No Luck :(

[rodgers37]

Hey guys,

I really like Space Wolves, and i like the models, and i even like the way i started to paint them....

But in game, i'm just not doing it with them, i have taken advice, read up lots ect, but still can't do it...

I'm starting to look at offloading them, so i can play another army, and hopefully have more luck,

So if anyone could help me out, this is what i have:

HQ:

Logan

Njal

Ragnar

Rune Priest

Bjorn (kind of, havn't finished modeling him.....)

Wolf Priest(ulrick)

3 Wolf Lord (well i made three models, planning to use them as wolf Lords)

 

Elitle:

24/5 Wolf Guard (with loads of diffrent weapons combos)

5 Wolf Scouts

(Dreadnaught, if not being used as Bjorn...plasma cannon)

 

TRoops:

30 Grey Hunters (2 of each gun, power weapons, power fists, standerds....)

11 Blood Claws

 

Transport

Razorback (LC)

5x Drop Pod

 

Fast:

30 Fen.Wolves

 

Heavy:

All LC predator

Land Raider. Redeemer

Whirlwind

most of the weapons from 2 devastor boxes (made 2 LC, 2 ML, 2 MM so far, but have bodies to make the rest of LC and HBs...wasted the plasma cannons, trying to convert....)(for Long Fangs obviously)

 

so as you can i have plenty of stuff, i come up against all kinds of armies, so can't really pin down one tactic, or army list, i've just had no luck,,

so if anyone has any ideas (or wants to buy anything :D) then that would be great.

Thanks

[Brother Martinus]

sounds like you have equiped your self well to comment ppl will need a load out of sorts even one list you made verses whome ever lite fir instance

 

1500 vs Chaos SM or 2000 vs Orks

 

I would like to see these lists even if I dont come up with help im sure others longer in the fang will :D

 

 

Edit my lame spelling soz

[rodgers37]

Thats one of the problems....i make a list, before i play a game normally, sometimes i use it again, sometimes not, i have posted a few lists on here before, normally getting very good advice, but it either ends up, me not having everything i need, or i just don't play it for one reason or another.....

My lists tend to have either Logan and Wolf Guard (which i have only played against Orks and daemons, which arn't the best armies to use it against)

or use all 30 grey hunters, supported by other stuff (today, against Nids, i have 30 grey hunters, barley upgraded, 5 long fangs, 2 LRs, razorback, Rune priest and Bjorn.....)

I really just think i'm not good at playing Marines, of any sort, i started well with Chaos, but got worse and worse......

[MaveriK]

well for starters..

 

1) how well do you know the Space Wolves Codex?

2) how many games have you played? and how large of a game?

3) how long have you played Warhammer 40K?

4) who do you play against with? are they experienced players?

 

and give us a typical army list of yours!

[TheLastHuzzah]

Rodgers,

 

Can you give us a sample army list or something to go off of? I see that you have plenty of stuff, but we need to know what your standard tactics are and where you have the most problems. Throw together an "all-comers" army that you would use and let us take a look at it to see where it can be tweaked.

 

-Huzzah

 

Edit: Maverik beat me to it.

[MaveriK]

Thats one of the problems....i make a list, before i play a game normally, sometimes i use it again, sometimes not, i have posted a few lists on here before, normally getting very good advice, but it either ends up, me not having everything i need, or i just don't play it for one reason or another.....

My lists tend to have either Logan and Wolf Guard (which i have only played against Orks and daemons, which arn't the best armies to use it against)

or use all 30 grey hunters, supported by other stuff (today, against Nids, i have 30 grey hunters, barley upgraded, 5 long fangs, 2 LRs, razorback, Rune priest and Bjorn.....)

I really just think i'm not good at playing Marines, of any sort, i started well with Chaos, but got worse and worse......

 

practice makes perfect, learn from your mistakes! a true son of Russ doesn't quit so easily! that is for the likes of the weak and narrow minded, other chapters and xeno's alike. If everyone here just gave up because they kept losing then there wouldn't be anyone to play against. EVERYONE here has had their days like yours, you grow from it!

