Taking on....

[Hidden Wolf]

I am taking on a nid power gamer this week end and was wondering how cheesed up can a space wolf get against specifcly nids i know JOTWW is good but they are taking genestelers warriours and MC spam with the new dex and it is preety scary. but how cheesed up could a SW army get aganst anyone i just want to know i have some mean ideas but i have seen this Power Gamer 1500 pt nid list EAT UP a 2500 pt dark eldar list.

[Max_Dammit]

I say Njal, make the area around him work against the nids

[Wispy]

MC spam is less scary because they can afford less of them. they're a lot more expensive now! remember this!

 

I've been thinking about this too - Rune Priests are top notch. Also spread some wolf tooth talismans around on any other HQ you have, as a 5+ to negate their no scary powers is helpful.

 

The best way to deal with genestealers is to have any dudes on the side be in cover. That way if the stealers assault in, they won't be attacking first. I don't think they have flesh hooks anymore, too.

 

As always, Grey Hunters with plasma guns and a pistol will put a lot of wounds on a MC for shooting. Meltaguns are now useful too, as they will insta-kill Tyranid warriors (a squad with two can kill six wounds against warriors if they hit). Missile launchers are also awesome for that reason, too - kraks can hurt MCs now, and will instakill the warriors.

 

There will be a LOT more little bugs, so flamers are really helpful! I like to bring these with my land speeders.

[Wispy]

Alsp...I don't really recommend them vs Nid, because it's a bit of a point sync, and requires a little luck for when the assaults end, and a little multi-assaulting for best results...

 

I played a dude using a tervigon the other day, and I held my thunderwolf cavalry+lord is reserve (because nid shooting is scary). By the time they got on the board, the tervigon and his now massive brood was threatening my end of the table. Now, the wolf lord had saga of the warrior born...

 

You can imagine how this turned out! He assaulted unit of termagant after termagant unit, and by the time he engaged the tervigon itself, he had 16 attacks and was able to kill it outright. The high toughness of thunder wolf lord was very helpful in keeping wounds off, and I gave him runic armor, so any he got on me were saved pretty quickly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So yeah, Saga of the Warrior Born is pretty awesome against nid hordes.

[Vlk]

I can't help but recommend my new tricky pony...

 

If you by some chance have a free Elite slot, take an Inquisitor with two Mystics (if you don't have a free Elite slot, maybe you could take an Inquisitor Lord as an HQ) as allies. New Nids are supposed to really cause some pain with deepstriking (all those Lictors, Gargoyles, Death Leapers, drop-poding Zoanthropes and especially Mawlocs, Trygons and Raveners), particularly if you use Long Fangs.

 

Double-Mystic Inquisitor can really cause some pain to them.

 

Combined with that, I would suggest Long Fangs, Long Fangs and Long Fangs! Take them with Missile Launchers and Heavy Bolters so they can wound MCs, kill Genestealers with HB fire and instakill warriors.

[ironking]

erm... Can you take the Double-Mystic Inquisitor in a regular Wolf List? Or would that be for APOC battles?

[Vlk]

They're allies, so why not?

 

I can't see anything in the Rulebook that would say you can't take allies in regular games (if you know about anything, please tell me).

 

And in Codex: Daemonhunters, it's specifically stated that Daemonhunters units can be included in allies in various armies such as Space Wolves.

[hmk17]

Owning the new Nid codex, its plainly obvious the little buggers can become a real pain should they hit melee. However, for all the new craziness it comes at a steep cost.

 

While Genestealer spam will get the job done cheaply, I'm betting he's tricked out the Warriors with Lash Whip/Bonesword combo since you say he's a "Timmy". If that's the case, rest assured that a unit of 3 Warriors costs almost as much as the MC. Sadly its the same as 10 Genestealers tricked out for Furious Charge.

 

JotWW will handle the big guys easily enough. Long Fangs can put them AND the little guys down hard. You're main concern is he doesn't wrap up the heavy hitters with the MC Spam.

[ironking]

hahaha... haahahha.... hahahahahahaah (maniacal laughter)...

 

oh this will be sweet.

 

Im playing a 800pt nid game in about 2 weeks - my opponent has been drooling over all the nasty new nid options - he seems to love that new tricked out lictor (pimp my nid) with 4x WS9 S6 attacks and W3 to boot.

 

With those mystics I can shoot the crap out of it before it causes havok in amongst my troops.

 

... and what is MC??

[Azatoth]

People who need allies should look for another army. :)

[Heimdal]

... and what is MC??

 

Monstrous Creature

[Ullr Direfang]

... since you say he's a "Timmy".

 

:) but i am Timmy...... what is a gaming "Timmy"?

 

i have a friend you runs big bugs but have got a chance to talk to him since the new 'dex came out, but last time i played him i took a WL with TH/SS and SothBS. the LF concentrated one the shooty bugs and the GH waited for anything to get close, turn out to be a unit of Steelers. but it fared well, i tied him, the mission was C&C and he kind fortress-ed his marker thingy.

