Problem Armies...

[holanes]

Okay been a long time and I forgot my old login so 'post #1' for me, again. Just started playing agin and have about a half dozen sound beatings under my belt with a couple of easy wins. I have to say that the biggest change for my Salamanders since 3e is definitely the speed of the game.

 

As I look around the forums I am seeing people talking about Tau very jokingly and I can see why, unless they are being used by someone that knows how to play and build a list. I'm not sure how many of you have dealt with the whole 'fire knife' list before but it has tabled me twice in about 8 turns total. Here's a basic rundown of the list at 1500:

 

leader in battle suits, plas gun, ML, shield drones

2 bodyguards, PG, ML, shield drones

 

Crisis Squad (X3), Same setup as above

 

Crisis Squad (X2), Same setup

 

Firewarriors (12) in devilfish (3 squads)

 

Pathfinders (8)

 

two broadsides with the move and shoot thingy and shield drones

 

hammerhead

 

What I've found is that all your useful transports get blown up first turn by the heavies and a couple of missile dealies from the tanks and I can't get close enough to hurt anything after that. Essentially, with my salamanders set up to work as a short range shooting and assault force I am getting owned by all these battle suits and railguns. It takes a ridiculous number of shots to actually kill a whole battle suit because of all the drones and they are usually taking some form of cover and/or out of range.

 

Anyone running into something similar and having any luck?

[Koremu]

Bikes. Can't be pinned while Turboing, T5 to counteract S5 pulse rifles, and the enemy won't have enough higher S weaponry to stop you.

 

Throw 30-or so bikes at the Tau line and laugh.

 

Failing that, reserves are your friend.

[chapter master 454]

Hmmm, can't throw land raiders at it...we can certainly throw lysander in so DS some TH/SS terminators with lysander, nothing makes tau scatter faster than DS units. A DP army might also be useful, bolter blitz can serious hurt tau. The crisis suits are a pain but all you do is sit on an objective with a tactical squad and just go to ground within cover near-by. Broadsides and hammer head will get paranoid about the terminators and waste everything on them (and remember to put wounds on lysander first, he is immune to instant death and every terminator you keep alive the more attacks you get. Lysander has 4 wounds anyway!).

 

But regardless, drop pods and Deep striking are your friend. Tau are like stationary necrons, they fire at you en mass to bring you down before you close gap, and if they have to miss a turn of shooting then thats good. It's also good you get the full bolter blitz on the warriors. If they hide, bust the transport with a melta and make sure you make the tau player fear you. Charge when you can, terminators should multi-charge if possible to tie up maximum units. Fail that just spam 60 tactical marines with captain plus some shield rhinos (all they do is to get 12" up field, if they last after that then nice) if you can't get first turn just place them so that you create a refused flank. Broads may be able to move and shoot but They can't stop 6 rhinos. heck take a chapter master just to bomb him, take two just to be a real git. Main thing, Adopt the 'to hell with it' policy, if the tau start firing just keep going. If he can stop 60 power armoured nutters running then thats some dice rolling!

[holanes]

I have considered the drop pod thing and bought one after our first game. I had some serious problems catching anything in close combat with my Termies when we payed so I am now also considering replacing my TH/SS termies with sternguard in a drop pod, and some shooty terminators. I am hoping that combining deep striking, outflanking (with some scouts), and a drop pod or two will cause enough disruption behind the lines to bring down some hurt.

 

I was also thinking about a Librarian with avenger and gate of infinity to help me get to where I need to be to kill them Tau. Any thoughts on that?

[Koremu]

I was also thinking about a Librarian with avenger and gate of infinity to help me get to where I need to be to kill them Tau. Any thoughts on that?

Install Locator Beacons on your pods to guide them in. Also, use Sternguard with your librarian. Choice of AP3 for battlesuits, AP4 for Fire Warriors, and ignore cover for Kroot.

 

Plus Combi-Meltas for killing devilfish... and don't be afraid to assault Fire Warriors if you blew a transport. Sternguard are the same as Assault Marines on the Assault, and you can't be shot at while locked in combat, while you can Gate out in your turn.

[KhorneHunter57x]

Either my math is off (which it usually isn't) or that Tau list is quite a bit more than 1500 points. I estimate it to be closer to 1750 than 1500. You might want to have your Tau opponent check their math.

 

Also, if all of his Elite-slot Battlesuits take drones, they cannot take the fire-2-guns upgrade. This is one of the big problems with Fireknife suits, so make sure your opponent knows that if he takes drones for anyone other than his squad leaders, he can only fire one gun.

