The_Crippster Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Hey guys I've been thinking, whats the best objective holder for us? I want you to take in cost, durability, and how they may participate in the battle while holding their objective, and anything else you feel is a factor. I'm interested in this because I've decided to start playing Chaos Daemons, and figure that some of the models could go into a fun daemonboming list (I'd thus want some shoot-y scoring units for minimal cost). Is it worth it to devote a 10 man squad of CSM or two for the purposes of holding an objective? the of course have a heavy weapon choice taken. Or is it better to simply take 7 or so plague marines with plasma guns and have them kick back and enjoy getting shot a ton? Are squads of under 10 CSM worth taking to hold objectives? I've relied on PMs, Noise Marines, Vanilla CSMs and Thousand sons over the years, but never thought of what was most effective at the job for the price tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashe Darke Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 With my Raider list I tended to stick a 7 man PM squad in Rhino on an objective placed out of LoS. I do DG which is why it's PMs and not CSM. Them staying out of the fight doesn't seem to be a hindrance and tends to be what wins the game. They tend not to shoot unless anything comes near in which case it gets melta'd. These are not taken exclusively for that purpose but they're the best unit to do it as I want the flamers in the Raiders and keeping a Raider back to hold is crazy. In my newer list I have a choice between two melta units in Rhinos or a flamer unit in a Rhino so whoever is least useful sits on it. Why the Rhino? Well they have it anyway and it's useful for last minute contesting and preventing enemy units from getting with 3 inches of my objective. It also saves them from direct shots and buys more time for them to be considered holding the objective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelias Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 think it's pretty safe to say it's a toss up between the 2x plasma CSM and 2x plasma plague marines, i'm sure someone will pop in and math's hammer it for you :huh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 think it's pretty safe to say it's a toss up between the 2x plasma CSM and 2x plasma plague marines, i'm sure someone will pop in and math's hammer it for you ;) If you're hiding in cover or your Rhino I'd say they're equivalent. Plague Marines will suffer more to anti-tank/MC weapons while CSMs will suffer more to small arms. CSMs MIGHT have a slight advantage here because anti-tank weapons tend to have longer range then small arms but thats not even entirely true. Fearless vs IoCG+LD10 is a wash in my book. CSMs have more options in that they can take a Heavy weapon if you really wanted a dedicated camper. Thousand Sons are really only viable if the objective is out of cover since you can bring your own 4+ save. One thing to consider is Lesser Daemons. 10 of them going to ground is the equivalent of a 3+/5++ save for 130 points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpse. Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 I think I tried the majority of the options out there. I think its more of a strategy because you face so many things in all the games you play. I say its the rhino wall, followed by a good support of combined force to keep the objective. If you're talking sit a unit on an objective and fight elsewhere, then it should be a unit with bolters or better. Otherwise its a major waste of points. Or if you intend on arresting an objective from the enemy, depends what they're weak to. I think zerkers are great objective stealers. While regular chaos marines covered by a rhino wall or granted 4+ cover by a single rhino and/or cover makes a good station. We all are aware that a 4+ cover save unit beats a PM unit in the same situation because of the more wounds per point when handling mass of wounds with cover saves attached. (FNP/T5 wont matter, or you pay nearly 50% more points over a CSM for a plague marine for those benefits) But then again, fearlessness and other things factor in. I say the humble CSM because its the middle point of most the cult units that do well. Just because of rhinos being cover, and throwing enough marines at (almost) anything will get the job done or has a good chance of doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minigun762 Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 One unit that wasn't mentioned was 5-6 Noise Marines + Blastmaster. 140-160 points which is cheaper then the other options and you have a 48" blast weapon to reach out and contribute to the battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronWinds Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 think it's pretty safe to say it's a toss up between the 2x plasma CSM and 2x plasma plague marines, i'm sure someone will pop in and math's hammer it for you I might be biased, but I think the mathhammering in the Durability of plague marines topic alread answered it. If most of the enemy fire is small arms fire(bolters/lasguns) PMs are better. If you are taking a fair amount of anti-tank fire(at least 1/10 of the enemy weapons firing agaisnt you), or your charged by cc units with PWs or MC the PMs actually loose out because they have less wounds to absorb the heavy blows that ignore saves and have less attacks to fight back with. Against marines/chaos/eldar/guard you are likely going to take a lot of low ap high str weapons fire(and PFs w/ the marines/chaos) and your better off forgetting saves and going for more wounds(CSMs). If your facing tau/necrons/orks you will take less low ap shots(tau have them, but only on crisis suits and tanks) and less PW attacks so the PMs should fair better because they have so many saves and higher T. Agaisnt nids... guants you are better of with PMs, but if bigger bugs get involved the CSMs having more wounds comes in handy. I miss the 5man squad with lascannon... while they could become mini/max problems they were great for this. One unit that wasn't mentioned was 5-6 Noise Marines + Blastmaster. 140-160 points which is cheaper then the other options and you have a 48" blast weapon to reach out and contribute to the battle. Lots of firepower, but not durable enough IMO. A single infiltrating/outflanking or DSing unit could take them out. I perosnally like the CSMs. Have enough wounds to withstand bigger guns and at longer ranges that is normally what is firing at you. And if enemies come in neaby to contest they have enough attacks/firepower to get rid of it :confused: . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Lord Dred Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 Ive been taking a 10 man CSM squad with plasma and a lascannon and it's been doing great. Against armies you need to rush against, its no big deal that the lascannon isnt firing every turn. Against armies that we are more conservative against, it sits back and helps destroy tanks. Ive even had a single plasma shot destroy a serpent from 24" away. Plus the lascannon model looks awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corpse. Posted January 21, 2010 Share Posted January 21, 2010 One unit that wasn't mentioned was 5-6 Noise Marines + Blastmaster. 140-160 points which is cheaper then the other options and you have a 48" blast weapon to reach out and contribute to the battle. Lots of firepower, but not durable enough IMO. A single infiltrating/outflanking or DSing unit could take them out. I perosnally like the CSMs. Have enough wounds to withstand bigger guns and at longer ranges that is normally what is firing at you. And if enemies come in neaby to contest they have enough attacks/firepower to get rid of it :huh: . Durability to stay outside 24" range is enough to pay 2x the points when you nullify 50% or more of the opponents firepower's capability of hurting the objective taker, which can be way outside range of the enemy 24" guns. Average army has roughly 38 bolters at 2k or an equiv, or is melee oriented. It's often taken for granted by IG players and similar unit using armies. Combat squad a 40" range weapon for loyalists for example, (and cheaper). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedDeath Posted January 22, 2010 Share Posted January 22, 2010 I use 6 PMs with 2 plasma guns in a Rhino partially on the basis that if I end up playing annihilation those 2 plasma guns are great backup to a unit that's about to assault. They stay in the Rhino until they get turfed out, in which case they hog cover, or rapid fire if it was something CC-orientated. The Rhino isn't a problem as if it gets blown to kingdom come I have FNP for any failed armour saves. Thinking about it though, that's 221pts, and for 215pts I could have 10 CSM with 2 plasma guns in a rhino, so maybe there's an argument for that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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