Victory against the Tyranid Horde

[HERO]

Hi there Brother Wolves. I'd like to share with you my recent victories over the Tyranid war host. The first list, my friend against me had something like:

 

Hive Tyrant + 2 Guard

3 Zoans in a Drop Pod

Tyranid Prime

A ton of Warriors

Gaunts to shield them

2 Lictors in a Brood

 

The second list, he used something like:

2x 2x Dakkafex, so 4 Fexes

Tyrant with a Guard

Some Warriors again

Small Gaunts to shield

2 groups of 2x Zoans (4 total) slogging

2x Venomthropes.

Hive Guard

 

Things to expect in the future:

Trevigon

Trygon

Swarmlord

Deathleaper

Tyrannofex

Gargs/Harpies/Winged Tyrant

 

My list stayed the same for both attempts:

 

2007

 

HQ:

Ragnar Blackmane = 240

Rune Priest (Chooser, WTT) = 115

 

TROOP:

9x Grey Hunters w/ WG (Rhino, PF, cbM, Meltagun, WS, MotW) = 243

9x Grey Hunters w/ WG (Rhino, PF, cbM, Meltagun, WS, MotW) = 243

9x Grey Hunters w/ WG (Rhino, PF, cbM, Meltagun, WS, MotW) = 243

10x Grey Hunters w/ Arjac (2x Meltagun, WS, MotW) = 368

 

HEAVY:

LRC (EA, MM) = 275

6x Long Fangs (5x ML) = 140

6x Long Fangs (5x ML) = 140

 

Things to keep in mind when playing vs the new Nids:

 

- Warriors can be shot to bits by your Long Fangs. Even if they have 4+ cover, do not fear to throw 10 missile shots into them per turn. This applies to heavy creatures as well. MCs normally can't save vs missiles in the new book.. so the best rule for them is to shoot them to pieces. Keep in mind that meltaguns are great vs Warriors as well. The instant kill mechanic is something you need to exploit and take advantage of.. especially now that Nids have no EW.

 

- Another tid bit of Warriors.. if they have a Tyranid Prime, know exactly what he is and what he does. He makes Warriors WS6 and BS4 as long as he's in the unit of them. That means they almost always hit you on 3s. Not to mention he's no pushover himself. S5 T5, 3W and 3+ is very nice if you ask me. In every single Warrior list I've seen, a Venom Cannon is the best buy for that unit. The S6 blast always causes problems against MEQ.

 

- Gaunts are still Gaunts. They might get better with Adrenal Glands and Toxin Sacs and all their Genestealers and CC Warriors are still beasts in combat.. but know that they do NOT have frag grenades. I got charged by literally 20 juiced up gaunts when I'm in cover, my 10man GH squad popped their counter-charge and banner and utterly destroyed them before they can do anything.

 

- Beware of Lashwhips. You strike last, always. A 50 point Warrior with Lashwhip Boneswords and Toxin will kill anything MEQ in combat like its their job. It also invalidates the entire point of charging in cover without frags.. except they have power weapons on everything that re-rolls wounds. For these guys, because they're so expensive, shoot them to HELL. Not to mention a 4+ save is not that impressive.

 

- Murderous Hurricane and Jaws of the World Wolf are your best friends on the Rune Priest. Hurricane wrecks assaulty units and JotWW just shuts down MC's. Trevigons, Tyrannofex, Carnfiex, kindly ask your opponent to pass a 3+ or be removed. It's really sad to them, but if its in the game, play it. You need the extra tid bits to get ahead of the game.

 

- Hive Guard are good. The fact they shoot through terrain is really rough. 2 shots each at BS4 S8 is no joke. They will pop your Rhinos and instant kill basic MEQ. Beware of these guys.

 

- Dakkafexes ruin your day. A brood of 3 will put out 36 shots at BS3 re-rolls to hit and 2+ to wound on any of your MEQ units. If they manage to pop your tank and unload on you, you got problems. Kill these with missiles and JotWW as soon as you can. These are the only combination of Fexes I see as really viable. This and dropping Scream-Killers (Plasma cannon blast at BS3, 12" range).

 

- Trevigons will eventually blow themselves up.. or you'll manage to Jaws them to death. If they spawn bugs, its not big deal. You will beat them in combat everytime.. unless you roll really poorly with your standard troops. Jaws anything with I1 because they'll be important to your enemy, garunteed.

 

- Zoans wreck you. Either by foot, or pods, they wreck you. At 180 points, your opponent can take 3 of them and shoot you to death in a number of ways you can't imagine. 24" S5 AP3 blast or S10 AP1 Lance at 18". Good thing you have a Rune Priest which will shut down 50% of his powers, and he'll miss 33% of the time. That's good insurance.. but if it gets off.. expect whatever he shot at to die. This is a forewarning. Just make sure you have your Rune Priest in range to nullify his shots. If it comes down to hidding in cover and not doing any psychic attacks for the chance to nullify their abilities, take it.