 

you have EVERYTHING in your list you gave us from your collection to have a nice balanced army. You can go either way, from a shooty list to a drop pod/mech list. Don't be so eager to earn a place amongst the greatest of Russ, your saga will come to you. Just be smart about how you use your packs, compliment each pack to crush your foe. Know your enemy's strengths and weakness, like a wolf... hunt then down piece by piece! know your codex! know each pro's and con's to each pack the Space Wolf codex has to offer! don't give up to quickly young bloodclaw, take it as a challenge! for if you walk away... your name will be forgotten in the halls of the Fang.

[rodgers37]

Basically,

I have been playing 40k for about a year and a half (starting with Chaos),

Played a couple of other armies, buying a few bits (not whole armies, borrowing bits from other friends....)

decided i didn't like Chaos anymore/was playing poorley with them, and didn't want to paint them, and then Space Wolves came out.

 

So i have been playing Space Wolves since the new dex, so on a rough guess, i would have said i have played around 20 1500 point games, 1/2 Bigger (3/4000 point, in APOC) games, and a few either at 500 or 1750, so have played plently of times, know the Dex really well.

The players i play agaisnt vary, e.g one person, came 3rd at GT last year....and another one, is a 11 year old, who just about knows the rules..... (So a lot of difference) and there is pretty much every army, apart from Black templars, and a lot of varients in the diffrent armies as well (Orks for example, a Nob Biker player, a complete Horde player, and i'll just throw in some of everything player, and a Nob's in turkks player)

I have won a few games, i play the Nobs in trukks most often, and have gotten 2/3 draws (but also 3/4 loses) against them, not wining.....

 

Its getting to the stage where i think, why should i play these Wolves?

I'm not enjoying them that much really,

I playtested a Seer Council, against my Friend, against Tau, and the the Orks in trukk's, and absolutly wiped him both times (with only 1 Seer Council as well)

So i'm more inclined to sell my army (but i have spent the best part of £400 on it....and won't get that back.....)

but the other problem is, i do like them.....so don't know what to do :S

[TheLastHuzzah]

Rodgers,

 

I see that you use a lot of the Special characters, what size games do you typically play?

[rodgers37]

Normally only 1500 points (which is one of the problems...) know one really likes playing bigger games that much....i can sometimes push to 1750. but not often....

[Spacefrisian]

Maverik forgot to ask....

 

5) How do you play youre Spacewolves?

 

Seems handy to know.

 

BTW not to be rude but you arent one of those "Flavor of the day players" i hope, if so that could also be a reason why everything doesn't play out as they should be.

[TheLastHuzzah]

I would say the first step is dropping those characters in 1500, I'm not against them but they eat a large chunk of points in anything under 2k. I mean for Bjorn you can grab an extra GH squad and a vindicator/pred depending on how you load them out (I realize you may not have the models, but just an example).

[rodgers37]

Maverik forgot to ask....

 

5) How do you play youre Spacewolves?

 

Seems handy to know.

 

BTW not to be rude but you arent one of those "Flavor of the day players" i hope, if so that could also be a reason why everything doesn't play out as they should be.

 

No not really,

I mainly played Chaos, but got bored of them in the end, just tested out other armies (necrons, and Eldar) because my friends had them, but didn't really want to play them.

And i thought i would really like Space Wolves (that added, to someone saying how good they would be :D) because i didn't really want to go for a out and out torney army, but something, that i could have fun playing with, and use competitivley....

I would rather play more LOTR tbh, just have a 1500/2000 point 40k army, and focus on LOTR, but know one in Norwich seems to play it.......

But i do like playing 40k, i look foward to thursday, but when i get into a game, i so often find it going wrong, sometimes i play them really well, and seem to be doomed in the first couple of turns, and pull out a draw or less often a win, and they are enjoyable games, but the otehr 90% of games, just seems to be me dieing...... ;) which isn't quite as fun really.....

[MaveriK]

Its getting to the stage where i think, why should i play these Wolves? I'm not enjoying them that much really, I playtested a Seer Council, against my Friend, against Tau, and the the Orks in trukk's, and absolutly wiped him both times (with only 1 Seer Council as well) So i'm more inclined to sell my army (but i have spent the best part of £400 on it....and won't get that back.....) but the other problem is, i do like them.....so don't know what to do :S

 

<_< might as well wait until april, maybe you'll fancy Blood Angels. Then in october the much anticipated Space Hobo's are released, a neutral force, hitchhiking across the galaxy fighting for the title of best bandwagon warrior. The only reason your not enjoying them that much is because you aren't wining. Be grateful there is a hobby at all to play. Nobody likes to lose, its not that fun, just be grateful you can and are able to play the game. It's NOT always about winning! I've met and made allot of good friends because of this, including people online here at the FANG.

