First encounters with the new 'Nids

[Cale]

It shoudn't change your tactics either way. Even if you're willing to let your opponents cheat with it, it's still the least accurate large blast in the entire game.

 

It's just not that scary, no matter how you cut it. Every time you see a Mawloc, you should thank (or mock, depending on your mood) your opponent for not taking a Trygon instead, since the Trygon is actually a good monster.

 

Personally, though, I don't intend to let my opponents cheat with it, so it's even less scary.

[Night Lord Dred]

If you let your opponent play by the rules, every two turns hes going to be able to wipe out any CSM squad on the field. He's also able to jump on top of your objective on the last turns. Hmm, and he also pushes them off the objectives. Oh right, and the fact that he still requires some serious firepower to take down.

 

Yea, youre right, we shouldnt talk tactics....

[Cale]

Any Chaos Space Marine unit on the field. Well, the ones that aren't in transports anyway. Not the ones that are too spread out to hit them all with a large blast template, either. Nor in the instances where your opponent rolls any ones when rolling to wound. Or in the instances where it scatters.

 

No, the Mawloc will not "wipe out" a squad every other turn. If it were as likely to do so as you apparently think, three basalisks would wipe out your entire army, turn one, every game. Don't be an idiot. There're a lot of things aside from the rules standing in the way of the Mawloc being effective.

 

As I said before, even if you cheat with it, it's still the least accurate large blast template in the game. Sure, it's got a decent strength and good AP, but it only fires once every other turn, and if it does that it isn't being a monster at all. For its cost, using it as a barrage weapon is an incredible waste of points--one you should not really be particularly worried about. If your opponent chooses to play it this way, be glad that you're playing against an idiot.

 

Stay in your Rhinos, in general, like you would anyway. If you're out of your Rhinos and it's currently burrowed, spread out a little bit. Thats about the extent of the special consideration the Mawloc warrants, and that's not "tactics." It's nothing more than refraining from being incompetent.

[Seahawk]

it's still the least accurate large blast template in the game

Technically, a Master of Ordnance's is worse, with a max scatter of 18" :D.

 

Having tried out the Mawloc correctly, it's pretty much a waste. Arrives, kills 2 guys, gets shot and dies. The Trygon, on the other hand, makes quite a mess before dying. As Cale said, be glad you play against someone using a Mawloc in that way; they're playing 170 points short.

[Night Lord Dred]

@Cale

 

Congrats on being a condescending troll. Maybe tactics would involve, you know, how to best kill the thing after it squashes a squad/tank (aka keeping formation to protect each other)? But no, youre too busy being an arrogant know-it-all to discuss that.

 

Losing over half a squad of CSM to one attack IS wiping them out.

 

The Mawloc landing on you is not cheating. If you disagree, fine, but either way it is unacceptable to accuse someone of cheating with such a gray area rule (especially when RaI, as seen by GW themselves, is to deepstrike right on top of the enemy - I guess GW cheats too). Using it as a hit and run monster that can fight anywhere on the battlefield is hardly useless. Its still a T6, W6 MC.

 

Having tried out the Mawloc correctly, it's pretty much a waste. Arrives, kills 2 guys, gets shot and dies. The Trygon, on the other hand, makes quite a mess before dying. As Cale said, be glad you play against someone using a Mawloc in that way; they're playing 170 points short.

 

Yea that makes a lot of sense. You know, the Mawloc that has the exact same model size, toughness, wounds and save as the Trygon somehow dies easier than it. So unless you think six Bs 3 S5 Ap5 shots is somehow better than a large S6 ap2 template, I fail to see how the trygon is better purely from your reasoning.

[Seahawk]

I meant prime, sorry, 12 shots. The Mawloc has no way to deal damage when it arrives, other than potentially scattering onto a unit; you don't pull out the large template until you deep strike onto enemy models. Next, it has half the attacks as a Trygon, which it cannot reroll to hit (Mr T has two sets of talons, gets to reroll them). It also does not produce a hole for other reserves to arrive from. Lastly, it has neither Synapse nor Shadow in the Warp to keep it and other models there while denying enemy psychic powers. Thus, aside from potentially hitting a unit, it's next to useless by comparison.

 

But you're right, both die quickly to plasma (or Rail fire). Having plenty of plasma guns can and will be useful.

[Cale]

it's still the least accurate large blast template in the game

Technically, a Master of Ordnance's is worse, with a max scatter of 18" B).

