Cheesy assault unit?

[Kyznetsovich]

Not sure how legal this is, since it was devised on Army Builder, and not straight from the codex..

 

Captain - Art. armor, power fist, storm shield, digital weapons, space marine bike.

4 command squad marines - power fists, storm shields, space marine bikes.

Apothecary - space marine bike.

 

So, on the charge (should be a charge if they're on bikes) we're looking at 16 str 8 powerfist attacks and the apothecary's 4 chainsword attacks.

 

Then the unit is toughness 5, 3+, 3++, and FNP.

 

 

Is this a sick, twisted, and expensive setup or what?

[I AM THE AWESOME]

Not sure how legal this is, since it was devised on Army Builder, and not straight from the codex..

 

Captain - Art. armor, power fist, storm shield, digital weapons, space marine bike.

4 command squad marines - power fists, storm shields, space marine bikes.

Apothecary - space marine bike.

 

So, on the charge (should be a charge if they're on bikes) we're looking at 16 str 8 powerfist attacks and the apothecary's 4 chainsword attacks.

 

Then the unit is toughness 5, 3+, 3++, and FNP.

 

 

Is this a sick, twisted, and expensive setup or what?

 

If by sick, twisted, and expensive you mean ludicrous, all-eggs-in-one-basket, and expensive, then yes.

[Kyznetsovich]

Yeah, it was like a 555 point unit or something like that. A pretty hefty points investment, as well as expensive to model since you'll need all those various bits that can never be found in one box.

 

Still, I think my friend with the carnifex spam list would probably crap his pants if he saw that unit..

[Koremu]

You don't really need to put Storm Shields on everybody. Most of the time wound allocation means you really only need 2.

 

Likewise, putting Power Fists on everyone makes the whole unit incredibly costly, and actually reduces their effectiveness in certain ways.

 

One of the critical things to consider is "risk". There was a whole thread about this a few months back, but it boils down to the fact that what matters isn't the theoretical effectiveness of the unit at maximum strength, but the likely effectiveness of the unit when it gets to combat. Wound allocation allows you to sacrifice cheaper members of the squad, so tooling everyone up is fairly pointless.

 

In the case of the unit listed, you lose a 78 point model (If my mathematics is correct) every time you take a casualty. With those kinds of numbers, sheer weight of small arms fire is worthwhile the enemy firing at you.

 

Also, any enemy unit striking with sufficient attacks at Init2 or better is going to mess you up - especially in terms of points lost.

[Giga]

That unit costs 565 pts, and it's only 6 guys. All it takes is just a little bad rolling to completely screw up its efficiency.

 

That unit is mildly annoying, at worst. 6 th/ss termies in a LR are far scarier as far as I am concerned. So are a bunch of tanks, dreads, or speeders you could buy for those points.

 

Though I do suppose that there would probably be some people who would call that "cheesy" or whatever.

[ShinyRhino]

Too much wasted potential.

You put a powerfist on an I5 character. Take a relic blade instead and actually USE that I5.

As mentioned, you have no need for stormshields on everyone. Wasted points. Play wound allocation games instead. You can float single, S<8, wounds on your 2+ save Captain for a long time.

[Captain Idaho]

You can Honour Guard with +2 extra members, a Chapter Banner and a relic blade on the Champion for 225pts, who all have power weapons and 2+ saves and all the benefits of a superior killing ability (many many more attacks) and higher WS and attacks on the Champion (with a S6 power weapon to boot).

 

Much more cost efficient and useful really.

[Justicar Valius]

Ever heard of Grey knight terminators? They would eat that squad for breckfast and ask for seconds

 

Infact anything with an abundance of power weapons (and therefore an expensive unit that your squad will need to charge to get it's points back) will wipe the floor with that squad

[glayvin34]

I play against a guy that often fields a similar setup, but usually with only 1 or 2 storm shields and power weapons instead of power fists, which result in more attacks. It's worked well for him in pushing my guys around the board, but it doesn't hold up to a focused effort. My medium-strength squads are no match at all, even a 10-man assault squad will only take out 1 or 2 bikes. But it gets decimated to uselessness if pounded by something strong, like a drop pod full of Sternguard (hellfire rounds to wound and force saves), Marneus charging out of a LR with regular Termies or (and this has been particularly effective) Vulcan charging out of a LR with Assault Termies.

 

For the points it seems you sacrifice too much killiness in exchange for the maneuverability. If used tactically, that can be an advantage, though.

[Sanctjud]

Too Expensive and will fall in the trap of overestimating their defensive values.