Hmmm, can't throw land raiders at it...we can certainly throw lysander in so DS some TH/SS terminators with lysander, nothing makes tau scatter faster than DS units.

With all of the "Fireknife" (Plasma/Autocannon) suits floating around, this is suicide.

 

Mech Tau are one of the toughest armies to face in 5e. Although few people that I have met take them seriously, they are lethal when played right.

 

Those Pathfinders will mess up your plans, from increasing the BS of his own troops to reducing your cover saves, they are a huge force multiplier. Take them out early. If you can outflank with a suicide-Scout squad and catch them out of their Devilfish, then great. Otherwise, try to make them move as Markerlights are Heavy weapons.

 

As has been said, you need to close with him early an get into assault. Maybe try out a cheap 5-man Vanguard Vet squad that Heroically Intervenes for some anti-'Suit goodness?

[Brother Xeones]

Either my math is off (which it usually isn't) or that Tau list is quite a bit more than 1500 points. I estimate it to be closer to 1750 than 1500. You might want to have your Tau opponent check their math.

Yours and mine both. Are you sure this is his list at 1500? From what you've listed, I've constructed the following list. Even while being VERY conservative in my wargear and upgrades choices, I'm still looking at closer to 1750 than 1500.

 

HQ:

Fireknife Shas'El w/ 2x SD

2x 'Vre (MP, PR, MT)

261

 

Elite:

1x Team Leader Fireknife w/ 2x SDs

2x Crisis Fireknife

191

 

1x Team Leader Fireknife w/ 2x SDs

1x Crisis Fireknife

159

 

Troop:

Firewarriors x11 + 'Ui (D-fish w/ DP) 215

Firewarriors x11 + 'Ui (D-fish w/ DP) 215

Firewarriors x11 + 'Ui 130

 

Fast Attack:

Pathfinders x8 (D-fish w/ DP)181

 

Heavy Support:

Hammerhead Gunship (RG, BC, DP, MT) 165

Broadside (A.S.S.,DC, 2x SD) 110

Broadside (A.S.S.,DC, 2x SD) 110

 

Total: 1,737

[Cadarn]

I second the drop pods. Tau are great at long or medium range, but if you can get right up in his face then he's in trouble. A couple of drop pods with tactical squads, sternguard, command squad dreadnought or whatever and unleash hell right in his face. The Dred can make a real mess of those tanks he's keeping tucked safely away. Also, with you being so close to his troops he will be more nervous about using his blast weapons.

 

This may even be one of those rare circumstances where jump pack equipped Vanguard can earn their points. Get a drop pod down first with a homing beacon and then in a later turn drop in your Vanguard and have them assault on the turn they arrive. Even a small squad will make mincemeat out of any Tau unit on the charge.

 

Now, I'm not a fan of "this is the stuff you need to buy" lists, so I'd like to know more about what you already have at your disposal and how that can possibly be used without spending a small fortune. What kind of army are you running? With a salamanders list you have the potential for some twin-linked flamer & melta goodness. Twin linked heavy flamers can be a whole lot of fun. Str 5, AP4 and re-rolling wounds against T3 and 4+ save? Yes please! Even normal flamers will result in plenty of fried calamari. The trick is, as you say, how to get them there without them being shot to hell first.

[greatcrusade08]

those suits are delicate to assault weapons, things like melta/plasma.. and are set up quite cleverly to take you down at range.

 

As has been said drop pods and teleporting termies are the way to go.. closing the gap is important and a few bikes/speeders would be welcome company.

 

heavy flamers are your friend against firewarriors and kroot and MM's against suits and hammerheads.

 

Failing all that my scout company likes tau, i can outflank or do first turn assaults against his vehicles and suits.

 

Gc08

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Hail holanes,

 

I hope you enjoy us and your time here on the B&C. :ph34r:

 

Have you posted A] the list you used, B] the list you want to use or C] your model collection? Sorry if I have missed it. If you haven't, please do :)

 

I hope these links provide you with something of value.... :huh:

Here is a link to a previous post; PREVIOUS TAU POST.

Here is a link to a compilation on how Tau work; TAU TACTICA

[holanes]

You know I was thinking about that list and hoping that I had remembered the wrong units together (since we have played a couple of games) but no. He was definitely playing 1750. The first game he replaced the two crisis suit squad with two Pirhanas and had one of the firewarrior squads walk to make up the points. I'm fairly certain that there was some degree of unbalanced play involved now. Either way, I would rather beat him and then point out that he had an extra 15% points. I know I haven't played much in a while but I was fairly decent back in the day.