 

Ah, yeah. You're right. The Orbital Bombardment in the Grey Knights and Witch-hunters codices are less accurate, too, since they always scatter.

 

Still, fourth from the bottom is still pretty inaccurate.

 

 

@Cale

 

Congrats on being a condescending troll. Maybe tactics would involve, you know, how to best kill the thing after it squashes a squad/tank (aka keeping formation to protect each other)? But no, youre too busy being an arrogant know-it-all to discuss that.

 

So what are they? It comes up out of the ground, probably near what it was aiming at and probably not on them. They charge it and kill it. Done and done. I'm not sure what sort of tactics you're looking for, here.

 

I wasn't trolling. I wasn't being condescending. Both assertions are baseless, insulting, and uncalled for.

 

Instead, I was trying to help people out by asserting that the Mawloc wasn't something to go changing up their armies or strategies for.

 

If anyone is trolling here, it's you, so I'll thank you to avoid insulting me in such a hypocritical fashion in the future.

 

Losing over half a squad of CSM to one attack IS wiping them out.

 

I think you need to work on your vocabulary. To "wipe out" is "to destroy completely"--this is from the Mirriam Webster dictionary. Destroying less than all of something is not destroying it completely. Destroying less than an entire unit is not wiping it out.

 

Point in fact, lots of stuff can kill half a unit of CSM--and half a unit of CSM can still kill lots of stuff. Heck, half a unit of CSM will beat a Mawloc in combat.

 

 

The Mawloc landing on you is not cheating. If you disagree, fine, but either way it is unacceptable to accuse someone of cheating with such a gray area rule (especially when RaI, as seen by GW themselves, is to deepstrike right on top of the enemy - I guess GW cheats too).

 

It is acceptable to call cheating for what it is. You may disagree, and that's fine, but it is unacceptable for you to try to censor me in the manner you've done here. =P

 

Also, GW doesn't cheat--everyone knows that they're clueless when it comes to their own rules. You, on the other hand, have had the facts placed right in your lap, by me, so you can't claim ignorance as an excuse.

 

Using it as a hit and run monster that can fight anywhere on the battlefield is hardly useless. Its still a T6, W6 MC.

 

It's far less useful than a Trygon, which is basically what I said. This is mainly due to the fact that its WS is 3 instead of 5, it has half as many attacks, and its initiative is one lower. Thats far less damage output in combat, and neither monster does nearly enough out of combat to justify its cost.

 

The Trygon fails because it doesn't perform well enough in combat. Its other tricks don't make up the differences.

 

 

Yea that makes a lot of sense. You know, the Mawloc that has the exact same model size, toughness, wounds and save as the Trygon somehow dies easier than it. So unless you think six Bs 3 S5 Ap5 shots is somehow better than a large S6 ap2 template, I fail to see how the trygon is better purely from your reasoning.

 

The mawloc, as I said above, has half the attacks, worse WS than a Marine, and doesn't strike before a Marine. When it gets charged by the Chaos squad after it shows up (which it does, almost every time) it probably kills one marine. One. And it doesn't even do it before the marine gets to swing.

 

A Trygon's most likely result is five. That's five times more dead marines than the Mawlock, and at higher initiative than those marines. The difference in effectiveness is incredible. There really is no comparison. The Trygon is much, much better, and the fact that you're drawing the comparisons you're drawing while ignoring the other massive differences between the two monsters basically just convinces me that your opinion is fit only to be discarded.

[minigun762]

Next, it has half the attacks as a Trygon, which it cannot reroll to hit (Mr T has two sets of talons, gets to reroll them).

 

Its also WS5 vs WS3, which is the difference of hitting most things on 3's or being punched in the face by a Power Fist on 3's.

 

My guess is that the Mawloc will go the same way as the Doom Zoa. Its a novelty unit for novelty builds. A few standard counters will be introduced and we won't see much of it.

 

EDIT: Nevermind, looks like Cale beat me to the WS difference.

[Night Lord Dred]

I wasn't trolling. I wasn't being condescending. Both assertions are baseless, insulting, and uncalled for.

 

Oh really? Youre not condescending, and somehow I insulted YOU? You mean when you said this:

 

basically just convinces me that your opinion is fit only to be discarded

 

Or this:

 

three basalisks would wipe out your entire army, turn one, every game. Don't be an idiot.

