected while they work.

 

I would not do a LC or PC dev squad, as the codex designers decided that was the most expensive way to get those weapons, may as well have a tri-las pred in that case.

 

Striving for efficient weaponry purchasing is a halmark of 3rd Company...

[ShinyRhino]

I phased out my Devastaors a long time ago, but am thinking of bringing them back. i run a combined Mech/Biker list, and I lack for long-range heavy firepower. One static unit in my deployment zone won't kill me, so I'm thinking a quad-missile Dev squad will be nice. Deploy them on separate leevls of a ruin for maximum survivability against the things that will waste more than one at a time (plasma cannons, battle cannons, other blast or pieplate weapons).

The ability to combat squad is also nice for when you're not worried about killpoints. It's the poor man's Fire Control.

[Gothical]

I like to play mine in the least efficient manner possible (/sarcasm...ish):

 

5-man unit, 3x Melta, Razorback. x2.

 

In normal games they can either start in a good position and effectively block the enemy armour/mech advancing down one flank (as most deployments leave you 24"-36" apart these days) which funnels the opponent onto my expensive Command Squad and a couple of Tacticals.

 

In games on larger boards, or against foes that only advance 6+D6" a turn (so non-winged Monsters) then I don't mind "wasting" a turn or two of firepower to get into a position to prevent the beastie from advancing (with the idea of killing it, obviously). 6 Multi-Meltas acts as a great deterrent.

 

Sometimes I'll swap one for a Missile Launcher, but that's not so common these days - the lack of being able to hit people at range offset by taking Land Speeders (Tornado or Typhoon, with a Predator in addition to the former), and the Tacticals carry weapons more suited to being mobile (either Meltagun/Plas Cannon or Plasma Gun/[Missile or H.Bolter]).

 

What makes them truly extortionate is giving the Sarge a power weapon :P But I think it looks good, so efficiency be damned.

[minigun762]

I originally asked because I'm feeling the need to have some kind of firebase and originally I leaned towards Predators because of how cheap they are but they're just as static as Dev/Havocks and while cheaper, are easier to stun/kill.

 

I think that Missiles or Autocannons are the best choices. Both are able to multi-task well and can hit from 48" out. They are also alot cheaper then the other options. Plus with IG and the new Tyranids, it seems very important to be able to generate alot of high S shots at long range.

[Koremu]

I originally asked because I'm feeling the need to have some kind of firebase and originally I leaned towards Predators because of how cheap they are but they're just as static as Dev/Havocks and while cheaper, are easier to stun/kill.

 

I think that Missiles or Autocannons are the best choices. Both are able to multi-task well and can hit from 48" out. They are also alot cheaper then the other options. Plus with IG and the new Tyranids, it seems very important to be able to generate alot of high S shots at long range.

Land Speeder Typhoon.

[minigun762]

Unclear post.

Land Speeder Typhoon.

 

I'd love to steal one, but my damn spiky Chaos armor won't fit in the seat.

 

 

meaning I was looking for an option open to Chaos :)

[Koremu]

That's what you get for turning traitor. Without the machine god anti-grav just does not work.

 

Doesn't the demon-engine thing have decent firepower and mobility? Failing that it's psycho-dreads for you.

[minigun762]

Doesn't the demon-engine thing have decent firepower and mobility? Failing that it's psycho-dreads for you.

 

Defilers? Yeah they're basically a Dread with a Battlecannon attached. It does well for anti-horde but it doesn't have the volume of shots needed to kill the annoying things like Vendettas or Chimera spamming.

 

As for Dreads... well lets just say we'd LOVE the chance to be able to field a sane RifleDread. Though I guess we get Oblits which kinda makes up for it.

[Koremu]

What's the range on the chaos terminator AC?

[minigun762]

What's the range on the chaos terminator AC?

 

36" and its TL'd. Not a bad idea but it usually conflicts with Termicide squads that do a similar job of tank busting and are cheaper.

[MasterOfDisaster]

With Space Marines, i can't live without my 4 plas cannons. The only time i won't take them is if i'm playing cityfight with alot of tall buildings blocking line of sight (that's never fun T_T) With my chaos, i run a pretty heavy combat army so there's no need for me to take them, but i've seen khorne devestators do some nasty work with las. (lol many people have riduculed them untill they get pwned in combat)

[Brother_Fatiswon]

I originally asked because I'm feeling the need to have some kind of firebase and originally I leaned towards Predators because of how cheap they are but they're just as static as Dev/Havocks and while cheaper, are easier to stun/kill.

 

I think that Missiles or Autocannons are the best choices. Both are able to multi-task well and can hit from 48" out. They are also alot cheaper then the other options. Plus with IG and the new Tyranids, it seems very important to be able to generate alot of high S shots at long range.

