Space Wolves

[kittenofdeath]

each company had different numbers, due to their nature or being deployed in different zones. so it's not accurate to divide the legions like that.

thanks

antique_nova

 

true, but its the best way we have, besides, russ's men would be the best of the best, the elite, if some companys were bigger and some were smaller, russ's would be the latter

[antique_nova]

man your replying to my comments like crazy :). Hmm the best way? Your thinking logically, that what machines do and by russ we aren't machines. ^^. Looks like we are going to need to wait for the prospero books to come out to get a more accurate number.

thanks

antique_Nova

[kittenofdeath]

I dont have anything better to do, and I'm no machine, I've just broken enough of them to know how they work, theres ntohing wrong with knowing more than how to swing at an enemy. And I'll agree with you on the waiting point, everything I've sais is based on my own interpretation, we'll never know untill the book comes out, even then we might not know

[antique_nova]

i know, i know. i wasn't trying to flame.

[kittenofdeath]

Flame? I didnt think you were trying to flame, thats just how I talk

[Night Runner]

When the Prospero and Thousand Sons books come out they wont give any accurate numbers or how the Companies were organized. They will only provide Abnett's interpretation of the material already written by GW, with his own twists and flavours. Just like all the posters are doing here on this thread to all our enjoyment and appreciation, whether we agree or not. It has already begun with the interview where he states that the Emperor designed the Wolves to take down other Legions. It's just hyperbole and speculation, even though it will surely be enjoyable, if Abnett puts in the level of work he puts into his other novels.

[Lord Ragnarok]

100 percent agree with Night Runner's comments. Too much speculation based on tid bits. And I don't think legion/chapter size will ever have a definitive answer. Been debated for a looooong time. Best to just keep to one's own opinion.

[antique_nova]

a legion designed to take down other legions? that's very very interesting :mellow:. Looks like the emperor foresore heresy in the comming compain, but not on sure a large scale and it shows that he had no thought about how he would react to it, especially if it included someone who cared about personality.

thanks

antique_nova

[Raulmichile]

I didn't know that the Wolves were a Legion designed to take out other Legions. Where can i verify this? If this is true it's interesting how Big Bob devised his own version of Military Police :)

[antique_nova]

chuck norris anyone? lol, sorry but i had to. a source would be nice.

[Night Runner]

I didn't know that the Wolves were a Legion designed to take out other Legions. Where can i verify this? If this is true it's interesting how Big Bob devised his own version of Military Police :)

There are no sources, it's just Dan Abnett's take, idea, or vision of the SW in his book Prospero. It should be interesting to read though.

[Grimtooth]

I didn't know that the Wolves were a Legion designed to take out other Legions. Where can i verify this? If this is true it's interesting how Big Bob devised his own version of Military Police :huh:

There are no sources, it's just Dan Abnett's take, idea, or vision of the SW in his book Prospero. It should be interesting to read though.

 

I understand that the opening statement is only Dan Abnett's take on the Space Wolves, but I chose to then expound on that statement by pointing out the game material that supports his opinion.

• Blood Angels do not have wings or have premonitions like Sanguinous. They suffer from the Red Thirst and Black Rage due to being implanted with geneseed originally farmed from the dead body of their Primarch after he was killed by Horus.
  
• The SW companies are specialized. Read your codex and read each entry for the Great Company badges on the Grand Annulus.
  
• Before the each Primarch was found, the Emperor created his Legions from their genetic record. The codex states that they were 10,000 strong, not me.
  
• Grey Knights were founded during the 2nd Founding as a response to the Horus Heresy. They in no way would be considered to be a Legion killer since they were formed as a chapter per Codex Astartes. That would put them starting at 1000 Marines. While rumored to be created from the Emperors own geneseed, that would only lead to how uncorrupted they have stood against the demonic.
  
• Again, no other Primarch was given anything extra in their geneseed save Leman that was later passed along to his Legion. Magnus could possibly have been given his latent psychic abilities but considering that latent psychic abilities were being discovered in mankind during the creation of the various Primarchs, it could have just as easily been a fluke chance. However they were never encouraged and in fact the Emperor commanded that he not use them and later condemned him for using them.
  
• The World Eaters were just a normal Legion when created. Nothing special about them. When Angron was rejoined with them, he took it upon himself to have his marines altered as he was as a gladiator on the planet on which he was found.
  