 

Or this:

 

It's nothing more than refraining from being incompetent.

 

Or this:

 

so I'll thank you to avoid insulting me in such a hypocritical fashion in the future.

 

Or this:

 

You, on the other hand, have had the facts placed right in your lap, by me, so you can't claim ignorance as an excuse.

 

Or this:

 

I think you need to work on your vocabulary. To "wipe out" is "to destroy completely"--this is from the Mirriam Webster dictionary

 

 

And thats just within the last two posts. Get off your high horse, especially because youre wrong.

 

For your the ruling on the Mawloc? Wrong. Rules as written (deepstrike rules state anywhere, no constraints), Rules as Interpreted (Other wording within the rule, GW articles) and most importantly how people are playing it (and rules lawyers dont have the balls/will get laughed at in real life) are all in favour of my argument. Your "facts" on my lap are picked up and thrown in the garbage, but thanks anyways ;) .

 

Trygon vs. Mawloc: the Mawloc killed 5 on the way in (and that's being extremely generous on the lowside). That squad is now down to 4 marines. Trygon is at what? 4-5. Mawloc leaves combat and does it all over again. Trygon stays and continues to smash them. They both have their advantages. However, the fact that youre telling me the Mawloc is useless is mind boggling, especially when he's considered by what seems to be the vast majority of tyranid players as the superior choice.

 

Oh, by the way, he *will* wipe out squads. Im sorry you take my wording 100% literally, but the Mawloc *will* kill 7-8 guys, crippling them. Spreading them out is much easier said than done, and even if you manage to do so, youre still playing around him and paying penalties for it (such as avoiding disembarking + rapid firing, making it harder to embark back in rhinos, harder to stay in cover, not deepstriking units in, etc.)

 

I think you should lighten up a bit and open your eyes/mind a bit, and you wont look like such a condescending troll. You probably wont and will continue to insult me, in which case I just hope the mods keep an eye on it.

 

Good day to you

 

EDIT: Also, initiative means nothing against T6 W6 3+ unless youre I1 and tie fists. Chaos marines each have a 7% chance of wounding and theyre already above average in CC. WS also barely means anything in the long run.

[Lord Doyok]

I know my words wont have much weight but I still wanna say something in this matter. I dont play Tyranids and think that all these big bugs is not helping the game becoming more fun.

 

But I think calling players who plays Mawloc-deepstriking-right-under-the-target a cheater is unacceptable. As can be seen/read it in the WD, that act is in the spirit of how GW wants it to be played. It is a grey area and GW has provided a clear answer in the WD. Why the need for this argument?

 

To me, calling this as cheating is at the the same level of rules lawyering as saying BA rhinoes have no doors and Shrike+unit cannot infiltrate and I greatly look down on such act. Just MHO.

[Iron-Daemon Forge]

Can a few memeber please stop make personial comment toword each other before it turn ugly, we have Report button for a reason. I belive this topic is about First encounters with the new 'Nids??

 

Insane Psychopath

[the jeske]

(and that's being extremely generous on the lowside

I dont think so . First of all the squad has to be outside a rhino or on the first level of terrain . It has to be bunched up for that to happen [what never happens against good players and nids dont have a lash like power] and it would have to scater on top of the squad as it cant borrow directlly under it.

 

 

Also, initiative means nothing against T6 W6 3+ unless youre I1 and tie fists

not true. if it was t7-8 and +2 sv then yes. str 4 attack dont matter . a squad of zerkers or a squad of csm has a good chance to kill a trygon or mawlock in one turn [shoting and then charging in] , the difference between a mawlock and a trygon is that the trygon will kill 5 meq before it dies and the mawlock will kill 1 [in hth].

 

 

WS also barely means anything in the long run.

and wrong again . hiting on +3 and hiting on +4 is a world of difference , it even make difference for units like BC [which can make 30+ attacks ] . the ws5 on trygons is huge . it means it hits meqs on +3 , it means that it gets hit by HQs and other MC back on +4 . 2/3 is not the same as 1/2 .

 

 

 

What is the world coming to am agreing with Cale ;/ .

[saintevil]

Wheres Abadon when you need him. Chaos is fighting each other again. Save all that hostility for the bugs. Back to topic, lash seems bit more useless as I fail my psychic tests more but my list hasnt changed one bit and nids still eat my boot treads!