[rodf]

flamers , land speeders with hflamers, good amount of invul , and the prevent infiltration withing 18 power. lots of dakka helps too. tank shock the stuff out of synaps

[Stormbrow II]

First things first. If you take a single Rune Priest you can expect to be taking your Psychic tests on Ld 7 due to Deathleaper's ability. If you have a higher Ld than this it is a bonus. Saying that, don't be afraid to use Jaws against his big slow stuff. Tervigons are I1, as are Carnifexes. Even a Zoanthrope/Venomthrope will die on a 5+ to Jaws.

 

The second thing is try to use your Ranged attacks to bag his support units like the 'Thropes. They suffer instant death against S8 attacks. Even if the Zoanthrope has a 3+ invulnerable, probability says that he'll die if you fire 3 S8 shots at him. A Grey Hunter squad has 2 Meltaguns and lots of Bolters typically. They'll bag him in one round, especially as his Lance attack only has a Range of 18" which will allow you to move 12", disembark and rapid fire. That's not the mention the fact that he must take a Psychic test to use it first...

 

If you see Tyranid Warriors you can expect them to have a Tyranid Prime to take the S8 and S9 hits so don't expect to kill too many of them at range unless you throw everything and the kitchen sink at them in one turn. Long Fangs are going to be very valuable for this.

 

Meching up your army is also going to be helpful as he can't assault your precious Marines unless they are outside their transports so don't be afraid to have a threatened squad drive away from one big threat to take on another. Just be careful of a Tervigon spawning Gaunts and swamping your Rhinos while an MC batters it.

 

My own second favourite unit (TWC) are also very useful having lots of high-S attacks with either a Power Fist or Hammer in tow to drop those High I beasties down to I 1. As long as they're not alone in fighting things i.e. use Grey Hunter support, they'll make a mess of most things in the Nid book.

 

The main thing is to keep calm and not get freaked out by some of the new rules that come with new units. Take out the support beasts (Thropes and Tervigons), the big slow things (walking Tyrants + Guard) and other MC's, and finally mop up his Troops.

 

They longer you keep his big things at a distance the longer you buy time for your firepower to hurt him. Don't be afraid of making sacrifices of single squads for the rest of your army to redeploy or pour fire at him.

[Spacefrisian]

If you want powergaming try to add the following.

 

Inquisitor with 2 Mystics (native inq dudes from fenris)

 

3 Wolfguards

At least one armed with TDA, Cyclone launcher, stormbolter.

 

Have him joining a unit of 6 Longfangs 5 armed with Lascannons and the Leader with a Plasmagun.

 

Now invite him to deepstrike near youre forces, you are most likely to shoot any Maloc/ Trygon or any other funny guy who is about to stick his head out of the ground to the eternal hunting grounds.

[Vlk]

If you want powergaming try to add the following.

 

Inquisitor with 2 Mystics (native inq dudes from fenris)

 

3 Wolfguards

At least one armed with TDA, Cyclone launcher, stormbolter.

 

Have him joining a unit of 6 Longfangs 5 armed with Lascannons and the Leader with a Plasmagun.

 

Now invite him to deepstrike near youre forces, you are most likely to shoot any Maloc/ Trygon or any other funny guy who is about to stick his head out of the ground to the eternal hunting grounds.

 

Or a Belisarius Navigator with his retinue :P

 

But you need 5 Wolf Guards to take a Cyclone Launcher

[nurglespuss]

just out of interest, why would you 'want' to play a power gamer?

[Ullr Direfang]

just out of interest, why would you 'want' to play a power gamer?

 

so when you crush his "superior" army you can laugh in his face..... i mean you can point out that even powerful armies are beatable.

[nurglespuss]

ahhhh I see,

 

Then personally, I would take THE most balanced and characterful force i possible could, and wipe the floor with him.

[the jeske]

just out of interest, why would you 'want' to play a power gamer?

 

so when you crush his "superior" army you can laugh in his face..... i mean you can point out that even powerful armies are beatable.

 

 

the problem is nids have the worse possible match up with sw. everything that is in standard sw armies screws every possible build a nid player could make. So I would say it is rather the other way around :(

[hmk17]

@ Ulir

 

Timmy is a name given to one of three player archetypes identified by Wizards of the Coast in conjunction with Magic the Gathering. The three types are: Timmy Power Gamer, Johnny Combo Player, and Spike.

 

Spike is all about winning any way possible. Johnny likes to setup combos (no matter how unwieldly) and takes great pride when they go off. Timmy likes the big monsters and the heavy hitters, regardless of cost. Every gamer is one or a combination of the three.

