Hear da Lamentation Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 I was reading through some of the posts about the new 'Nids codex last night (great info by the way) and I'm sure I read someone saying the "new genestealers aren't the force the be feared they once were." I've looked and looked today to find the post again ... but of course, no joy. Having had a brief look thru the Nids codex on Sunday .... they have a couple fewer options to take, but are cheaper, still have I6, still have the same number of attacks AND can inflitrate. Seems to me they are at least as good as they used to be. Any feeling on this from those of you who may have faced the new Genestealers? Or who agree with the "unfound" poster about them being weaker? Would love to know, Nids are one of my main opponents. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190148-new-genestealers/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartali Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 The basic troops version can no longer get a 4+ save, meaning they'll die to rapid fire bolters or basic Flamers. Other biomorphs don't look quite as good as the previous ones. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190148-new-genestealers/#findComment-2253293 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Bjoern Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 The Broodlord has some nasty psychic powers. One of them allows the ´nid player to nominate one model in base contact. That Model doesn´t participate in this round of CC. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190148-new-genestealers/#findComment-2253335 Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitewolfmxc Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 The BIG issue with them that makes them suck now is they dont have Flesh hooks (frag grenedaes) anymore , I6 / 7 (from adrenin gland) is nothing when you have a 5+ save and you strike at I 1 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190148-new-genestealers/#findComment-2253339 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hear da Lamentation Posted January 19, 2010 Author Share Posted January 19, 2010 Ahhhh ! So basically - stay in cover and make then assault you ... and while they are doing that .... rapid fire bolter the living daylights out of them. Great ! It will be nice to be able to head towards Genestealers for a change, instead of keeping as far away as possible and hoping to template them to death. Does that Broodlord power require a psychic test? Hopefully - so we get a chance to negate it with a runeweapon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190148-new-genestealers/#findComment-2253347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Bjoern Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Ahhhh ! So basically - stay in cover and make then assault you ... and while they are doing that .... rapid fire bolter the living daylights out of them. Great ! It will be nice to be able to head towards Genestealers for a change, instead of keeping as far away as possible and hoping to template them to death. Does that Broodlord power require a psychic test? Hopefully - so we get a chance to negate it with a runeweapon. Yes, every tyranid psychic power requires one. Rune Priests are a must have. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190148-new-genestealers/#findComment-2253412 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodgers37 Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Well, I played Nids on Sunday (neither of us played particularly well, he was getting to know the new rules, and i just had a crap list....) I lost, and what won him the game, was a unit of Genestealers, outflanking killed of my last squad of Grey Hunters (and my second squad actually...) (which was my fualt, for not hiding them in the LR...) but more importantly, the squad that came on turn 2, that killed only 1 grey Hunter, where a big distraction, I moved that squad of Grey Hunters towards them, with Bjorn as support (who then went off and did something else).... So i think Genestelers are still very useful, and well worth there points.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190148-new-genestealers/#findComment-2253415 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karack Blackstone Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 In my thus far limited experience, they're still useful, they kept rending (way useful to the tyranid player) and can be a pain if not handled properly. I lucked out on getting hit with a unit into a pack of skyclaws led by a JP Wolf Priest yesterday (as of this post) and it was good to see only two rending wound rolls. Otherwise, in large groups they're similar to Blood Claws on the charge, only with rending. Hit hard when dice fall nicely, a bit weaker if they get fewer rend rolls. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190148-new-genestealers/#findComment-2253630 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglespuss Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 Back in 2nd ed. they were the bane of my existence. I still think they are just as scary in this edition, you really have to dedicate something to get rid of them for sure, or they'll really make you pay. And they are SO good for such a cheap points cost!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190148-new-genestealers/#findComment-2253779 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wispy Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 cover is what saves you now... good buy I6. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190148-new-genestealers/#findComment-2253794 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warp Angel Posted January 19, 2010 Share Posted January 19, 2010 They're a lot more points effective than they were, even with reduced options lowering the high-end loadout. As part of a disruptive Tyranid strategy that utilizes Trygons, Myotic Spore Pods, and/or Gargoyles, they have oomph beyond what the unit statline would seem to indicate. Just running across the battlefield isn't really a good idea, though even that is viable behind a swarm of cheap gaunts that give them a 4+ cover save. Lots more ways to use them as part of the more flexible and varied Tyranid Codex than the last edition. From a Killhammer perspective, they are good Cleaners that can fill in as Hunters or Killers depending on the opponent's army composition. Very flexible. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190148-new-genestealers/#findComment-2253799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildfire Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 I would discount the lack of a 4+ save. Most of the experianced players didn't bother with it, better to just take more genestealers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190148-new-genestealers/#findComment-2254448 Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitewolfmxc Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 really think the fact that I 6 /7 can turn to I 1 , and 5+ saves isnt worth by replacing it with 5 points lower lol , they arent the dependable CC elite anymore lol (most cases since its a easy way to counter them now) at least they should have made the Ymgarl genestelers have fleshhooks lol Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190148-new-genestealers/#findComment-2254575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodgers37 Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 really think the fact that I 6 /7 can turn to I 1 , and 5+ saves isnt worth by replacing it with 5 points lower lol , they arent the dependable CC elite anymore lol (most cases since its a easy way to counter them now) at least they should have made the Ymgarl genestelers have fleshhooks lol But if you leave anything to close to the edge of the bored...or don't have anything close enough to shoot it....they can still be devestating.