Best Capain loadout

[Beluga]

Hey fellow B&C members

 

My first post on this forum (my 386 on my total)

 

I have a dillema, I can't decide what loadout to give my Captain, my favourite one that has been suggested to me was Lightning Claw, Combi-Melta and Hellfire rounds.

 

But that's where my dillema comes in, I really don't know if that version is the best, my opponents I usually play against are Necs, Nid's, SW, IG, Demons, Tau, and maybe Chaos once in a while.

[Koremu]

Read this Assault Captain thread.

 

The short answer is that unless you absolutely, desperately need another Power Fist, you should probably arm up with Relic Blade and Storm Shield. Or at least a Relic Blade if you are terribly short of points. What's not to like about an I5 S6 Power Weapon?

[Brother Captain Josef]

^ Seconded.

 

People can argue that RB + SS captain is not 'original' enough for them but you can't argue with the effectivness hence why so many people field them. A combi weapon instead of SS would work well also as you already have a 4++ save though I might be inclined to go with combi flamer but that's just me.

[Beluga]

The only reason I don't take a Combi-Flamer is that I can't just model one right (believe me, I've tried 3 times)

 

And the Relic Blade, Storm Shield is a little too unoriginal, I'm the kinda guy who never takes the norm.

 

I'm thinking Thunder Hammer, Relic Blade, so I can choose S6 I5 or Thunder Hammer ownage power. or course this one would have Artificer Armour, and Aux Nade Launcher, maybe digiweapons.

[Koremu]

"Unoriginal" is a relative term. Like any normal Power Weapon, a Relic Blade can be any type - my Captain carries a Relic Axe. I know how to make an excellent glaive as well.

 

RB/SS is the cookie cutter default because it's the best, at least as far as Hand to Hand goes.

 

There's a pretty good tutorial on how to make Combi-Flamers in the Librarium IIRC.

 

I certainly wouldn't go taking two different expensive H2H weapons. The effectiveness for the investment just isn't there.

[Beluga]

A Relic Glaive cool, how do you make one?

 

yeah I guess my build up will be this now:

 

Relic Glaive/Axe

 

Combi-Flamer

 

Artificer Armour

 

Digital Weapons

 

Hellfire Rounds: 175 Ownage enough for me, I might stick on the Aux Grenade Launcher (I know the best way to convert one using the Scout Biker Nade Launcher.

[Koremu]

The Glaive I had made is actually my Librarian's Force Weapon. Wait until the Golden Bolter event rolls around and you'll see how it looks.

[Beluga]

Cool, well, I'll try to paint him up tomorrow, see how my Relic Axe looks when fully painted and not just a plastic shaving covered piece of Cr@p.

 

I just hope the Captain didn't hear that.

 

Oh and I've named the Captain: Brother-Captain Jack West Jr. (Mathew Riley fans will of course now him)

[Giga]

Captain with RB, SS, and artificer armor is the best close combat loadout.

 

That being said, if you want to save some points, you can always just give him lightning claws instead of a RB. That way you can't take the storm shield, and you get a 145 pts captain that is still quite an anti-infantry beast in close combat with a hefty 5 attacks on charge.

[minigun762]

Or drop the SS and take a StormBolter or Combi instead. You already have a 4++ save, which is better then most.

[DarkGuard]

A Relic Glaive cool, how do you make one?

 

yeah I guess my build up will be this now:

 

Relic Glaive/Axe

 

Combi-Flamer

 

Artificer Armour

 

Digital Weapons

 

Hellfire Rounds: 175 Ownage enough for me, I might stick on the Aux Grenade Launcher (I know the best way to convert one using the Scout Biker Nade Launcher.

 

Sounds good to me, less survivability then one which has a SS, and less mobility then one with a Jump Pack. Like Koremu has said, the reason why the RB/SS is so popular is that it is the best, but in my experience you don't always need the Storm Shield.

 

You have some good firepower on this model, although honestly I don't like combi-weapons, don't see it as a worthwhile investment to pay more points for a single shot weapon then you would normally pay for the actual thing (except for Sternguard). Of course a flamer can't miss. Which unit would you be using this Captain with, that might also help with critique and suggestions. If you're running him with an Assault Squad then you don't have the mobility and a Rapid Fire weapon isn't wise. If it's a shooty Command Squad then it fits OK, giving the squad some close combat punch if they get assaulted.

