Tyranid Invasion, You are going to die.

[Hear da Lamentation]

QUOTE (Hear da Lamentation @ Jan 13 2010, 01:55 PM)

Some interesting info there. I am facing a Tyranid army this Friday - and have a question Stinkenheim. You say that in the FAQ it states Nids within synapse range DONT get Eternal Warrior, they are just protected against weapons double their Toughness.

 

I've just read the FAQ which says ... "They are not affected by the Instant Death Rule."

 

I don't have the rule book here (at work) - but how does this allow a lascannon to kill them then? I realise they have T4 - and the LC is Str9 ... but doesn't this still apply as Instant Death? (I understand why the force weapon will still kill them ... as this has nothing to do with the weapons Str.)

 

 

Double S is also Instant death so they are still protected by synapse.

 

If i'am not mistaken the Eternal warrior rule was introduced after the Nid dex apeared so its obvious why they dont have it..

 

Thanks for the response. But Stinkenheim said that even ignoring Instant Death - the lascannon would still instant kill them. This is the bit I don't understand - surely the "ignores instant death" still applies to this weapon. Nurglepuss has mentioned AP1 - no save. But they still have more than 1 wound ... so I don't see how this weapon would instakill them.

[WG Vrox]

As many Grey Hunters as you can fit into your points, supported by WG with PF/SB. 2 RP with Jotww and MH and LL. 1 full Long Fang Unit with HB and ML, 1 Pred with AC/HB Whirl Wind. 2 DP for assassination attemptes sporting DWML.

[Hear da Lamentation]

...... and for me (while not very experienced) I've fought Nids more than any other army and have always won ..... as many plasma cannons as you can reasonably get. I always have 2 in my Long Fang unit - and I usually equip my Dread with one as well. Last time I fought them, I killed all 6 pumped up genestealer retinue of the broodlord with ONE plasma cannon shot. They're awesome !

[Karack Blackstone]

I have a list that you may like to see and tweak off of, however it's built as an all-comers counter list.

 

The strengths I've seen so far is Razorbacks with LC + TLPG and Plasma Cannons, as many as you can, and Rune Priests.

 

Is this going on down at the LA Battle Bunker? I may be available to attend that, not sure what to bring though.

 

I can type up the list, not sure how to PM on here but the list is a decent starter spot. Since this is Kill points though, I'll have to modify a few things to see what should work out well.

[Niiai]

Go for Njal. If there are no numbers to the rounds and you manadge to live long enough his 7+ abilaty will go off each round. B)

[Karack Blackstone]

It's the rest of the list that's the question...

 

I have 3 so far, working with either Njal w/ Runic Term armor, or Bjorn w/ PC.

 

The rest is a core of:

 

3 Dreads, 1 w/ PC, DCCW, WTN, EA, 2 w/ TLLC, ML

 

2 x 6 GH's, Fist, Melta, Razorback w/ EA, LC & TLPG

 

And lastly the part I can't figure on...

 

2 LF's with 5 PC's each

 

OR

 

3 LF's, 2 x 5 HB's, 1 x 5 ML's

 

---

 

It's the LF's that are getting me, and it's irking me a little. I can't figure how good/bad the PC's LF's would be with the potential of overheating... Would the 3 LF's just make more sense?

 

Edit: Clarifying, "each" added.

[stinkenheim]

the ruling for synapse in the book said something along the lines of 'models in synapse range do not suffer ID from weapons double their T'. it was in the previous faq that it went on to state that this only covered weapons double their T and not weapons more than double, for example a warrior (T4) wouldnt be instan killed by a missile launcher but would by a lascannon.

 

having just looked at the newest faq i see they have changed it to be immune to ID, apologies for this didnt realise the FAQ had been updated as i was still working off the older one.

 

either way, there is no immunity anymore so load up on missile launchers, they have the strength to instant kill most low lvl synapse creatures and the AP to ignore the majority of MCs armour saves.

[Decoy]

This is something I've been throwing around in my head for a while.

 

You want to be the last one standing, yet still contribute? Rank upon rank upon rank of Grey Hunters, as many as you can fit in the list, accompanied by three full squads of either Plasmacannon or Heavy Bolter Long Fangs.