[Rohaen]

I was tinkering around with a list the other day that had this general idea, but not as kitted out.

 

That list had Shrike as the "main" captain - so his Fleet rule would be used.

With that though, I was looking at a counts-as-Khan character without a bike, paired with a command squad, in a razorback or something.

 

Shrike would give them fleet, Khan's individual trait would grant hit-and-run and furious charge to his unit, and the Apothecary in the unit would grant feel-no-pain.

 

I think you can get the command squad w/ pwr weapons and company champion OR banner, for just under 200 pts. Khan alone with a generic razorback would bring the overall total for that unit to ~400 pts.

 

Still expensive, but that unit would be brutal in close combat it seems.

[Koremu]

The cheesiest assault unit I've ever fielded was a 10 man (foot) vanguard unit led by counts-as-cassius in a Land Raider.

 

I was attempting to prove a point with regards to Seer Councils with Yriel in them. I succeeded. :D

 

The unit not only killed its points back comfortably, it soaked the majority of fire from a shooty Eldar force for three turns.

 

The main thing that kept this unit running was that when I did lose squad members, I was only losing vanilla or storm shield only models for the most part.

 

Cassius, the Relic Blade Sgt and the THammer guy survived to the end of the battle.

[thade]

I'm with Koremu on marine-melee composition. At least half of my melee squads are ablative wounds, either vanilla vets or storm shield bearers (they have *no other upgrades*). Remember, you don't want to take saves on guys with weapon upgrades unless you have to. When you have half or more of a unit just to soak hits, the power weapons will endure.

 

Not to mention, vanguard vets don't cost that much more than normal assault marines, and get an extra attack....which is *very* nice.

 

Taking upgrades on everybody bloats the cost of the unit a LOT and makes losing even one marine a costly thing. And you will lose marines, storm shields or no. Storm Shields are there to give you a chance to survive an armor-ignoring wound. That's all.

[Brother_Fatiswon]

Not to mention, vanguard vets don't cost that much more than normal assault marines, and get an extra attack....which is *very* nice.

 

??? 190 for 10 AM(s) Vs 325 10 Vvs how do you figure thier are not that much more in points?? and even if i make em even... you know

190 + cost for Power sword, which the VVs already has... ur still have a 120 point gap.... (not picking a fight, i use Vet van guards in a double strike formation. i use 2 5 man Vvs, with jump packs and relic blades, held in Reserve and i like to bring them to table, in turn 4. i'll ether use them as point defence/clean up duty or i'll double team rampaging HQs or static fire bases if they come early in turn 3.

[Koremu]

Not to mention, vanguard vets don't cost that much more than normal assault marines, and get an extra attack....which is *very* nice.

 

??? 190 for 10 AM(s) Vs 325 10 Vvs how do you figure thier are not that much more in points?? and even if i make em even... you know

190 + cost for Power sword, which the VVs already has... ur still have a 120 point gap.... (not picking a fight, i use Vet van guards in a double strike formation. i use 2 5 man Vvs, with jump packs and relic blades, held in Reserve and i like to bring them to table, in turn 4. i'll ether use them as point defence/clean up duty or i'll double team rampaging HQs or static fire bases if they come early in turn 3.

Don't give Vanguard Jump Packs. Heroic Intervention is not worth it.

 

Vanguard go in a Land Raider, or occasionally as the forlorn hope unit in a Pod wave.

 

Sadly, because Command Squads had their Jump Pack option removed, there is no realistic way of fielding Jump Pack Veterans as a unit.

[darrkespur]

Not to mention, vanguard vets don't cost that much more than normal assault marines, and get an extra attack....which is *very* nice.

 

??? 190 for 10 AM(s) Vs 325 10 Vvs how do you figure thier are not that much more in points?? and even if i make em even... you know

190 + cost for Power sword, which the VVs already has... ur still have a 120 point gap.... (not picking a fight, i use Vet van guards in a double strike formation. i use 2 5 man Vvs, with jump packs and relic blades, held in Reserve and i like to bring them to table, in turn 4. i'll ether use them as point defence/clean up duty or i'll double team rampaging HQs or static fire bases if they come early in turn 3.

Don't give Vanguard Jump Packs. Heroic Intervention is not worth it.

 

Vanguard go in a Land Raider, or occasionally as the forlorn hope unit in a Pod wave.

 

Sadly, because Command Squads had their Jump Pack option removed, there is no realistic way of fielding Jump Pack Veterans as a unit.

 

Agree with you, a vanguard squad in a LR with a character can be scary. I'm going for a ten man vanguard with Pedro Kantor - 5 attacks each when charging!