 

Have you posted A] the list you used, B] the list you want to use or C] your model collection? Sorry if I have missed it. If you haven't, please do

 

I have a normal LR, a ton of marines, around 20 scouts with CCW, 10 scouts w/ SR, a large assortment of heavy and special weapons dudes, 2 rhinos, a razorback, a drop pod, a vindicator, 2 dreads, 1 ironclad, 5 TH/SS termies, 10 assault marines, 6 bikes, 4 unassembled land speeders and 3 unassembled rhinos, 6 sternguard.

 

I played a lot back in the day so now I kind of have it made as far as models go!

[Warprat]

I'm just starting to play as well, after a long absence. Three games so far, all against Tau. I have 4 tac squads, 2 terminator squads, a dread and 2 leaders. I have no transports. Just starting out...

 

My opponent has a fairly good range of Tau with a couple fire warrior squads, kroot, stealth, suits, vehicles... you name it. My record is 1 loss, 1 win and 1 tie.

 

 

Last game was the win, I pretty much won on deployment. He set his base objective on the extreme right behind a fortification, so I placed mine directly opposite, on my side. The battle took place on 1/3 of the table. My lack of mobility was not a factor. I also proxied a squad of sternguard and 4 plasma cannons (instead of missle launchers.)

 

I have noticed that Tau do not (at least my opponent) have much in the way of templates. So I bunched up for CC and shooting with no problems. They have plenty of powerful guns though. Though, by careful deployment and more pressing targets, my dread has managed to survive all game (but imobilized both times.)

 

In earlier games, I deep struck and gated, trying to make up for the loss of mobility. That was a mistake. It let him destroy me piecemeal. I have found that it is much better to hit with an overwheming force of bodies.

 

Last game I managed to powerfist 2 vehicles and made tham explode, along with a couple broadsides and other squads. My terminators proved to be star performers, even without heavy weapons.

 

I am learning when to rapid fire, when to charge, when to run, when to combat squad and so forth. I has been fun just learning the basics with out souping things up too much. It's surprising what even a tac squad can do if you use it right.

 

 

Warprat ;)

[Marshal Wilhelm]

I have a normal LR, a ton of marines, around 20 scouts with CCW, 10 scouts w/ SR, a large assortment of heavy and special weapons dudes, 2 rhinos, a razorback, a drop pod, a vindicator, 2 dreads, 1 ironclad, 5 TH/SS termies, 10 assault marines, 6 bikes, 4 unassembled land speeders and 3 unassembled rhinos, 6 sternguard.

 

I played a lot back in the day so now I kind of have it made as far as models go!

 

Have you read those 2 links?

 

Even though Tau are a dedicated shooty army, Marines can give as good as they get against them.

 

LCs for Broadsides.

MLs for Crisis suits.

 

If you can lock up the Elites in cc you are ahead. Tau Suits aren't terrible in cc but they lose a lot not being able to shoot. Even untooled up Assault Marines do okay, add PW or PF and they will fall more quickly.

 

Railguns are horrific. I don't take LR because it is not much harder to kill one compared to a Vindicator and are double the cost.

 

Getting Assault Marines into combat is the art. Have them chasing after a Rhino is a great shield. DS them, Terminators and Drop Pods get other guys into the frey much quicker.

If you are trundling a Vindi and having a Rhino+Assault Marines both moving forwards at the same time, you create a dilemma for the Tau.

 

You need to get those Devilfish open to get at the softer Fire Warriors.

 

In the "Previous Tau Post" I give a general order on how to undo Tau, with firing, moving and assault.

 

If you want to Pod in, buy three so that two land together in support with one another. The 6 Sternguard can drop and kill 2 Crisis suits. Giving them combi-meltas allows insta-kills on even Broadsides. The Ironclad will be an obvious target for Railguns. Even if you pod it. You can use the DP to provide cover for it against shooting. Remember your smoke! I would think the TH SS Terms would be hard for the Tau to get rid of.

 

When you DS/DP in, don't land right in front of him, land on his flanks, that way his stuff can obstruct his LOS and reduce the incoming fire power. If you DS/DP, melta his closest tank - this will provide cover for your newly arrived men.

 

Make sure you act in concert. Tau shooting is good enough to overwhelm piecemeal attacks. When you give them multiple targets at once AND eat up the distance between you and them, they should fall to you.