 

Dedicate yourself. Yes, you're Wolves, but Wolves do not always fight in close combat at the spearhead of the lines; Give your Hunters Flamers, or even Plasma, sit back behind a wall of Rhino (if you can afford it) with Storm Bolters (Again, if you can afford it).

 

However, personally, I prefer simple twin linked heavy bolter Razorbacks or Twin Linked Heavy Flamer 'backs. Bring firepower, and make them pay for every inch they step closer to you. Throw down a Rune Priest, or even Njal, to make them move as if in Difficult, and hammer the everloving daylights out of them with everything you got. Sixty Bolters, 120 shots within 12", excluding any main firepower.

 

Tank shock Razorbacks into them, then let lose with the flamers. That breaks their lines, forcing them to be exactly where you want them to be; A group of six (or even two or three) tanks Tank Shocking into the front line of an enemy army, side to side, will make the entire army reroute around your tanks, and then spend an extra turn reforming themselves... Right in front of 120 S4AP5 Bolters. If you die, you take a LOT of them with you. If you live? You've supported your lines admirably.

 

This is coming from a die-hard close combat specialist who is only just now using tanks, however... My knowledge of such things might be limited.

 

 

EDIT: Remember, this is a Megabattle, and you can bet bottom dollar that someone, SOMEONE on your side will be bringing lots of Lascannon weaponry. Furthermore, a powerfist in each squad can never be a bad thing.

[Hear da Lamentation]

Thanks Stinkerheim. I just wanted to check I hadn't missed something obvious.

 

Still - as you say, if they are definately losing it ... Great ! I can see some nice Vindicator vs Warrior action coming ! :)

[Leonaides]

Surprised no-one else's mentioned it - but what about some deathwind drop-pods? Dont think you have to have them all come down on the first turn (or do you?), but then you can start dropping D3 Whirlwind templates on each unit within 12"... Do that in the middle of a horde of Nids and say Kablooey! Do it again next turn and laugh manically. Do it on turn 3 or whenever your last on etrns up from reserves and the Nid players will be well and truely pissed at you! And it'll still effectively give you a whirlwind to play with on teh next turns after its big entrance (assuming you've within the enemies half of the board, or they have no option but to try and get past you, spending another turn within range).

[Grey Mage]

Cause as much as I love them, theyre opponents consent only- but if the organizer will allow IA, then heck yes, bring the rain!

[Beef]

Load up on loads of HQ choices and start bashing

[nurglespuss]

only opponents consent in tournaments mind you (because tournaments make their own rules).

[Grey Mage]

only opponents consent in tournaments mind you (because tournaments make their own rules).

Do we have to go into this one again- IA 2 is FW, and all FW is opponents consent only.

[Wolf Lord Hallbjorn]

I know a few people mentioned taking a whirlwind and hiding it in or near cover. I'm all for taking a whirlwind and raining death on the broods, but I would hug the hull with a GH squad or something to protect it from lictors and those ymgarl stealers or whatever if they use them. A big mistake that I always saw a Dark Angels friend make against the nids players was to leave his whirlwind behind a building or wall alone and then the lictor popped out and opened it like a tin can. Body-shield it if you're going to sit it in cover, and keep in mind the increased scatter potential for firing blind. I'd probably body-shield it more in the open and take the risk of a long range shot getting it so I can minimize the scatter. That's just what's worked for me so far.

[stinkenheim]

use wolves for guarding that sort of thing. Yeah they will likely die in the first turn of the assault against stealers but againt lictors they would kill it. lictors cant assault anymore when they deepstrike so only have a 2 shot, 6" range, str 6 weapon to fire the turn they arrive. the wolves are cheaper, just as likely to die as the grey hunters and it means that you are not leaving an expensive, scoring unit sat babysitting a tank that after say 3 turns should have done about as much damage as it is likely to do anyway.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

These are all great ideas. Thanks.

 

It is standard FOC. Forgot to mention that. I think I will stay infantry heavy and hope to last until Njal's special power starts kicking butt. The Bolter and JoWW will be my friend. My hq's will probably be Njal, RP, and a tooled up Wolf Lord with all the goodies and Warrior Born.

 

After a Tyranid unit is removed it comes back into play. I do not know if that means drop pod/ deep striking or coming off the board edge.

 

I am looking to control the battle. I like that Rhino idea.