 

to weight in on the side of tanks over Manned Heavy weapon units, Dont forget, that if the action gets to close to your firebase... Tank shocking can be used to push a line or move an Assault squad that lurking for you, within Counter charging from some other unit in your forces to force a tie up.

 

Another armor heavy army i used to use with tanks, was 3 Predator with no up grades. Used in a moving curtin of AV13, with 2 Razor backs, (from the 2 requced Troops units) to play side armor guard for the "Curtin" followed by 20 Assault marines and 10 Vet vanguard w/JP + Jump pack'd HQ's

[liberty790]

With Space Marines, i can't live without my 4 plas cannons. The only time i won't take them is if i'm playing cityfight with alot of tall buildings blocking line of sight (that's never fun T_T) With my chaos, i run a pretty heavy combat army so there's no need for me to take them, but i've seen khorne devestators do some nasty work with las. (lol many people have riduculed them untill they get pwned in combat)

 

 

+1 with the 4xPlasma Devastators. Its rare I field an army without at least one squad of 4x plasma devastators. Yes, its expensive, and yes sometimes they blow themselves up. But in the end, much more often than not, they kill many times more their own points worth of enemy. And if they do blow themselves up, more blood for the blood god, right?

[Khorneeq]

Hi,

I'm bit curious Brother_Fatiswon how do You manage to drive this formation. Maybe just me and my friends are playing on dense terrain tables, but it looks really tricky for me to employ this tactic.

Any secrets? ;)

[minigun762]

+1 with the 4xPlasma Devastators. Its rare I field an army without at least one squad of 4x plasma devastators. Yes, its expensive, and yes sometimes they blow themselves up. But in the end, much more often than not, they kill many times more their own points worth of enemy. And if they do blow themselves up, more blood for the blood god, right?

 

I'm curious how helpful that 4th Plasma is. It seems like you have a chance to save a few points by taking a 4th cheaper weapon plus blast weapons don't really make the best use of the BS5 Signum.

 

I was thinking of 3 Plasma and 1 Heavy Bolter. Same range and they're both effective against the same targets (light armor/infantry) but the Heavy Bolter cheapens the squad by 10 points and gives you a little more reliability of hitting a squad (BS5 3 shots > BS5 blast for accuracy).

[CF Scout]

For my Fists, in the past I have fielded Dev squads with 4x plasma cannons.

 

However I am thinking of splitting them into 2 devestator squads.

 

One of which will be 2x Plasma, 2x Heavy Bolter.

 

For the other squad, I am leaning toward 2x PC, 2x ML.

 

Although pricey, running that squad as 2xML, 2xLC is also appealing to me.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Tangent: I miss how in the older Chaos Codex I could field a Unit of six Emperor's Children all with Close Combat weapons, with the AC with a Power Weapon and a Doom Siren, and upgrade the Havoc's meltaguns to also be doom sirens. Oh having them fire 5 flamer templates then assault with the benefit of +1 attack for CCWs, and a higher initiative was so much fun.

 

When I get back around to my Chaos Army I may do a Havok squad with Flamers just for the fun of it.

[minigun762]

For my Fists, in the past I have fielded Dev squads with 4x plasma cannons.

 

However I am thinking of splitting them into 2 devestator squads.

 

One of which will be 2x Plasma, 2x Heavy Bolter.

 

For the other squad, I am leaning toward 2x PC, 2x ML.

 

Although pricey, running that squad as 2xML, 2xLC is also appealing to me.

 

I think all of those could work out well.

I like HB/PC because they should all be aiming at the same target (light armor/infantry) and have matching ranges. It means that you have to get your anti-tank elsewhere though so its not much of a multi-tasker in that regard.

 

PC/ML is probably the purest multi-taskers you can have (outside of 4 ML). Terminators, MEQ, MCs, horde, AV10-12. Basically as long as its not a Land Raider, you can hurt it.

 

ML/LC is quite solid for anti-tank and anti-MC at long range. I think most people like 3ML/1LC to keep the cost down and still have the LC use the BS5 of the Sarge.

[Thornoo1]

I wrote a bit of a tactica here before I saw this topic.

[unbeliever87]

This isn't applicable for Chaos players, but for loyalists I think the best devastator squad is actually Sternguard :devil:

 

5 Devestators with 2 plasma cannons in a rhino comes out at 175 points.

5 Sternguard with 2 plasma cannons in a rhino comes out at 180 points.

 

Both can sit on an objective while shooting from the rhino. Pedro makes the latter unit scoring, and with their special ammunition plus a few combi-meltas they can take on pretty much anything.