First encounters with the new 'Nids

[minigun762]

From what I've heard from others Hormagaunts will tear through Berserkers. For 8 Berserkers they can have 21 Hormagaunts who will either strike at the same time with 2 attacks each (re-rolling 1's to hit) wounding on 4s (you charge them) or striking before you with 3 attacks each wounding on 4s (them charging you) and for an extra 2 points per model they can get a re-roll to wound when they charge you as they'll be S4 vs T4 with a poison attack. They might need to be charged just after flaming me thinks.

 

If Berserkers charge (assuming no Fist for a second) its

32 attacks vs WS5(right?) = 16 hits vs T3 = 13.3 wounds vs 6+ = 11.1 dead + 3.5 from BP = 14.6 dead Gaunts

 

It looks like it might be a case of "whoever gets the charge wins".

 

To be honest though, Hormogaunts don't seem that horrible if you have any amount of ranged anti-infantry. A few Battle Cannons or Frag Missiles seem like they'd a fair job of thinning the numbers, especially when coupled with Bolters.

 

Read something scary... someone in a test game with the new codex took 5 of the things that spawn termaguants. In a couple turns it went from 40 termaguants to over 200 and they had to use coins as count as termaguants. That seems like a nasty tactic... especially if they are camping objectives .

 

I hope I'm missing something.

I have heard that Tervigons blow up or something when they die, taking nearby Gaunts with them. Of course it would have to be a considerable amount to compensate for having 200 on the board.

 

They're also HQs so I don't know how they took 5.

My understanding is that if you take 10 Guants, then they can count as a Troop choice (and therefore be scoring).

So you can have 5 SCORING MCs that poop out piles of Gaunts.

[Cornelias]

i'm planning on running twin vindi's for a few games and see how that pans out, possibly even 3 depending on the points limit.

[Ashe Darke]

It also only makes basic gaunts which are a bit crap. They have an assault 1 bolt pistol, nothing amazing. In kill points you'll be kicking yourself in the foot for taking one of them.

 

EDIT: Also in the Apoc game they can't use coins as the rule states that when you run out of models, any excess gaunts die. Surrounding it will also stop them from coming out.

[Cale]

Each squad of termagaunts allows you to bring one Tervigon as a troops choice, so five is the maximum you can have (three in troops, along with three units of termagaunts) and two as HQs.

 

Yes, they can turn out a huge number of termagaunts, but termagaunts are just not that scary. They die in droves to shots or combat, and don't do all that much damage in return. The Tervigon is a pretty good troop choice, but I'm not entirely convinced it's the best. I think that might still be Genestealers.

[Ashe Darke]

Ahhh missed that bit, good catch Cale. Still they can't field more than they can represent with models so unless you have a butt load of gaunts then it's kinda pointless. There's a 42% chance that it will stop with each roll as well which isn't good.

[Cale]

Yeah, they tend to shut down fairly quickly, which helps limit their impact on the game. Honestly, the FNP buff and simply being a six-wound, scoring, t6 monster are probably more important.

 

They're huge pushovers in combat, though. Just not scary at all, on their own.

[Legatus]

Tervigons run out of Termagaints (cannot produce any more) on any double roll of the 3d6. If I am not mistaken the chances for a double with 3d6 are about 44% (edit). So on average a Tervigon will produce about 15 Gaunts per game. There will of course be games where he pumps out 12+ for several turns in a row, but there will also be games where he will rpoduce a unit of 6 and then be spent.

 

Edit: Got the wrong math.

[Ashe Darke]

This tactic is a minimum of 950pts as well. You have to buy 5 of them and they're not cheap, and then 30 gaunts, your 3 units at minimum strength. It's kinda cool and funny but I wouldn't do it.

 

I've done some test rolls out of curiosity and most of them have been doubles. Like 70%. My mates played nids vs nids last night and they both stopped really early on. I laughed.

[minigun762]

Each squad of termagaunts allows you to bring one Tervigon as a troops choice, so five is the maximum you can have (three in troops, along with three units of termagaunts) and two as HQs.

 

Ohh thats how it works huh? I thought the Tervigon was added to the Gaunt squad.

 

Thats better then.

 

Yeah, they tend to shut down fairly quickly, which helps limit their impact on the game. Honestly, the FNP buff and simply being a six-wound, scoring, t6 monster are probably more important

 

This is my issue. The damn thing is like an entire Plague Marine squad but better. I have no idea on the price tag but 6 naked PM = 138 points so if its around that price or cheaper, its a steal.

[Ashe Darke]

This is my issue. The damn thing is like an entire Plague Marine squad but better. I have no idea on the price tag but 6 naked PM = 138 points so if its around that price or cheaper, its a steal.

It's very close to 7 PMs. The FNP thing can only be used on a single unit within 12. Whether it can target itself or not I don't know. I imagine so as it's within 12 of itself. It also has to pay for that psychic power as well. They don't come with it.

[Cale]

It does way less damage than a Plague Marine squad, though. It has an AP:5, Bs:3 heavy bolter--hardly an impressive ranged attack--and three ws3, s5, I:1 MC swings in combat, which are, again, just not that dangerous. It's mainly just tough. Its offense is pretty limited.

[Ashe Darke]

I'm thinking Thousand Sons will do OK against vanilla big bugs. They have a 3+ save so any 6s to wound from the inferno bolts is a wound gone. Also against lashwhips you can position the sorcerer out of base contact (best to hide in cover) so any 6's to wound with the force weapon can kill it although isn't anything to rely on. Warptime will help for non-Shadow of the Warp ones. The 4++ will also take the edge off the monstrous creature attacks.

 

Not amazing but interesting for people who do run TS armies.

 

EDIT: The Tervigon weapon is range 18 and assault 4 so not quite a heavy bolter.