 

My goal is to take as many of them out as possible and die a glorious death.

 

It is not at the LA bunker. It is at a Chicago-area GW. I think that most GW's will be playing a game like this on that day.

[Wolf Lord Hallbjorn]

use wolves for guarding that sort of thing. Yeah they will likely die in the first turn of the assault against stealers but againt lictors they would kill it. lictors cant assault anymore when they deepstrike so only have a 2 shot, 6" range, str 6 weapon to fire the turn they arrive. the wolves are cheaper, just as likely to die as the grey hunters and it means that you are not leaving an expensive, scoring unit sat babysitting a tank that after say 3 turns should have done about as much damage as it is likely to do anyway.

 

I agree. I really only pushed the GH idea because quite a few SW players i've seen don't have the models for wolves and/or never use them. I have them and I tend to use them quite often, and I agree that they are much better suited for that sort of guard duty. I'd still say to take the risk of giving the whirlwind as clear a view of the enemy as possible. I usually have insane luck with scatter, but I realize that my luck could be much worse and scattering 3d6 just seems like a risk I wouldn't want to take when i'm trying to make that whirlwind pay for itself many times over by blowing up little bugs.

[stinkenheim]

are you sure its 3d6... i tought it was 2d6 but you couldnt modify the roll like you can when you can see (minus you BS from the distance rolled)...

 

also chances are if they are coming back in play when its destroyed it will be from their table edge and not outflanking/deepstriking.

 

I would say a unit of bloodclaws on the charge would devastate gaunt units and take a chunk out of genestealers if the hd a WP in their. If you see any venomthropes kill them, as they provide cover saves to those nearby but also grant nearby units defensive grenades...

 

swarmlords need to be killed quickly and at range, Ws 9, 5 Wounds with a 4+ inv save. they instant kill models regardless of T and force you to re-roll successful Inv saves. plus they have a few nifty psychic powers and can grant any unit nearby one of three rules until the end of the turn (kind of like the high king rule)...

 

Easiest way to deal with zoanthropes is an Inq with psycannon or GK with psycannon as the have a 3+ inv save but only a 5+ normal...

 

trygon may seem scary but providing you take a coupe of wounds off of them you should be able to deal with them in CC if you have a grey hunter and WG with power fist...

 

The trsted heavy bolter is very usefull against everything now as the majority of things have at best 4+ save, only MC get better and most of them are 3+ so if you can put enough fire into them you should be able to do alot of damage... if someone has guard hope they take alot of firepower and protect it... stick close to the shootiest things on your side and mash up those that manage to squeeze through the incoming shots in close combat... JOWW will do wonders against the new nids as the MC are almost all I 1... things like murderous hurricane and thunderclap will also decimate the weaker units...

 

all in all similar tactics to before and dont be afraid to commit your forces.

i used to have great success being very offensive with my grey huters in the old dex and forging ahead forming a ring of 3 or 4 squads that had to be dealt with... have ragnar in one, will help, ulrik will be better if you go up against big things. WG with thunder hammers/storm shields will make a nice dent and have the survivability to do the job too. Bikes aswell will work well and pnce in combat the lesser creatures will find them hard to shift due to the high toughness

[Wolf Lord Hallbjorn]

Yes, you're right about the scatter. I'm sorry, I don't know what I was thinking about when I said that. So even getting to subtract 4 from whatever scatter there is would still be worth keeping it a little exposed in my opinion.

[Karack Blackstone]

Then it is likely every major Battle Bunker is doing the event. I just wonder how they plan to spin this...

 

That being said, I'm planning on going with my list posted here, with likely Bjorn and 3 LF's units, 2x5 HB's and 5 ML's in the other. Hopefully I can get some replies in the army list section, and go from there as to changes.

 

Good luck, Brother Dan.

 

Edit: Possibly threadomancing this as to not recycle a topic that has already been discussed and not clear on how to approach this. Reworked my list to not be so heavy on Dreads, and debating how to best approach this situation. I am asking for votes and opinions on my two lists posted in the Army Lists section of the Forums to see what people think. Otherwise, please flame away, ales on me on the web at least as far as having to bump this old thing back to the front page. *rolls out a fresh keg*

[Wolf Guard Dan]

I thought I would follow up with a battle report of the Tyranid Invasion and some thoughts on playing tyranids.