[rodgers37]

No, its not that i'm not wining, well it kidna is, i don't mind tight games, what ever the result, like my game today against Nids, Turn 5, it was a draw, turn 6 he won it, that kinda game, where half my army doesn't die in the first 2 turns, is fine, but when i play Drop Pod armies (which is why i like the most) i just can't win easily at all (with Wolf Guard or Grey Hunters)

I don't get every new army, i have got one new army, i didn't get MArines, or Orks, or Guard, i will not be getting Blood Angles (i don't like Marines very much.....)

I don't change teams with Football, i didn't decide, oh Norwich got relegated, i think i'll support Man U now......

 

Its just i don't enjoy playing Space Wolves, apart from the socal part of the game, the actuall playing is boring, wether i win or not, 1/2 games, i have won really easily, and thats not that fun, as your opponent doesn't get a look in.....

[Brother Martinus]

Sounds to me that maybe the game its self is not for you but is for your friends and you dont want tyo get left out?

 

If so well maybe you should surgest other reasons to meet up as im not sure on your age I will surgest the pub (off to my local soon lol) or ice scating or what what ever just have fun

 

If im wrong then apologies for miss reading :(

 

Mmmmm some fine ales will be drunk tonight bit of an IPA man when I cant get to the Fang for some real ales <_<

[Skambankt]

No, its not that i'm not wining, well it kidna is, i don't mind tight games, what ever the result, like my game today against Nids, Turn 5, it was a draw, turn 6 he won it, that kinda game, where half my army doesn't die in the first 2 turns, is fine, but when i play Drop Pod armies (which is why i like the most) i just can't win easily at all (with Wolf Guard or Grey Hunters)

I don't get every new army, i have got one new army, i didn't get MArines, or Orks, or Guard, i will not be getting Blood Angles (i don't like Marines very much.....)

I don't change teams with Football, i didn't decide, oh Norwich got relegated, i think i'll support Man U now......

 

Its just i don't enjoy playing Space Wolves, apart from the socal part of the game, the actuall playing is boring, wether i win or not, 1/2 games, i have won really easily, and thats not that fun, as your opponent doesn't get a look in.....

 

It's not that I don't enjoy a good rant now and then, but if you really want us to help, you have to tell us something of the tactics and lists you use. There isn't really much we can do if you don't drop us some hints here.

I don't think anyone here will encurage you to drop the army just because you have a hard time pulling out a win, if that is what you are after.

The new Space Wolves are one of the "better" armies out there at the moment, so if you just point out to us where things tend to go wrong with you, we would love to offer advice on both armylists and tactics.

[Night Runner]

Hi rodger37,

 

I don't usually like answering these type of posts for my own reasons, but I couldn't help notice that you don't really know what you want. You said you like the Wolves, but don't enjoy playing with them. You would like to win more but not more easily, but you don't mind losing to tight games and that you got bored with chaos and played other armies belonging to friends and had success with the Elder where you wiped the enemy out. Do you see what I'm getting at.

 

I think you need to take a step back and think about what you really want out of a game, why are you war-gaming and what kind of game you like playing. As you said you have already invest 400 sterling on your army. Take some time and decide if you really like playing one off games, or prefer tournaments or maybe you are like me and prefer the campaign where fighting out battles takes on greater meaning due to the narrative and the connection one battle outcome has on the next battle.

 

Then take some more time and try to decide what army you really want to play and why. I have always loved the fluff of First Founding Chapters, but the Space Wolves always had a special place. Since I have a home loan I have been paying for years I decided on one army for 40k and one for Epic and I have stuck with them. Like Maverik said, there was a time I was on a loosing streak, it happens and I didn't like it, I kid you not. These were one off games during the horrible period of hero-hammer like games, where tactics and strategy went down the drain. Where players, usually the younger ones, were more interested in weapon combinations that killed the most rather than in which units were most effective when played within a balanced army. These players were mostly tournament players and they enjoyed the game for that reason, and that is fine with me. So five of my friends and I decided to start campaigns and we never looked back.