[Koremu]

In my experience you very rarely get a situation where you think "If only I hadn't used the combi-weapon earlier". Fire it ASAP and live with the consequences.

 

However, if you are taking a Combi-weapon you'll have inherently less use for the Hellfire rounds.

[minigun762]

yeah I guess my build up will be this now:

 

Combi-Flamer

 

Why a C-Flamer? You're BS5, it seems like a waste to fire a 1 shot auto-hit weapon. C-Melta is the same price and gives you something to hurt a tank or MC with or insta-pop a Nob or Warrior.

[Beluga]

Well what squad is the Captain going with: my Tac Squad with Melta and Power Fist

 

Why do I want to take the Combi-Flamer: I'm not so lucky on those rolls with the Melta and I could kill more men than a Melta

 

Why am I taking Hellfire Rounds: well the ability to would everything on a 2+ is good for when you hop out of a Rhino and can't charge.

 

And I'm thinking of buying a Command Squad for him next.

[DarkGuard]

Well what squad is the Captain going with: my Tac Squad with Melta and Power Fist

 

Why do I want to take the Combi-Flamer: I'm not so lucky on those rolls with the Melta and I could kill more men than a Melta

 

Why am I taking Hellfire Rounds: well the ability to would everything on a 2+ is good for when you hop out of a Rhino and can't charge.

 

And I'm thinking of buying a Command Squad for him next.

 

Might be worth it going for the melta if that Tact squad has a melta. You hit on a 2+ and those two melta shots will hurt a tank. But then the combi-flamer will hit and gives you some diversity.

 

About hellfire rounds, IMO these are best on bike Captains, as they are Relentless. You're effectively paying 10 pts for 2 shots that wound on 2+ but only with AP5, not a good investment IMO. A plasma pistol would be cheaper then what you have and maybe more effective in the long run, able to take out tanks and infantry and fire all the time.

[mowglie]

I'm going to chime in with the mainstream here.

 

Relic Blade + Storm Shield or Relic Blade + any Combi-weapon (they're all pretty good) is best. I prefer the combi-weapon because the captain already has a 4++.

 

Lightning Claws is a close second, marginally better against hordes (but your captain isn't for fighting hordes straight-on imo), and looks pretty cool to boot.

 

Artificer Armour, Digi-weapons, Hellfire rounds are optional. Build the rest of your army first and see how many points you have left over.

[The Black Watch]

And the Relic Blade, Storm Shield is a little too unoriginal, I'm the kinda guy who never takes the norm.

 

I'm thinking Thunder Hammer, Relic Blade, so I can choose S6 I5 or Thunder Hammer ownage power. or course this one would have Artificer Armour, and Aux Nade Launcher, maybe digiweapons.

Me too!! I like that idea and you could do a sweet weapon conversion with a thunder hammer at one end and blade at the other.

 

Personally, I gave my captain a pair of lightning claws and a jump pack. I did a conversion of the Shrike model (which for some reason is the only way to get a captain with 2 lightning claws and a jump pack :D?) which looks pretty good. He goes everywhere with a full assault squad so they absorb wounds from shooting attacks. In CC he's a monster with 5 attacks on the charge and you can re-roll failed wounds. He has taken out a squad of plague marines in two round of assault. Unfortunately the assault squad that accompanies him are usually spectacularly useless often failing to wound anything through shooting or cc. Hence the unit is now affectionately called 'Captain Tiberius and his 13 wounds'.

 

Relic blades are excellent but if you're looking for something different try this.

[Brother Captain Josef]

Bear in mind though dude that a rhino has transport capacity of 10 so your captain wont be pilling out of one with a full tac squad... I know how you feel, I was gutted too ;)

[Giga]

Why would you want to transport a captain in a rhino (or a razorback, for that matter)?

 

You need some kind of transport that enables the captain to charge quickly (because he's a close combat HQ, after all), so he needs a jumppack or a land raider or a bike.

 

EDIT: A captain being transported in a rhino/razorback will just draw lots of firepower until his transport is immobilized/destroyed, and then he'll have to footslog, at which point the enemy will be running circles around him or assaulting him with assault specialists.

[Koremu]

It depends how you intend to use the Captain and his unit Giga. I use a Razorback with Captain and Command Squad quite frequently. It's not that difficult to keep the Razorback sufficiently hidden to gain cover (or even cover and angle shot) for long enough to get the Captain into the thick of things.

