Differences between....

[Tomevans]

I have heard a number of things about terminator options in the new SW codex and how they rival the Deathwing in gaming goodness. However, I wanted to hear from the forum's SW players just how spikey your Terminator options are in comparision to the Deathwing. Cheers for your help.

[Ladislao]

The greatest difference is... storm shields, we have the marines one, 3+ inv save, the da have the old version, 4+ inv save and only in cc... so our termy are better... must teh da are cheaper, actualy quite 50% cheaper

[Marek Grimfang]

And counter attack.

[saphius]

More expensive as well. We have the options you don't, for the most part, but we also pay dearly for some of them. Our TH/SS termi is over 150% as expensive as the Marine counterpart. (And don't tell me Counter-Charge is worth 21pts to you or your an idiot). The real thing that will set SW and DA terminators apart is, hate to say it, wound allocation. We can do things you can't and it's the reason Woofwing can be done effectively imo.

[Tomevans]

Wow 21 points for counter charge is a bit steep lol. It seems they are fairly well balanced then, the way some people were talking Deathwing was dead. Still just another lesson to never fear the hype.

[Grey Mage]

I have heard a number of things about terminator options in the new SW codex and how they rival the Deathwing in gaming goodness. However, I wanted to hear from the forum's SW players just how spikey your Terminator options are in comparision to the Deathwing. Cheers for your help.

Well... heres the thing- if we get say, a PF+SB marine then theyre the same points- 43, but we get a 10pt discount on the PW+SB... and take a large hit on just about any other combination- 63pts for TH+SS, 48pts for 2xLC, etc... and no fearless *for good or bad*.

 

Advantages- 3++ Storm Shields, can have 10 man units, more shooting options *combis* and the ability to take some cheaper PW+SB troopers.

Disadvantages- No apothecary of standard bearer, cant be taken as elites if taken as troops, the HQ that unlocks that ability is more than double the price of belial.

 

*Shrugs* I think that as an army DW has an advantage over pure TDA WW, but theyre fairly comparable.

[SamaNagol]

Far more versatily. Cheaper standard units. Better Claws. Better 'Librarians'. More expensive but better TH/SS models. More expensive but better SC. No teleporting. No DW Teleport Attack. No Fearless.

[Spacefrisian]

To sum it up.

 

-Cheaper with standard wargear than Deathwing TDA, can become much more expensive.

-Counter attack/ accute senses instead of Fearless.

-Not restricted to 5 men can take 3 to 10 men.

-Cannot teleport, so no Deathwing assault.

-Logan is over twice as expensive as Belial.

-Sw Wolfwing has more Wargear options (even Melta bombs).

 

That should pretty much sum it up.

[Chodjinn]

Or more simply, SW are cool on every level, DA wear girly skirts are literally green with jealously ;) while Deathwing have painted their armour white in readiness for an early surrender

[Max_Dammit]

Or more simply, SW are cool on every level, DA wear girly skirts are literally green with jealously :) while Deathwing have painted their armour white in readiness for an early surrender

Real mature, we dont have to go in that, he's here for a question and not to get flamed ;)

[dizzy-xc]

Far more versatily. Cheaper standard units. Better Claws. Better 'Librarians'. More expensive but better TH/SS models. More expensive but better SC. No teleporting. No DW Teleport Attack. No Fearless.

 

Not the way I read it. The way I interpreted the rules, Teleporting is discouraged, but not illegal.

[SamaNagol]

I would be mightily impressed by you managing to teleport onto the battlefield without the 'Deep Strike' rule.

[dizzy-xc]

P61: NB: Although other chapter often teleport into battle, the space wolves have a deep mistrust of this tactic/technology and prefer to fight on foot.

 

Or something like that...

[AdeptusDavidus]

Far more versatily. Cheaper standard units. Better Claws. Better 'Librarians'. More expensive but better TH/SS models. More expensive but better SC. No teleporting. No DW Teleport Attack. No Fearless.

 

Not the way I read it. The way I interpreted the rules, Teleporting is discouraged, but not illegal.

 

The description of TDA in our (SW) codex never says that SW models in TDA can teleport, so our Terminators can't teleport. (Compare: "Any model wearing Terminator armour can be teleported onto the battlefield. They may always start the game in reserve and arrive using the deep strike rules, even if it is not part of the mission being played." - from the description of TDA in Codex: Space Marines. We don't have those lines.) Remember, we're stuck with the wargear in our codex - much like how the Deathwing has inferior storm shields to ours, because they must abide by the wargear rules in their specific codex.