[Argon]

2 BS4 S8 shots will stun 0.89 Rhinos. This puts them up there with Vendettas for transport killing.

 

Is this on average? Because that's less than one Rhino.

 

MathHammer is so much fun :lol: .

[Ashe Darke]

I've read something interesting about the Nid weapons that is somewhat of a glaring oversight. All the weapons like Lashwhips, Boneswords, Scything Talons and Rending Claws are actually deemed special weapons and so they have to choose what special effect they want for the round of combat, they don't stack and there is no rule stating they can regardless.

[minigun762]

2 BS4 S8 shots will stun 0.89 Rhinos. This puts them up there with Vendettas for transport killing.

 

Is this on average? Because that's less than one Rhino.

 

MathHammer is so much fun :) .

 

Haha yes its the average. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

 

A more useful way to put it is if 3 Hive Guards shoot at a Rhino, you will get 2.67 glances/penetrating hits on average.

[saintevil]

Has anyone faced pyrovores? And how do they do? I dont have a problem with facing nids coz the guy i play against regularly is not very good on tactics. He hasnt won a game against me in over a year.

[The Black Watch]

On the obliterator note.. it sounds like Hive guard are nasty, but it also sounds like in a shooting fight vs each other obliterators would win.... whole 2+sv. And oblits have a huge advantage over Hive guard, the closer the range the nastier their weapons get.

Yes but don't forget the no line of sight rule. If it was my hive guard, I'd just move them somewhere your oblits can't see them and shoot away. Hive guard are really designed to kill Rhino's as its pretty reliable at that.

 

EDIT: Also in the Apoc game they can't use coins as the rule states that when you run out of models, any excess gaunts die. Surrounding it will also stop them from coming out.

It says in the codex if you run out of models or cannot place them for whatever reason the excess are destroyed. And since they stop producing on any double I think the Tervigon is more of a gimmick unit. Might be good against guard but not power armour.

 

Has anyone faced pyrovores? And how do they do? I dont have a problem with facing nids coz the guy i play against regularly is not very good on tactics. He hasnt won a game against me in over a year.

Their gun is a just a heavy flamer and they count as having a power weapon. But their statline is pretty poor. There are so many more interesting Elite choices, I can't see this one popping up much, despite the pretty cool mini (as opposed to the awful biovore which looks like a stupid grinning cat).

[saintevil]

Tnx. Was just wondering because no one here has got the new dex yet and every one was discussing everything else cept the pyrovores. But i think my oblit, defiler and zerk list should sort these new roaches out.

[Ashe Darke]

It says in the codex if you run out of models or cannot place them for whatever reason the excess are destroyed. And since they stop producing on any double I think the Tervigon is more of a gimmick unit. Might be good against guard but not power armour.

Yeah, that was the bit I was on about, not something from BRB.

Yes but don't forget the no line of sight rule. If it was my hive guard, I'd just move them somewhere your oblits can't see them and shoot away. Hive guard are really designed to kill Rhino's as its pretty reliable at that.

They're only range 24. If they can be avoided until the near the end of the game why not? If they want to shoot me then they need to come into LoS where they can be shot.

[The Black Watch]

I've read something interesting about the Nid weapons that is somewhat of a glaring oversight. All the weapons like Lashwhips, Boneswords, Scything Talons and Rending Claws are actually deemed special weapons and so they have to choose what special effect they want for the round of combat, they don't stack and there is no rule stating they can regardless.

Are you sure about this? I don't have the codex on me right now but I don't remember it referring to them as special weapons. The HT gets Lashwhip, Bonesword an Scything Talons as standard and it would be a bit daft if he could only effectively use one at a time.

[Ashe Darke]

It's was something I read here. They're not normal CCW weapons, they have special rules making them special weapons.

[minigun762]

With so many people having Termicide in their armies already, whats the best way to use them?

Drop them next to Zoas and hope to get through their 3++?

Drop them on HG and try to stack wounds?

Sacrifice them on Hive Tyrants?

[Brother Hadafix]

Tervigons run out of Termagaints (cannot produce any more) on any double roll of the 3d6. If I am not mistaken the chances for a double with 3d6 are about 44% (edit). So on average a Tervigon will produce about 15 Gaunts per game. There will of course be games where he pumps out 12+ for several turns in a row, but there will also be games where he will rpoduce a unit of 6 and then be spent.

 

Edit: Got the wrong math.

 

Well isnt mathhammer great! ;) I had a friend produce about 50 of the rotten things before it clunked out. The Parasite is horrible as well, producing 20 swarms from my dead guys.

 

In unit vs unit, bugs die. But if played well so the units interact, its a horrible way to go.

 

edit: got units name wrong

[The Black Watch]

With so many people having Termicide in their armies already, whats the best way to use them?

Drop them next to Zoas and hope to get through their 3++?

Drop them on HG and try to stack wounds?

Sacrifice them on Hive Tyrants?

I reckon the HT is the scariest thing but with no inv save, termicide might just work. Unless he has a couple of Tyrant Guard...

 

Well isnt mathhammer great! ;) I had a friend produce about 50 of the rotten things before it clunked out. The Swarm Lord is horrible as well, producing 20 swarms from my dead guys.

Don't you mean the Parasite of Mortrex? Not the Swarmlord.

[Ashe Darke]

With so many people having Termicide in their armies already, whats the best way to use them?

Drop them next to Zoas and hope to get through their 3++?

Drop them on HG and try to stack wounds?

Sacrifice them on Hive Tyrants?

The biggest nasty thing that isn't getting a cover save. Warriors that aren't in cover would be good.

 

Thropes should be felled by bolter fire as it's weight of numbers not high S low AP that will do it for you.