 

You have to sit down and do the same thing. In the meantime try help yourself by telling the forum some specific army lists against an army you were crushed by. Give us the enemy's army list to and lets analyze it a bit. See what is happening. It is easy to say you were wiped out, but to understand why will help you avoid it in the future and become a better player. This is also a part of war-gaming, analyzing the the mission and the terrain before the game is only part of it. Contemplating a bit on why, how and what for after the game is the rest.

 

NR <_<

[rodgers37]

Ok, i will try and be as helpful as possible here:

(I do like 40k, i liked playing with Chaos, but some people didn't like playing against Lash, or Abaddon, which where my favourite HQs, so i had to change lists around, and i didn't really find a colour scheme i liked....i would like to be able to play Space Wolves well, and enjoy playing every game.....)

 

Anyway:

Drop Pods, in the majority of my lists, i will use Drop Pods, either with Combi-plasma Wolf Guard, Grey Hunters, maybe try and fit a Rune Priest in there ect.

HQs, I like the special characters (as someone as already pointed out, they are quite pricey, which wasn't a problem for Chaos, Abaddon, for me always killed more than enough, but Bjorn, (my favourite HQ), Njal, and even Logan often will not kill enough to warrent a price. But i fell like i shouldn't take a single rune priest (i havn't really tested out the Wolf Priest yet)

I like to use Grey Hunters, but the have to footlslog or drop pod,

shouldn't be a problem, but it has been for me. (wargear here, doesn't tend to be the problem)

I like to use the Wolves, but they don't seem to do very much.

Long Fangs, i have taken every game since i bought them, and they are normally my best unit, so there solid (running in a squad of 5, 2 ML, 2 LC)

 

Where i really fail, is i fell my balance in my list, i was trying to make a nice balanced 1500 point list one day, and went 2/300 points over.

I often try to fit in an extra Long Fang squad, but always have to much other stuff to do that.

I think i am almost better with no Transport (maybe one drop pod, or the razorback, even if used as a rhino), but the times i have done that, and played capture points, i have not done so well (i.e i either am too static, or die on the way to points, out in the open)

 

So really what i am looking for, is how to support 2/3 units of Grey Hunters, viably...

 

I am starting to come up with my own ideas now,

Maybe trying to run 3 units of Grey Hunters, with 2 squads of Fen Wolves, 2/3 squads of Long Fangs, a Rune Priest (or two), and if i can fit it, some combi-plasma's in a Drop Pod.....

How could i make something like that work (i will try and make a list in a while, just got some other things to do first)

 

Thanks for your help everyone (even though i am a bit of a pain :P)

[rodgers37]

Hey, Thanks Night Runner (was doing my own reply, while you where doing yours :P)

 

I do really want to give it a go with Space Wolves,

I like tournaments/campaigns, problem is, there aren't very many in Norwich, and being 17, i can't easily get to ones in Nottingham, unless others at the club are going....

There is a narrative campaign being set up at the club, so that should be good fun.....

 

I think what i need to do, is start trying to get more games, and take more notice of what i am doing, today for example, i don't really remember that specifically what i did, i remember killing his Mawloc, and luckily beating 7 genestealers in combat, without losing one Grey hunter, but i don't really know why i lost......it was all the Mawloc, 2 Zoonthropes, and one genestealer squad that won it for him, i should have been able to beat him, but it was mostly my fault, for not focusing enough (i was working as well, so that didn't help, having to go off and serve people every now and then...).......

 

I think i might try and sell/trade some bits, so i end up with Less Space Wolves,

And i will start an Eldar army, as a tournament army, on the side, since it worked really well.

 

But for now, if anyone has any suggestions, with the last post i made in mind (and thanks again everyone, for bothering to help me, its great :P).

Thanks

 

One army list i play against (the orks) is something like this:

 

Ghazghull

Warboss (power klaw)

 

8/9 Nobs (cybork bodies, painboy, powerklaw or two, a couple of big chopaz, and the boss pole.waaargh banner things) x2

2 Trukks

 

2 Squads of 30 boyz with Nob and Power klaw....

 

 

There should be a really simple way to beat that, on paper, it doesn't seem like the best possible ork list, he has changed it about, it had 2 warbosses, and all big choppas and one point, but took some stuff out, and put ghazghull in ect

[the jeske]

A dont play drop pod forces they dont work. play mecha.