 

To apply it to 40K, Timmy is the guy with the 1000 pt god squad coupled with every other beardy unit he can find in 1500pt army. Johnny usually has the key pointed drop pod army. Spike just gets the job done using anything solid, but is not afraid to throw around some cheddar if it works.

 

 

@ Stormbrow

 

While solid advice, from what the OP stated about the army (Warriors, Genestealers, and MC Spam) it doesn't hint at Zoanthropes. (Which are highly worth it) Also discounts the Death Leaper, which is also very worthwhile. However, the Tervigon is a lumbering blob of an HQ slot. A rune Priest just needs to stay more than 12 inches out and it goes poof.

 

I see MC spam and I think 2 Mawlocs and a Trygon Prime. The Mawlocs tunnel around tying up shooty units while the Trygon Prime "drop pods" units while throwing Shadow of the Warp into your face. The Genestealers can then just run across the table. While warriors can use Mycetic Spores to get where they need to go.

 

But the core of the SW army can easily handle things and Lone Wolves can be engines of destruction. Mech is a an added plus here for getting our guys around since Nids still have issues cracking it.

 

 

The main thing a close range army like SW's need to be wary of is to watch for the Nids' new assault tricks. (Mycetic Spores, Lash Whip spam, Bone Swords, and Mawloc hit-and-run). Now I'm not saying that there aren't threats from other things in the army, but they are things we have seen a burned down. Handle the old tricks, learn to counter the new tricks, and rejoice that while we may see 20 Genestealers in a unit.... them and the Broodlord are not the monsters we remember.

 

 

While grabbing an Inquisitor and Mystics is an option for the deep strike counter, it comes down to the attitude of the player at the helm of the army. SW's can get the job done without the assistance of the big ][, but its to each his own.

[Roland Durendal]

Go cheap with 2 Lone Wolves with Termie Armor, TH/SS and a wolf or 2. Run those bad boy up field and take down any MC that get's in their way. And face it, if they're shooting those guys, they're not shooting the other units in your army that have strong ranged attacks. And since he'salready I1, who cares if they have lash whipsor any other eequipment that modifies your or their I, you go last regardless! Having use these guys extensively the past few months, and having had a few recent games against the new 'Nids, I can guarantee they are the bees knees.

[hmk17]

I concur, Lone Wolves are amazing here. I'm not unconvinced that Dreadnoughts could see their way back into lists thanks to Nids. If you are going slow from the get go, it doesn't matter if they have an Initiative debuff.

 

What you mistake is that Lash Whips go on the slow MC's. The only MC they can go on is the Hive Tyrant and he ain't rolling on I:1. The only other ways a MC gets the benefit of Lash Whips is to attack something already in close combat with one or it has come in on a Mycetic Spore. (Go Go better Drop Pod)

 

The MC's are the things we already know how to kill effectively. Barring the Mawloc and Tyrgon(s), the Heavy support section moves as slow as ever for Nids. It's when you give things with I:4 or higher the ability to ALWAYS go first in close combat no matter who they face... that's the tricks we have to learn to counter.

 

 

Last time I played my Nid army in Apoc, a Death Company squad burned through my Hive Tyrant and Tyrant Guard retinue. It took them 2 turns and some craptastic rolls from me, but they got the job done by just throwing out attacks. Enter new codex, and we have a different story in that scenario. The Hive Tyrant can now supress the Death Company Initiative to 1 while both him and the retinue can be equipped with boneswords, throwing out 13 total armor ignoring Force Weapon attacks before the Death Company can swing.

 

New tricks... new solutions.

[bareserker]

I used to play a " Nid Guy", and regularly slaughtered him. I took Bjorn, mit Twin linked Las Can's +Missile Launcher,Razorback +LasCan's ,Whirlwind and 1/2 Landspeeders mit Assault cans +H/B's. It would also be the 1 foe where OBEL scouts could get a rest, try Scouts with Snipers +Miss/launch. Use your cover and hog the back of the board.Also Long Fangs mit Lass/Cans +Miss launch's. (All the Lass Cans are for you M.C's..... "Kill Em ALL !"). If he puts stuff on the board in plain sight ,go first and start killing the big stuff.

Finally ,I very rarely took plasma weapons, any weapon that'll kill ya ,has got to be cr*p ! When it comes to troops a squad of Termies mit Assault Can/Missile Lau can be very useful as well.

" Murder them Bugs !"

[Stormbrow II]

However, the Tervigon is a lumbering blob of an HQ slot

HQ? I've not seen anyone playing using these as HQ's. Those slots are taken by Alpha Warriors and Tyrants.

 

The only MC they can go on is the Hive Tyrant and he ain't rolling on I:1.

The Alpha Warrior or Warrior Prime (whatever it is) get Lashwhips too.

 

I've found that Trygons are being deployed on the board more and more due to the fact they can move, fleet and assault when they begin on the table, unlike when they deep strike, and if you shoot at them you're not shooting the faster stuff like Flyrants and Stealers.