A couple of doubts

[Badaboom]

Gday, I´m fairly new to the game (not the hobby, I´ve been collecting for years) and, as I have no real gaming experience in 40K, I´d like to ask a couple of things:

 

-Is the LRR a good option? What is it good for?

-Does a LS squadron of 3 typhoons make sense?

-Are Heavy Flamers on Veteran Squads actually useful?

 

These are some of the doubts I can think of now, thanks everybody for your aid!

[Marshal Wilhelm]

The LRR is in a similar vein to the LRC.

Scoot dudes towards your target and unleash big flames and assault with _ _ _ _ (whatever your unit of cc death happens to be)

The flame cannons are lethal against MEq (Marine Equivalent - t4 sv 3+ minis) and anything up to that level of hardness.

The flame cannons counter the masses of cover 5th ed. has brought into action.

 

3 Typhoons. They are flexible and have great range and manoeuvrability.

But if you want AT, multi meltas (MM) will give you more kick. (though you have to be more daring ~ you want to be in 12" to get the MELTA rule in effect, but you can deepstrike them and shoot the turn you land :P )

Assault cannons are a good bet. A HB and AC will kill men well and the AC outperforms a Las Cannon against all AVs 10-14! (due to rending and having 4 shots)

 

Heavy flamers are horrific. s5 helps against all infantry and sv4+ is the armour value that if you can nullify (with AP 4 stuff like HF, Heavy bolters, Whirlwinds, etc.) you are on your way to killing all but MEq pretty easily.

Sternguard are good. To get the using HF, you need to drop pod or use a Rhino to do drive-by shooting.

 

What Chapter do you play as most of the time?

[Trozen]

Well I am by no means an expert, but I can try and assist.

 

1. I have not ever faced one, but it looks good at denying terrain. It won't get the amount of mobile firepower a crusader has, but it has it's uses at keeping infantry away.

2. I am loving Typhoons, but 3 in a squad is overkill imo. 6 missiles at a tank will tend to waste shots. 2 Typhoons is still a good investment though. Just today my squad of 2 killed a rhino, then a vindicator, then 2 wounds on a demon prince, and 4 CSM's all within 5 turns.

3. If you are talking C:SM you must mean sternguard, I can see having them useful in a squad that podded in. They could be useful in a small squad in a razorback if you can manage to get them into position. Personally I don't want to give up the special ammo bolters I paid for.

[Koremu]

Regarding Typhoon Speeders: When taking these as Squadrons, I would put a cheap sacrificial Land Speeder (either Heavy Bolter mono or HB/Heavy Flamer for preference) to make it easier to manipulate both the Hit allocation system and the vehicle cover rules.

[Badaboom]

Thanks to everybody, this seems really useful.

 

@Marshall_Willhelm: very good info, I was asking because most of the time I read about people using regular apttern LR or LRC, not much LRR (the one that I own, just because it looks awesome). Oh, btw, I play Imperial Fists, but I like an agile and aggressive style, as I´m used to play Dark Elves in WHFB.

 

As all my LS are magnetized, I´ll be happy to field mixed squadrons. 2 Tyhpoons+twin HB should be ok, isn´t it? Perhaps the AC is a little too expensive. About the HF in Sternguard squads, are you able to fire heavy weapons after disembarking? I thought it isn´t possible.

[Koremu]

As all my LS are magnetized, I´ll be happy to field mixed squadrons. 2 Tyhpoons+twin HB should be ok, isn´t it? Perhaps the AC is a little too expensive. About the HF in Sternguard squads, are you able to fire heavy weapons after disembarking? I thought it isn´t possible.

Assault Cannon don't range match well with Typhoon Launchers.

 

And Heavy Flamers are Assault 1, not rules-"Heavy"

[Giga]

Redeemer is cool on paper, but it's rather unreliable in game, as its primary range brings it into the melta range of the enemy army, and all it takes to render it inefficient is a single immobilized result. I believe crusader is better, and godhammer is the best.

 

LS squadron of 3 typhoons is a little expensive (270 pts total, if memory serves) but with it, you will have solved all your anti-MC and anti-light vehicle needs. In short, they're awesome. Just make sure you use their movement to keep them out of trouble.

 

By heavy flamers on veteran squads, you mean heavy flamers on sternguard or on terminators? On sternguard, yes, heavy flamers are absolutely awesome. On terminators, I would rather use cyclone missile launcher or assault cannon.

[Badaboom]

Emperor be prised! Assault 1? Hell, yeah!

 

@Giga: yes, I mean Sternguard. And yes, that´s the cost of 3 typhoons, too bad they can´t split their fire. 6 S4 templates sounds like the bane of horde units, am I right?