B You played chaos . I play chaos too. All the other characters in all the other codex do something more then just kill stuff. SW HQs are there to buff the army , to use the special rules or change the FoC they are not there to charge headlong in to stuff.

they are good because they are cheap[rune priests] or because they are good counter units [wl on mount ] and cheap . playing a LR that can be instant deathed is not a good way to play[specially when you play with a drop pod army].

C if you use hvy support [and all short range armies do , just like with chaos, otherwise they aren a viable force against IG or eldar]. then spam them use long fangs en mass with RL , or if you play 1750 3RL/2 lascanons.

[rodgers37]

Yeah, i won't be doing Drop Pods i don't think (i'm trying to trade for Rhino's/Devasators/land speeder)

 

I want to use lots of ML in my Long Fangs, but don't have enough....i'm tyring to get some off people, but not having much success, they are pretty good...

 

Hqs, i think i will mostly try to use my Rune Priest, maybe a Wolf Priest/Lord as well or instead in some cases/variants

 

I'm still having some trouble trying to balance my list,

I suppose i did ok, i got 2 HQ, 1 Elite, 3 Troops, 2 fast, 2 heavy, but not sure if it was really good enough, so will go back to the drawing bored, and probably post my final outcome tomorrow morning, for some real advice.

 

Thanks

[the jeske]

fast ??? why would you take SW fast attack [unless you mean TWC but then again why 2 units at 1500?].

[space wolf]

don't trade away all your pods. I regularly find a use for at least one in every army I build. Nothing like a podding, 2 melta GH pack to take out some heavy armor. The others have the right idea. I rarely take a special character....EVER. Especially in a 1500pt or less game, there is almost no reason to. In my experience, the best way to construct a list is to take almost everything else, then take an hq. An hq should complement what your army does, not be the reason for fielding it.

EX: I just played a game.

 

troops:

GH Pack

1 melta

Pfist

WG w/ frost blade & combi melta

drop pod

 

GH Pack

1 melta

Pfist

WG w/ frost blade & combi melta

rhino

 

GH Pack

1 plasma

pfist

WG w/ frost blade & combi plasma

rhino

 

Elites

Dreadnought with multi-melta

drop pod

 

HS

long fangs

4 missile launchers

 

HQ

rune priest

w/Living lightning.

 

Now here his my point, the HQ I took, was designed to sit back and snipe with my long fangs. With its unlimited range, 7 strength, and potential for a lot of shots, living lighting was perfect for taking out medium to light armor. It complements my fangs quite well. Then I have three packs of GH to do the grunt work. Whether it is taking objectives or destroying the enemy, they are outfitted to take on a multitude of different unit types. The dread is there for additional fire support. (I have a tendency to run up against armor lists). Bottomline, the backbone of your army should be your troops; and being space wolves, you can't do much better when it comes to troop choices. Don't rely on HQ's. Frankly, if you have 2 hq's in an army less than 2000pts, in my experience, you're gunna have a tough time.

[Wispy]

Special characters are cool, but I rarely take them. I'd like to, but I need to paint the models first...

 

If you're going to take a special character, the basic rule is, unless it's apocalypse, only take one. ONE. And build the list around them.

 

fast ??? why would you take SW fast attack [unless you mean TWC but then again why 2 units at 1500?].

I can think of a good reason besides TWC: because land speeders are awesome.

 

 

Drop pods are tricky, and you have to use them smart. Dropping close to the enemy is risky, and unless you're in the position to 1) single out a small portions of their army or 2) can back them up with a lot more targets (such as land speeders and bikes meeting up with them, or meeting up with infiltrated\outflanked scouts), you should probably drop them somewhere close but safe instead. It's too easy for drop pods to become suicide units.

[rodgers37]

Thanks for that list, thats the kinda thing i think i need to use, and use regually...

 

Oh and the fast attack, was two squads of Fen. Wolves, to use as a distraction/cover the Grey Hunters (i.e against outflanking genestealers, or ork hordes....put at the side, or infront, to either charge, or take the charge first, meaning Grey Hunters can then rapid fire, and counter attack :lol:

 

i'm trying to trade 4 drop pods, so i still have one, because i want some more devastator bits, and Rhinos....

Thanks again