• Take into account that once Leman was found, the original Space Wolves Legion was then reinforced with recruits from his homeworld of Fenris. So while you deduct numbers for wars and such, take into account recruitment.
  
• Leman left with only his retinue. He did not take a company and he did not take off with the 13th Co. The 13th Co was said to be ordered into the warp after the Thousand Sons were defeated on Prospero. At that time they were Legion sized so it could be said that they would indeed be close to or over 1000 Marines as a Great Company.
  

 

I am only looking at a statement made by Dan Abnett and then looking into the fluff and game material to see if it could possibly be true. I think with what I have pointed out that it is a very strong possibility the Space Wolves were created for the sole reason stated.

[SamaNagol]

Further to your assertions, the two Primarchs who openly encouraged their Astartes to adopt their own practises which were outside of the Emperor's doctrine were censured (Angron with his neurosurgery and Magnus with his sorcery). Leman Russ and his wolves were never censured, and in fact the Canis Helix was sanctioned as part of their unique gene-seed.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

The SW Legion has been described as a smaller Legion (as were the Salamanders)

Weregeld?

 

They Weregeld were Corax's attempts to pump out extra Astartes after the Heresy. They were unstable and 'only one in ten could wield a bolter'

The SW saw these abominations and were sympathetic to the RG. Perhaps because of their own experiences with the curse of the Wulfen. The SW never reported the RG to the 'authorities'.

 

The Rune Priests tell of 'the Saga of the Weregeld' on the darkest of nights.

Iron Warriors were resisting millions of Guardsmen in a fortress. The SW steadily fought the IW back one gate at a time. But the IW were masters of siegecraft and the SW couldn't capture the final gate.

Then the Weregeld appeared from no-where and smashed the IW. After the battle, the Weregeld vanished just as suddenly as they had appeared.

 

Taken from IA RG.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

The SW Legion has been described as a smaller Legion (as were the Salamanders)

Weregeld?

 

They Weregeld were Corax's attempts to pump out extra Astartes after the Heresy. They were unstable and 'only one in ten could wield a bolter'

The SW saw these abominations and were sympathetic to the RG. Perhaps because of their own experiences with the curse of the Wulfen. The SW never reported the RG to the 'authorities'.

 

The Rune Priests tell of 'the Saga of the Weregeld' on the darkest of nights.

Iron Warriors were resisting millions of Guardsmen in a fortress. The SW steadily fought the IW back one gate at a time. But the IW were masters of siegecraft and the SW couldn't capture the final gate.

Then the Weregeld appeared from no-where and smashed the IW. After the battle, the Weregeld vanished just as suddenly as they had appeared.

 

Taken from IA RG.

 

Also, after the Scouring is ended and the Imperium somewhat stable, Corax then purges these creatures before leaving alone to the Eye of Terror.

 

WLK

[Grimtooth]

The SW Legion has been described as a smaller Legion (as were the Salamanders)

Weregeld?

 

They Weregeld were Corax's attempts to pump out extra Astartes after the Heresy. They were unstable and 'only one in ten could wield a bolter'

The SW saw these abominations and were sympathetic to the RG. Perhaps because of their own experiences with the curse of the Wulfen. The SW never reported the RG to the 'authorities'.

 

The Rune Priests tell of 'the Saga of the Weregeld' on the darkest of nights.

Iron Warriors were resisting millions of Guardsmen in a fortress. The SW steadily fought the IW back one gate at a time. But the IW were masters of siegecraft and the SW couldn't capture the final gate.

Then the Weregeld appeared from no-where and smashed the IW. After the battle, the Weregeld vanished just as suddenly as they had appeared.

 

Taken from IA RG.

 

Also, after the Scouring is ended and the Imperium somewhat stable, Corax then purges these creatures before leaving alone to the Eye of Terror.

 

WLK

 

Did he purge them from the RG or take them with him into the EoT? I thought that was his last act as Primarch to atone for his actions.

[SamaNagol]

He killed them all himself, and then left.

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

the IA says he gave them the "Emperor's Benediction", and departed the Tower. He was last seen boarding a ship and heading towards the Eye of Terror.

 

WLK

[antique_nova]

where is all this info about corax and 'the Saga of the Weregeld' ?

[Night Runner]

where is all this info about corax and 'the Saga of the Weregeld' ?