[IvorTangrean]

Emperor be prised! Assault 1? Hell, yeah!

 

@Giga: yes, I mean Sternguard. And yes, that´s the cost of 3 typhoons, too bad they can´t split their fire. 6 S4 templates sounds like the bane of horde units, am I right?

 

Plus the 9 HB rounds

[Grey Mage]

Triple Typhoons packs alot of firepower on the move... a great deal for SM players. Though I think two of them are usually enough to get the job done really.

 

I wouldnt touch the LRR with a 10 foot stick though. Its sponsons are rather short ranged,and suffer from an inability to target the same unit. Unless you intend to play alot of cityfight Id rather have a phobos or a crusader. That being said if you buy the new crusader its worth taking the extra time and money to magnetize the weapon options, or be careful with your modeling so you can slide the sponsons on and off.

 

Heavy Flamers on Sterngaurd are indeed useful, though I prefer to retain the bolter and its special ammunition. Still, an excellant choice.

 

BTW- You should play Salamanders, not nessecairliy a Vulkan list, but you seem like a sallies player.

[Koremu]

The Redeemer can target the same unit. You just need bigger target units. Use it to set fire to Fortifications, or burn intervening broods out of the way as you deliver a CC unit to kill a Synapse creature.

[Badaboom]

I basically run the LRR because it looks much better than the other variants IMHO, just a matter of personal taste; I´m also considering the HF on Sternguard mainly because I have some spare HF and like 6 marines yet to be assembled, and I like to have all possible options available.

 

As I´m fairly new to the gaming part of the hobby, I´d like to let you know more or less the models I own, so I can get advices on how to best use my army, if you feel inspired and helpful :huh:

 

@Grey Mage: a Sallie´s? Why do you think so?

 

My current models, more or less:

 

-2Dreads (MM, Storm Bolter).

-2 drop pods.

-2 Razorbacks (magnetized).

-1LRR.

-3 Land Speeders (magnetized).

-3x10 Tactical Squads(all special weapons available).

-3x5 Dev Squads (all heavy weapons available).

-15 Jump Pack Assault Marines (all options of special weapons ready).

-5 Sternguard vets (+5 models that can be either used as Sargeants or vets).

-Command squad (champ, SB, apothecary...).

-10 Assault Termis (5 TH/SS, 5 TLC).

-10 Tact Termis (still thinking about how to arm them).

-5 Sniper Scouts+ ML.

-8 Bikes+MM AB.

-2 Libbies (normal and Termi).

-3 Chappies (normal, JP and Termi).

-1 Techmarine.

-X possible captains, as I have enough models to represent it with almost everything.

 

I´m used to a very mobile and dinamic game style, but I´m not sure about how to properly translate my WHFB experience with the Dark Elves to the grim future of 40K, any thoughts?

[Justicar Valius]

Oh my in that list of units I see the makings of a great Vulkan cheese list... Prepare to win battles and lose friends if you take that route though.

2 typhoons with heavybolters and maybe anothe sacrificial speeder is a great unit.

Go mech though or many armies will eat you and ask for seconds.

[Grey Mage]

@Grey Mage: a Sallie´s? Why do you think so?

 

My current models, more or less:

 

-2Dreads (MM, Storm Bolter).

-2 drop pods.

-2 Razorbacks (magnetized).

-1LRR.

-3 Land Speeders (magnetized).

-3x10 Tactical Squads(all special weapons available).

-3x5 Dev Squads (all heavy weapons available).

-15 Jump Pack Assault Marines (all options of special weapons ready).

-5 Sternguard vets (+5 models that can be either used as Sargeants or vets).

-Command squad (champ, SB, apothecary...).

-10 Assault Termis (5 TH/SS, 5 TLC).

-10 Tact Termis (still thinking about how to arm them).

-5 Sniper Scouts+ ML.

-8 Bikes+MM AB.

-2 Libbies (normal and Termi).

-3 Chappies (normal, JP and Termi).

-1 Techmarine.

-X possible captains, as I have enough models to represent it with almost everything.

 

I´m used to a very mobile and dinamic game style, but I´m not sure about how to properly translate my WHFB experience with the Dark Elves to the grim future of 40K, any thoughts?

Just the questions about fire and flame, though your model list wouldnt be a bad basis for a sallies themed chapter. Lots of Multimeltas, flamers, decent number of troops, though with above average fast attack choices for a sallies player.

 

Whatever you decided on though for your colors troops when games for you, toys keep your options open. I suggest getting another Rhino, and frankly another Drop Pod- they work best in odd numbers, where you can maximise the troops available first turn. Two can be useful though, as a plan A or plan B setup.

