Shooting over a screening unit

[Freakiq]

If my dreadnought trace line of sight over a tactical squad to fire at a guardsman does it get a cover save?

 

To clarify, the tactical squad is in no way interfering with the Dreadnought line of sight but is still between the shooter and the target.

 

 

My opponent thought that firing over a squad and through a squad is the same thing but I disagree.

[Ashe Darke]

It's only if they block LoS (pg21 - Intervening models).

[Freakiq]

That's what I thought, just couldn't find it.

 

Thanks! ^_^

[Frosty the Pyro]

Just remember if even the tineyest toe of a model is blocked by the smallest sliver of a marines head, that counts as cover, as does going between models of a unit (esentialy working like a solid wall at head height that provides cover). Considering the hight of the gun on a dread, and the height of a marine, this is only possible if either the target or the dread is on elivated ground.

[Bobman]

Just remember if even the tineyest toe of a model is blocked by the smallest sliver of a marines head, that counts as cover, as does going between models of a unit (esentialy working like a solid wall at head height that provides cover). Considering the hight of the gun on a dread, and the height of a marine, this is only possible if either the target or the dread is on elivated ground.

 

I'm not sure I agree with the first bit. A unit would have to have to have the majority covered to gain cover by TLOS. Or be firing through/ between models in another unit which is like area terrain. If a toe is covered on 1 model in a unit by any means I would not grant that unit a cover save.

 

Is there not some part (don't have the book on me) that says LOS is drawn to the main body of the target and extended arms/tentacles/banners etc not counting, thereby just covering a foot not being enough?

[Ashe Darke]

Well I was wondering about this. It says if a 'target' is partially hidden.

 

It makes no mention of 50% of the unit and it doesn't say unit or model which is the confusing thing.

 

As for it needing to block the majority of LoS that isn't the case with infantry. If you can't see the feet of 50% or more of the unit then they're in cover as per this quote 'When any part of the target model's body is obscured from the point of view of the firer, the target model is in cover'. Now those guys you can't see the feet of are in cover and seen as they make up 50% or more of the unit the whole unit is in cover.

 

But the intervening models section doesn't mention this, it just explains why the intervening models don't get hit.

[Frosty the Pyro]

Just remember if even the tineyest toe of a model is blocked by the smallest sliver of a marines head, that counts as cover, as does going between models of a unit (esentialy working like a solid wall at head height that provides cover). Considering the hight of the gun on a dread, and the height of a marine, this is only possible if either the target or the dread is on elivated ground.

 

I'm not sure I agree with the first bit. A unit would have to have to have the majority covered to gain cover by TLOS. Or be firing through/ between models in another unit which is like area terrain. If a toe is covered on 1 model in a unit by any means I would not grant that unit a cover save.

 

Is there not some part (don't have the book on me) that says LOS is drawn to the main body of the target and extended arms/tentacles/banners etc not counting, thereby just covering a foot not being enough?

head arms body and legs (which feet count as) are all targeted, its only stuff like weapons, banners, wings, tails, and similar extra gubbins that are ignored.

 

This is determined model by model. If 50% or more of the models would be recieving saves, they all do, if not, none do. But due to hieghts involved it is very unlikely you are going to go over marines and still have a clear shot to the botom of enemy models without diferent elevatoins being involved.

[Nachocuban]

It makes no mention of 50% of the unit and it doesn't say unit or model which is the confusing thing.

 

You can't target individual models (w/o special rules) so I would assume that the term target refers to the unit you are firing at.

[Ashe Darke]

Good point, so does that mean only part of a single model in the unit needs to be blocked?

[Frosty the Pyro]

no it means only a tiney part of at least half of them must be blocked, read page 22 "units partialy in cover". Though its rare that only one model will be getting cover, especialy if your atempting to shoot over another unit.