You can find it on the Index Astartes series, book III or IV.

[Decoy]

I didn't know that the Wolves were a Legion designed to take out other Legions. Where can i verify this? If this is true it's interesting how Big Bob devised his own version of Military Police :devil:

There are no sources, it's just Dan Abnett's take, idea, or vision of the SW in his book Prospero. It should be interesting to read though.

 

 

New Space Wolf dex, I'd imagine, makes it canon. It's a bit of fluff work in there accompanying a nice photo.

[Jonas Stromclaw]

Regardless of whether or not it is specifically stated in current canon the space wolves being designed to take on another legion is logical. Their feroctiy is stated to stand them in good stead against far more experienced traitor marines, they were never censored by the emperor for their mutation, and the wulfen is shown to be very adept at killing other astartes. They also may have been meant as a weapon against chaos as the wulfen is resistant to mutation and daemonic possesion.

[c-wrex]

It's also possibly their thick, mead-addled skulls that make them so angry all the time. Do YOU wanna put up with some damn traitors spouting about "sacred books this" and "mighty tomes that" when you're hung over after a month long trip through the warp?

[Night Runner]

I didn't know that the Wolves were a Legion designed to take out other Legions. Where can i verify this? If this is true it's interesting how Big Bob devised his own version of Military Police :P

There are no sources, it's just Dan Abnett's take, idea, or vision of the SW in his book Prospero. It should be interesting to read though.

 

 

New Space Wolf dex, I'd imagine, makes it canon. It's a bit of fluff work in there accompanying a nice photo.

As cool as this concept is, there is no source for this in the new codex. If anyone derives or comes to the conclusion that the SW were created to take down other legions, then they are just speculating on material based on fiction. Such conjecture doesn't prove anything but this is your hobby and you should feel free to imagine it anyway you like.

 

Personally I do not like the idea of Space Wolves being genetically better or more powerful than the other legions, just different. I would not want the SW to win wars because they are physically superior, but because their spirit is indomitable. Besides this idea of 'policing' smacks of conformity, something Space Wolves definitely do not represent. That should be left to the Inquisition. Further more, I enjoy all the mythos of all the first founding chapters and wouldn't want the White Scars, Salamanders, Imperial Fists or the Raven Guard etc to be second to anyone, even my beloved Space Wolves. If I wasn't so chained by financial obligations I would probably build armies of all the 18 known pre-Heresy Legions (especially in Epic).

 

@Brother Ramses. I would like to dispute some of your points.

 

 

I understand that the opening statement is only Dan Abnett's take on the Space Wolves, but I chose to then expound on that statement by pointing out the game material that supports his opinion.

 

* The SW companies are specialized. Read your codex and read each entry for the Great Company badges on the Grand Annulus. They are specialized simply due to their Wolf Lord's character.

* Again, no other Primarch was given anything extra in their geneseed save Leman that was later passed along to his Legion. Magnus could possibly have been given his latent psychic abilities but considering that latent psychic abilities were being discovered in mankind during the creation of the various Primarchs, it could have just as easily been a fluke chance. However they were never encouraged and in fact the Emperor commanded that he not use them and later condemned him for using them. This is all speculative. Just because the Canis Helix is mentioned does not mean in any way or form that that the other Primarchs did not have a specialized genetic code or were not given something extra as well. It is probably the case that the Canis Helix was mentioned to explain the 'curse of the Wulfen' rather than the Emperor giving 'something extra' to the Wolves. Remember it is a Curse not a boon. It is more of a narrative tool to make the SW seem more heroic due to the fact that their greatest enemy lies within themselves. Similar to the Blood Angels concept of Black Rage and Red Thirst. The fact that these narrative tools have transcended into game mechanics is another topic. Also, Magnus' psychic powers were not latent, but in full sway.

* The World Eaters were just a normal Legion when created. Nothing special about them. When Angron was rejoined with them, he took it upon himself to have his marines altered as he was as a gladiator on the planet on which he was found. Once again you are wrong here, IMO. The World Eaters, even the Terran ones like Khârn were always predisposed to violence and savagery. It is not a great leap of the imagination to speculate that they were given this 'something extra' to be excellent assault troops.

 

<_<

[Jarl Kjaran Coldheart]

also, while not a benefit, on the matter of the marines gene-seed effects, the RG are known the become more and more albino as they age.

 

WLK