 

It depends how many other AV10 and 11 targets your opponent has to deal with. And if you are (as I do) in any case using your HQ as a counter assault unit rather than a primary killer unit, the Razorback is fine - you can still assault as long as you disembark before the RB moves.

[Giga]

The way I see it, a captain with relic blade and storm shield costs 145 pts. His command squad is likely gonna cost around 160-180 pts, depending how you kit them out. With a barebones razorback, this entire unit costs 350-400 points.

 

It's exactly the sort of unit that one would want destroyed before it gets anywhere near assault, or at the very least forced to footslog. I feel that a razorback is simply not a good transport there, especially when you're fighting armies when you have to take the initiative and charge them (such as when you're fighting tau, or guard, or necrons etc.). In these situations, it's very likely these armies are going to be able to at the very least immobilize your razorback, making ~400 points in your army footslog and exposing them to further shooting. Cover saves only help so much, after all.

 

I guess the entire counterattack idea with your captain & his command squad is okay if you're fighting opponents that you know will come to you (such as khorne CSM, nids, orks, etc.), but it just doesn't seem like a good allcomers choice for me.

[Koremu]

You only really need to get two turns of transport out of the RB in most circumstances. Turn one it's got a 3+ cover save because it's behind a Vindicator and flanked by a Rhino (both of which use smoke). Turn two it uses its own smoke as it overtakes the Vindicator, giving the Vindicator flank cover as it does so.

 

Meanwhile a pair of Typhoon Land Speeders hover about the place firing Krak missiles and gaining a 4+ cover save for being partially obscured by the Rhino, Razorback and Vindicator.

 

Meanwhile, behind that lot camped on another Objective is a Predator, another Rhino and a Whirlwind. :)

 

Add an LSS if you want a quick lockdown unit, more speeders or bikes to taste...

 

The idea is to force the enemies target selection for him. Lots of Rhinos, lots of Firepower

[Giga]

What you're saying makes perfect sense if viewed logically and with mathhammer in mind. It's a similar argument for why Land Raider Redeemer is a good thing. On paper, its 14 14 14 armor should keep it safe until it gets in range to use its flamers. Likewise, on paper, all that smoke and support should keep your captain razorback safe for two whole turns (meaning 2 or possibly 3 opponent player turns).

 

However, in reality, I've seen redeemers get immobilized thanks to lucky shots and failed cover saves too many times to ignore. On paper, it's a slim chance this will happen - in actual battle, it happens plenty, and when it does, it's a disaster that can easily cause the player to lose the entire battle.

 

Same with that razorback. It can work, but with all those str 7, 8, 9, and 10 weapons around, a razorback is rather vulnerable, made all the more vulnerable because it carries ~350 points of killy inside. When it does fail, and I seen such tactics fail a lot, it's a massive disaster that will see ~400 points doing nothing except footslogging and getting shot up.

[Koremu]

Flukes aside (and NO plan is safe from flukes), anyone who can pop the Razorback is still getting pounded by a Vindicator, Typhoon Speeders, a Predator and a Whirlwind.

 

Once I've focus fired down their AT (which will happen, because their AT was focusing on one of my non-AT units), they'll have to try close assault to finish they job. At which point I say "no" with my Command Squad.

 

If they try and back off, they get corralled by the Bikers or Assault Squad (depending on army config).

 

And if they do manage to pop the RB, because there are two more Rhino-chassis vehicle about the place, there isn't that much that can draw LOS to the command squad.

 

You are looking at the pure math perspective of "what is the most threat over the whole course of the game?".

 

My entire strategy here is to force you to think about "what is the most immediate threat?". You have much more immediate threats than the Command unit. (The funny thing is that even the Command Squad are really a diversion from the Tacticals in Objective games.

 

And anyway, 6"+D6" isn't that much shorter than a transport.

[Giga]

Target saturation is all well and nice but... A razorback is still a 11 11 10 vehicle. An opponent won't need his entire anti-tank department to tackle it, far from it. They don't even need to destroy it, an immobilized result is enough.

 

The other stuff you mentioned isn't particularly scary either. In this age of cover saves, a vindicator isn't something to spend a lot of time thinking about (especially since it's so easy to shut down), and typhoons can be killed like all speeders with everyday anti-tank shooting (missile launchers, for one).

 

Again, I believe having an expensive captain+command squad in a razorback is a tactical mistake against smart opponents. However, if it works for you, then you should absolutely keep it up. Some things work for some players, even when they rarely if ever work for other players. In those cases, people should use what works for them.