 

For Tactical Terminators I find these days few things beat a Cyclone Missile Launcher... its got amazing range, you keep your stormbolter, and it can hurt anything in the game potentially.. and its flexable.

 

As for Dark Elves, Id actually have suggested Eldar or Black Templars for you- Eldar being the fast and fluid style, black templars for their aggressive nature and that reroll to hit your probly used to at this point.

 

For a Codex List, assuming you have a bike captain, Id tell you to try out a few games with this:

 

Captain- Bike, Relicblade- 165pts.

 

8 Bikers+AB- 2x MG, MM, PF- 310pts. *Think of them as a cross between cold one knights and black riders*

10 Tacticals- Missile Launcher, Plasmagun, Rhino- 215pts. *More like Crossbowmen, including range*

 

2x Landspeeder- MM/HF- 140pts.

 

5 Sterngaurd- Combimelta, Razorback- 170pts.

 

1000pts.

 

As an Elf Player your used to moving 10" a turn, so bikes might be a good transition for you there, as tacticals only move 6", wich will probly be a paradigm shift. Alot of the concepts in WFB are still very applicable- a good firebase is always useful, mobility can win you games but you have to be able to hit hard enough to make it worth the effort, units of strength 5 are often wiped off the board, but with special choices sometimes you have to takem as a small unit, heavy cavalry units are still hitting like a ton of bricks and still expensive- like terminators in a landraider, or a biker command squad.

 

Frankly I started off with Fantasy, and I feel Im a much better player in 40k because of it.

[Giga]

-2Dreads (MM, Storm Bolter).

-2 drop pods.

-2 Razorbacks (magnetized).

-1LRR.

-3 Land Speeders (magnetized).

-3x10 Tactical Squads(all special weapons available).

-3x5 Dev Squads (all heavy weapons available).

-15 Jump Pack Assault Marines (all options of special weapons ready).

-5 Sternguard vets (+5 models that can be either used as Sargeants or vets).

-Command squad (champ, SB, apothecary...).

-10 Assault Termis (5 TH/SS, 5 TLC).

-10 Tact Termis (still thinking about how to arm them).

-5 Sniper Scouts+ ML.

-8 Bikes+MM AB.

-2 Libbies (normal and Termi).

-3 Chappies (normal, JP and Termi).

-1 Techmarine.

-X possible captains, as I have enough models to represent it with almost everything.

Hmmm, I suppose those razorbacks have magnetized turrets, so you can turn them into rhinos on need, eh?

 

Here's what I'd make with the stuff you own, for 1495 pts;

 

Vulkan

2x Tactical Squads with flamer, missile launcher, powerfist & combiflamer

3x mm/hf speeder

5x th/ss termies

LRR with extra armor & multimelta

dread with mm and heavy flamer in drop pod

 

Basically, you rush at the enemy and pwn him with mass melta, fire, th/ss etc. goodness. The dread is there to draw attention away from your army for one turn, making it easier for the rest of your d00dz to reach melta/flamer range safely. The list is entertaining to play because it's based on short-range shooting and assaulting, and because it's a really good list for a beginner who still needs to get acquainted with the game.

 

You can do the exact same list for 1750 pts, just add another tac squad in rhino, same as these two.

[unbeliever87]

Vulkan

2x Tactical Squads with flamer, missile launcher, powerfist & combiflamer

3x mm/hf speeder

5x th/ss termies

LRR with extra armor & multimelta

dread with mm and heavy flamer in drop pod

 

Hehe. I run pretty much the exact same list, and can vouch for its effectiveness. At 1750 I drop a few upgrades and add in a Vindicator and a PF scout squad inside a LSS. It's not a whole lot of fun to play against, and the small amount of scoring units can be a problem, but you'll be tabling most opponents without difficulty.

[Giga]

Hehe. I run pretty much the exact same list, and can vouch for its effectiveness. At 1750 I drop a few upgrades and add in a Vindicator and a PF scout squad inside a LSS. It's not a whole lot of fun to play against, and the small amount of scoring units can be a problem, but you'll be tabling most opponents without difficulty.

I don't like vindicators in vulkan lists. Most of the army will be hanging around in 12" range of the enemy, so dropping demolisher pieplates nearby is bound to result in self-inflicted disaster occasionally.

 

As for people who get tabled by vulkan lists, it's really only their fault. I for one never got tabled by a vulkan list, regardless of what list I was using. However, since lots of these "casual players" would feel it wasn't their fault that they got beaten and would whine about it accordingly, I do advocate not using vulkan lists in casual play, or at least not when playing against them. :D

[Badaboom]

Hi guys, thanks for the advices; seems to me that with the new special IC, they are more a way to customize your army than anything else. Don´t know why, I´m somehow a bit reluctant to use them, but I guess I should.