 

Scenario: Planet Strike. Tyranid Invasion- when a tyranid unit dies it redeploys. All tryanid Units are deployed via deepstrike, or reserve (Or through a hole). Units with deepstrike rule may assault same turn they arrive. Points went something like 14k good guys 11k bugs. Tyranids- Kill/contest all the bastions, i think there were eight. Good guys- don't let them.

 

My location was on an outter table with a young space marine player with his army wearing green and purple. We were in charge of defending 2 bastions. A guardsmen brought on a bunch of tanks from reserve, which were very helpful.

 

My list was 1500:

Njal-rtda

RP with tempests wrath and JotWW, some goodies included.

10 gh w/ 2 melta, banner. w/ wg c-m, powerfist

10 gh w/ 2 plasma gun, 1 plasma pistol, banner. w/ wg c-p, powerfist.

5 long fangs- 4 ml

4 wg- Arjac Rockfist, assault cannon, stormbolters with mix of wolf claws and powerfists.

4wg- heavy flamer, storm bolters with mix of wolf claws and powerfists

Lone Wolf- mark of wulfen (i had 35 points left to use)

 

I set up most of my guys around my bastion in cover. Njal was with the long fangs on top of the bastion. With arjac's squad and my two grey hunters around. The other RP and tda squad was over at the other bastion to protect from psychic powers. In exchange, my marine ally deployed his terminators and a dread to help protect my bastion.

 

With so many players the game only lasted 3 turns.

 

Tyranid First turn- the fire storm- they rolled and maxed out how many they got. By the Will of the Emperor their firestorms sent at our bastions fizzled and did nothing. Then they deployed a burrowing hole where their units could come out of without deep striking- they deployed it only 12 inches from my bastion, great! Even better- they wasted no time deploying units from the hole- 2 carnifexes, 3 lictors, 3 warriors, a unit of 5 ravenors ( i may have gotten the numbers mixed up.) This first turn they shot at my grey hunter squads and I failed 5 of 8 armor saves I had to take between the two squads. That's not supposed to happen.

 

My rebuttle my first turn was great. First I ran at the hole to cover it with units so they couldnt use it, moving a GH squad, arjac and the lone wolf to surround it. I was not able to cover it completely this turn. Shooting phase- Njal took out a Carnifex with Jaws and casted tempests wrath. My long fangs splitting fire killed the Warriors squad. My imperial guard ally brought his tanks in and killed most of the ravenors, all of the lictors, and the other carnifex. . My grey hunters were able to mop up the rest of the ravenors with their plasma weapons and bolters. Everything from that hole had died in that turn.

At the other bastion my rune priest killed another carnifex.

1st turn- 2 carnifexes down by JotWW.

 

Tyranid turn two- They brought some carnifex reinforcements from reserve to destroy the Guard tanks giving me cover fire. WIth my units surrounding 3/4's of the hole they were only able to bring on a unit of warriors and a couple zoanthropes. Another nid players dropped two carnifexes near a defending gh squad. Also, a trygon prime appeared very very near to our bastion, it scattered 7 inches back. It and a zoathrope took a wound to a dangerous terrain test thanks to Njal. The prime was out of charge range of the bastion but was able to fire at a gh squad giving me the opportunity to fail more armor saves which I obliged- then it charged them and finished them off.

 

My second turn- Well, that Trygon Prime was turned into some prime goo. But, it did force us to move some units at it before we shot it to death. THe purple and green marine moved his dreadnought in front of the bastion to charge the Trygon but it had died. My lone wolf was also ready to rush it (and kill it, i swear!) Between my long fangs and the guard tanks we squished that big bug. The warriors and that zoanthrope also died- i forget how, probably guard tanks. Njal came out of the bastion to Jaws those two carnifexes that lined up so neatly for him. He ended up killing the closest one and the other one escaped due to being a monstrous creature (drat I missed one). The second one was too far away to be a threat for the rest of the game. Arjac and his unit charged and killed a warriors squad.

2nd turn- 3 carnifexes down out of 4 from Jaws.

At this time we took a break to eat. We had already been playing for over two hours.

 

3rd Turn- Last Turn. At this point all of the other bastion has been destroyed except for the two on our board.