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190148-new-genestealers/#findComment-2254584 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hear da Lamentation Posted January 20, 2010 Author Share Posted January 20, 2010 From the sounds of it - they are still great (which is only fair, as they are a main stay of the 'Nids army) BUT aren't the Uber close combat monsters they once were. Let's face it ... in close combat they were pretty unbeatable points for points. Good to know - thanks guys. The infiltrate will hurt as well I would imagine (they all have fleet now as well.) Makes the runepriest even more of a must have (with chooser of slain of course.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190148-new-genestealers/#findComment-2254601 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nurglespuss Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 can broodlord now fleet too? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190148-new-genestealers/#findComment-2254603 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodgers37 Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 Yeah... I think he is almost as good as he was before, a lot of people don't think so, obviously they have taken his biggest asset, Power weapons away, but he has got some advatages.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190148-new-genestealers/#findComment-2254610 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spacefrisian Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 What about the re-rolling they had in the previous dex. I found that always annoying is it still their. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190148-new-genestealers/#findComment-2254664 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rodgers37 Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 i think there is some form of re-rolling, not exactually sure..... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190148-new-genestealers/#findComment-2254680 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tybrus Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 One thing to note is they now come in squads of 20 yes 20. At 14 points each, and they get to reroll an 1's they roll when attacking. They might not be as good, but also note that if your already in Hand to hand then cover won']t help you. So if those shields of guants take the 1st turn of hits the stealers can follow right in at I 6/7 and eat you up. Edit: Also Cover is only from the direction of the attack if the stealers ues the up to 18" of move to run arond and charge you from behind your dead again... So discount them if you want to, I think they are worse now then before... Ohhh and EVERY SINGLE ONE of the six squads you can take of them can have its own broodlord now yeah they suck you guys are right no one will field something so lame.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190148-new-genestealers/#findComment-2255287 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirax Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 So do you guys think, from the info we have here, plonk about three units of Grey Hunters as a gunline in cover, with Bloodclaws in a LR ready to mobilise to the thickest fighting? I'd just like to know as I'm thinking of getting another box of the Pack. Can't have enough GH's! Oh and Tybrus, why the sarcasm? It's the lowest form of wit.... Then again, I am British... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190148-new-genestealers/#findComment-2255318 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tybrus Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 I'm just a yank ::shrug:: But I like Doctor Who, That is until you lot went and ran the good Doctor off BAH... As for your question... You will need a rune Priest to set up a 18" zone that is safe then set up your GH's in cover there. Because the Stealers can start 18" from you and they have a strike range of up to 18" it means that if they go first there is a 1 in 6 chance they will be on you before you can fire a shot. Then you will get to Counter Attack and if your lucky take a good number out. Now that said I think that we wolves (Still feels strange to say that again as I havn't been a Wolf since RT Days) are going to be ok when it comes to ninja stealers. The real treat is going to be a force that moves up with a screening force. The screening force will offer then cover saves and can engage the squads to soak up the "Cover" effect. Once you are engaged cover does you no more good, so the stealers can follow in and finish the job. Now to make matters worse if you set up your wolves close enough to support each other that the bugs can assault more then one squad at a time (And remember the size of these mobs are 30 for the screen and 20 for the stealers) can spread out with 2" between each model and hit 2, 3 or even 4 units in one assult. Stealers have enough attacks on a charge (I want to say 4 per mob) that is 80 attacks on the inc with rends and rerolling any 1's. That does not count any of the screening mobs that are still alive after the 1st turn. So a counter charge unit of BC's in a LR might help but a better bet would be a LRR held in reserve and go hose whatever bugs are left with flames after they eat your troops. I myself like to keep a squad of Landspeeders with Flamers and HB's near my gunlines as a count breach unit. I then keep my troops apart enough that only one unit can be assaulted at a time in a semi circle with a reserve unit or two in the middle of the horse shoe. This allows you to fill any holes and to poor filer into a mob army and make it pay for each inch they move. If you rush the speeders into any breach and clense it with flames you can retask a reserve unit into the whole and rehold the line. This is really only good vs. hoard armies but I have never had it fail, if you keep your artty in the rear near your reserve you have it portected from flanking as well... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190148-new-genestealers/#findComment-2255565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERO Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 If they try to Infiltrate on you.. just Murderous Hurricane them. And LAWL as they try to get into combat. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/190148-new-genestealers/#findComment-2255580 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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