 

I think bikes are great for its mobility and resilience, though I have yet to really try them out seriously. Combined with LS and maybe an Assault squad with a chappy, I guess I´d have a strong and mobile flanking/response force, or even DS´s the LS and Assault marines along with the Termis for a concentrated assault on the enemy lines. Good tactic?

 

Razorbacks are ready to be used with different weapons and of course as rhinos if needed, and I´m pretty sure I´ll be adding one or two more quite soon (razorback or maybe whirlwinds, as they look awesome!).

 

The general idea I have is to get some beacons on the drop pod as well as on some sergeants and keep my DS units in reserve to take the battle to the enemy or to aid on a hot spot if needed. I also used a 5 man Sternguard unit with a Libby last game, using GoI and Avenger and they worked quite ok.

 

What about a JP Captain with an assault squad and a Chappy? I used that once against a friend, combat squadding the Assault marines so I had the Captain with 5 man and the Chaplain with other 5, supporting each other while they advanced.

 

What about a razorback as dedicated transport for Devs, moving them around or providing fire support and cover for them?

 

Another idea I had was to deply the units as little teams, with an assault squad, a tactical squad and a dread working together. I´ve done simmilar things with my army while playing Fantasy, and the results have been very good.

 

From a fluffy perspective, I´ve read that, after the Heresy, the Imperial Fists got much more aggressive on their battle plans, and that they use defensive tactics only when all other more aggressive options have been spent; that´s one of the reasons why I want to play my army like a gunline. Also, the assault marine models look awesome and isn´t it nice to got HtH with the enemy?

[Giga]

What about a razorback as dedicated transport for Devs, moving them around or providing fire support and cover for them?

Devs should definitely get a razorback (it's a cheap TL-heavy bolter/mobile cover/transport for something else) but they should spend as little time in it as possible. You want your devs standing somewhere, shooting. You don't want them driving around and wasting turns of potential shooting.

[ZombyWoof]

What about a razorback as dedicated transport for Devs, moving them around or providing fire support and cover for them?

Devs should definitely get a razorback (it's a cheap TL-heavy bolter/mobile cover/transport for something else) but they should spend as little time in it as possible. You want your devs standing somewhere, shooting. You don't want them driving around and wasting turns of potential shooting.

Using Lascannon and/or missile Devs, I'm going to take a Rhino (points allowing) and use it as a pillbox. Two Devs can fire out the top hatch and the armor will take enemy fire first. If it gets blown, then the survivors get to chill in a nice crater.

[Grey Mage]

What about a razorback as dedicated transport for Devs, moving them around or providing fire support and cover for them?

Devs should definitely get a razorback (it's a cheap TL-heavy bolter/mobile cover/transport for something else) but they should spend as little time in it as possible. You want your devs standing somewhere, shooting. You don't want them driving around and wasting turns of potential shooting.

Using Lascannon and/or missile Devs, I'm going to take a Rhino (points allowing) and use it as a pillbox. Two Devs can fire out the top hatch and the armor will take enemy fire first. If it gets blown, then the survivors get to chill in a nice crater.

Just remember that if the rhino is shaken/stunned you cant shoot those heavy weapons.

[Giga]

Using Lascannon and/or missile Devs, I'm going to take a Rhino (points allowing) and use it as a pillbox. Two Devs can fire out the top hatch and the armor will take enemy fire first. If it gets blown, then the survivors get to chill in a nice crater.

Don't.

 

If you want 2 heavy weapons shooting out of a rhino, get sternguard.

 

5 sternguard with 2 heavy weapons are always cheaper (and better) then 5 devs with 2 heavy weapons. With Pedro, those sternguard can also be scoring.

 

So, unless you really need those elites slots, sternguard in rhino are always better then devs in rhino.

[ZombyWoof]

Gray Mage: Good point. A Razorback sitting nearby would be better to be used as cover/draw fire for the unmounted Devs.

Giga: I'd be using a 10 man Dev squad and combat squading, but that's an excellent alternative.

Thanks for the cc!

[Badaboom]

Hi again, thanks everybody for the comments, all this is going to be pretty useful.

 

I´m in the process of ordering some more models (Nids for my friend and some reinforcements for my Imperial Fists), and I have a question about a possible new LR: should I get a normal LR pattern, with lasscannons and so on, or should I get another Redeemer/Crusader for redundancy´s sake? I´ll probably use it to move towards the enemy most of the time, unload the troops inside and watch the fires, but still I´m not so sure.