 

Now, I'm generally laid-back enough that if an opponent wanted to teleport his SW termies, and told me so beforehand, I'd probably be okay with it (of course, he'd have to let me teleport mine, too :P), but I really don't know how common it would be to have an opponent allow it.

[Max_Dammit]

To kill this FAST

 

Page 102 SM Codex, TDA entry 5th text box

 

Page 61 SW Codex, The line says they dont like to use it, but doesnt give you the rules for doing so, so how are you going to teleport with something that doesnt give the deepstrike rule? Going to "borrow" it from the SM dex, thats not how it works.

 

Cool, so manny reply´s before i managed to get my SW and SM dex out =P

[Spacefrisian]

Or say they jump from a thunderhawk flying over?

[dizzy-xc]

I see how you see it, but the point is, the Space wolves prefer to go to battle without using it. Thats not to say they cant or dont use it. If your opponent says no, it'd be hard to argue being able to use it, I agree. But the way I see it, TDA and Space Marine Battle Barges go hand in hand with teleporters. :)

[Chodjinn]

Or more simply, SW are cool on every level, DA wear girly skirts are literally green with jealously ;) while Deathwing have painted their armour white in readiness for an early surrender

Real mature, we dont have to go in that, he's here for a question and not to get flamed :)

 

want me to go sit in the corner then sunshine? :( Chill out, you're getting fruity over a tabletop wargame. My post was not insulting or flaming, or incorrect ;) , it was a bit of fun and nowt else. There's at least 1 recent thread I remember on this topic which showed an excellent comparison of a 'Wolfwing' list versus Deathwing, from a deathwing player, and covered all the things mentioned here and more. I could use the search function, but the kettle just boiled and I'm parched!

[dizzy-xc]

Oh, and btw, just to make sure I didnt miss any updates, the DA are limited to 15 Termies, plus IC's and the Space Wolves can take 30 plus IC's? Thats right, isnt it?

[Max_Dammit]

If you take Logan you can field 60 :huh:

[Max_Dammit]

Or more simply, SW are cool on every level, DA wear girly skirts are literally green with jealously :) while Deathwing have painted their armour white in readiness for an early surrender

Real mature, we dont have to go in that, he's here for a question and not to get flamed :huh:

 

want me to go sit in the corner then sunshine? :P Chill out, you're getting fruity over a tabletop wargame. My post was not insulting or flaming, or incorrect :P , it was a bit of fun and nowt else. There's at least 1 recent thread I remember on this topic which showed an excellent comparison of a 'Wolfwing' list versus Deathwing, from a deathwing player, and covered all the things mentioned here and more. I could use the search function, but the kettle just boiled and I'm parched!

I am chill, the fang is a more rowdy place than the rest of B&C and i like it that way, but not every thread in the fang needs these type of posts.

[AdeptusDavidus]

I see how you see it, but the point is, the Space wolves prefer to go to battle without using it. Thats not to say they cant or dont use it. If your opponent says no, it'd be hard to argue being able to use it, I agree. But the way I see it, TDA and Space Marine Battle Barges go hand in hand with teleporters. :huh:

 

I understand your stance - and I agree with the idea that TDA goes hand in hand with teleporters and Battle Barges and frankly think that combination is a central aspect of Marine-ness - but RAW is 100% against it. For that reason, if you want to teleport your Terminators but still want to play with the Wolves 'dex, you'll need your opponents permission to do so.

 

So, from a fluff perspective, sure, Space Wolves Terminators can teleport, but dislike it. From a rules perspective, though, they cannot teleport at all.

[Grey Mage]

Far more versatily. Cheaper standard units. Better Claws. Better 'Librarians'. More expensive but better TH/SS models. More expensive but better SC. No teleporting. No DW Teleport Attack. No Fearless.

 

Not the way I read it. The way I interpreted the rules, Teleporting is discouraged, but not illegal.

Show me one line in the codex, anywhere, that says our terminators can deep strike without a drop pod.

 

Give me a quote and a page number, cause until then your absolutely wrong.

[SamaNagol]

It says in the Codex that our warriors are ferocious and charge into combat with terrifying howls and great fervour, so I am going to give them all Furious Charge.

 

Oh wait....

[dizzy-xc]

It says in the Codex that our warriors are ferocious and charge into combat with terrifying howls and great fervour, so I am going to give them all Furious Charge.

 

Oh wait....

 

lmao