Tyranid Turn 3-

They brought in an orbital bombardment and killed the most of the rest of my gret hunters with it.

Well every unit they could bring against us they did. The trygon prime reappeared. Two zoanthropes appeared in range of the bastion. A unit of gaunts came of out the hole, blocking arjac from reaching the trygon prime. At the other bastion being held mostly by the green marine the tyranid reinforcements were able to get unit to contest the bastion, leaving one bastion left. Those silly bugs thought they had killed Njal's bastion with Zoanthropes and when they informed me I told them how Njal could dispell those powers. Having to roll to dispell two destroyed effects, Njal pulled through and negated those results.

The only way they could contest this bastion would be for the trygon prime to charge the dread, kill it, and consolidate. Unfortunately for them the purple and green marine dread survived. But all was not lost for the nids; if they could kill the dread in our assault phase and consolidate they could still contest.

 

Our last turn- With the situation dire Njal knew he had to hold off that Trygon Prime and with a howl prepared to charge the monstrosity with the rest of his grey hunter pack. Arjac (the last of his termie squad left) wanted to take the big boy down too and called for the long fangs to clear out those guants blocking his way. The long fangs loaded up with frag missiles and blasted away an entire guants squad. Arjac charged in for the kill. Brother Hromin, Lone Wolf, knew he had one last chance to claim his destiny in the halls of Russ seeking death and glory he charged.

The last combat-

Night Wing flew at the giant bug after seeing Njal charge. The creatures chitin was too much and Nightwing failed to harm the Prime. The Lone Wolf, with claws and teeth, also failed to wound the creature. Njal and the grey hunter squad called on the banner to help their strikes pierce the creature also to no avail. The Trygon prime struck back at the dread failing to bring down the vetern brother. The dread also failed to bring a killing blow. The Wolf Guard leading the grey hunter pack was ferocious calling on the banner to help his fist land he scored three wounds on the creature! Seeing the battle won and the creature wounded, Arjac struck at the creature- wanting to deal its death before the reinforcements arrived. The Anvil of Fenris, sure of his hammer blows, struck the creature and dealt a killing blow. The Wolves of Fenris had won the day.

 

No survivors talk about what happened that day. No one knows how the Tyranids were thrown back. Some surmise that Njal called a giant tempest to destroy all living flesh not protected by his runes. Some say Logan Grimnar arrived with many great companies to save their battle brothers. One thing for sure is that no survivor knew how quick and deadly the fighting was. All that mattered was for one day, the Tyranid Invasion was thrown back.

 

I'll post again to give some more words on playing vs the bugs.

[Wolf Guard Dan]

That was a lot of fun. It only lasted 3 turns and I think a 4th turn would have spelled my doom. In the end Njal and Arjac pulled it off. Njal is a lot of fun to play with. In that type of game there is a lot he can do, I just stuck to JoWW and Murderous hurricane, which ended up causing wounds to a Trygon Prime and a Zoanthrope. Anyways 4/5 carnifexes killed in only 3 turns. I think I forgot to mention my other RP took one out last turn. Njal's rune staff was key vs zoanthropes.

 

Arjac fulfilled his Saga by slaying the Trygon Prime. The other WG helped by causing three wounds, but thats why i struck with Arjac last :cuss. He is awesome in close combat.

 

I failed a lot of armor saves. I think I need new dice to replace my red and brass dice. These dice I have now rolled great with my World Eaters, but I think with my Wolves they roll poorly on armor saves. Blood for the Blood God, right?

 

My lone wolf did not die, as much as I tried to give him the opportunity. THe last turn the Trygon Prime split his attacks between the Dreadnought and arjac, his two greatest threats.

 

Plasma guns are very useful vs big bugs. Wolf Banner helps in close combat a ton. Power fists ftw.

[SamaNagol]

Tryanids have completely changed the meta-game for an all-comers build. Marines could previously get by with just loading up on melta and flamers. Whilst they are still somewhat effective versus Tyranids, you probably don't want to be that close. Missile Launchers and Plasma Cannon were the unwanted step-children of the 'Heavy' section.

 

I also don't like how a Rune Priest is effectively obligatory now.

[whitewolfmxc]

Please bring ONE LONE WOLF XD its glorious all the way brother