 

- Furthermore, I want to talk about Venomthropes. As you can see.. my list is fairly assaulty if I want it to be. The fact that I assaulted him and those things were still alive changed the game entirely. I wolf howled, charged with Ragnar's group and 2x Grey Hunters and things didn't go as planned.. at all. Venomthropes give units 6" of them defensive grenades, dangerous terrain and a 5+ cover save. If you want any chance to assault, you must get rid of these things. Not to mention once they get in combat with you.. they can cause some serious problems by lashwhipping everything around them, allowing their slower units to swing before you, taking toughness tests or dying.. just a lot of bad stuff. A lot of people say these guys suck.. but I STRONGLY disagree. If I was Nids playing against Wolves, I would trade anything for 2 of these.

 

- One last thing: Arjac Rockfist personally man-handles every MC in their book save maybe the Swarmlord. On the charge you have 5 attacks that re-rolls to hit on 3+ and are resolved at S10. Not to mention you can throw it before you charge, further adding to the damage. In short, he solo'd the Tyrant and 2 Fexes. In a squad, he'll definitely murder the Swarmlord because he can't be picked out. Ouch.

[Wolf Lord Hallbjorn]

Sounds good. I play against a nid player all the time and i've had a good share of wins and losses. The biggest change in my opinion is the loss of EW for everything. Now you don't have to chew through each individual wound on all those broods of warriors no matter what you shoot at them.

[Jonny Wolf]

Outstanding roll up brother. Really well done. Thanks.

[commander alexander]

Thanks for the advice brother. Those Trygons/Mawlocs are nasty, have any of you read the article GW put up on them ;) ? The Trygon gets a 12" assault 6 Str 5 or 6 AP5 shooting attack, which when upgraded to a prime doubles it to assault 12 and extends the range to 18". The Mawloc gets a blast template when he deepstrikes underneath your units, and can pretty much just slip back underground and do it again if hes not engaged. Plus there your nasty cc nids. :P

[Streamdragon]

Thanks for the advice brother. Those Trygons/Mawlocs are nasty, have any of you read the article GW put up on them :lol: ? The Trygon gets a 12" assault 6 Str 5 or 6 AP5 shooting attack, which when upgraded to a prime doubles it to assault 12 and extends the range to 18". The Mawloc gets a blast template when he deepstrikes underneath your units, and can pretty much just slip back underground and do it again if hes not engaged. Plus there your nasty cc nids. :blush:

 

Actually, if you check the Codex, upgrading to the Prime does not replace the Bio-electric pulse with the Containment Spines, it adds it. So a Trygon Prime has two different weapons, one at assault 6 and one at assault 12. Different ranges, but it's still two weapons. (Both of which the Trygon can fire, since it's a Monstrous Creature).

 

As a Tyranid player and a Space Wolf player (among other armies) I think Space Wolves definitely made out better with their codex than the crap that the Tyranids got. Not a big fan of that one, I'm not.

[HERO]

Both of those tasty creatures got nothing on Arjac and his Co. In fact, a charge of Grey Hunters with Meltaguns blazing, a Wolf Standard and a PF should be able to overcome even the vilest alien monstrocity.

 

The only thing to really watch out for is the dreaded Lashwhip/BS Warriors. There is nothing that you have against them in close combat so you need guns. Meltaguns and CbM really puts them to shame. I managed to gundown 8 with dedicated fire from 2 squads of GH.

 

I'd also like to mention that you can easily replace those Long Fangs with 2 Vindicators sandwiched between your Rhinos so he can only shoot at AV13. Believe me.. if they don't have anything above S6.. he's in trouble. The Vindicators may scatter... but you'll almost always get something. The thing to notice here is that though you'll hit a lot more models, you'll do less damage to something like Warriors, Fexes or Trygons.

[Ven.Dread Greatclaw]

Both of those tasty creatures got nothing on Arjac and his Co. In fact, a charge of Grey Hunters with Meltaguns blazing, a Wolf Standard and a PF should be able to overcome even the vilest alien monstrocity.

 

The only thing to really watch out for is the dreaded Lashwhip/BS Warriors. There is nothing that you have against them in close combat so you need guns. Meltaguns and CbM really puts them to shame. I managed to gundown 8 with dedicated fire from 2 squads of GH.

 

I'd also like to mention that you can easily replace those Long Fangs with 2 Vindicators sandwiched between your Rhinos so he can only shoot at AV13. Believe me.. if they don't have anything above S6.. he's in trouble. The Vindicators may scatter... but you'll almost always get something. The thing to notice here is that though you'll hit a lot more models, you'll do less damage to something like Warriors, Fexes or Trygons.

 

And as a bonus, remember that using Incendiary missiles will frustrate any Tyranid player.

S4 AP5 is enough to tear up their armour of their weakling hordes and the incendiary blast will negate their cover save! A realy vicios weapon against weak armour that relies on cover saves to survive.

[nurglespuss]

Good advice :lol: and a nice article.

 

All I will say (sorry) is that, that is a really boring, cookie cutter list...

 

Why so much melta when facing tyanids? a few flamers would be awesome! and though i love long fangs with missile launchers, mixing it up a bit would be great (this kind of list appeared alot in the previous codex - replace ragnar with wolflord/priest)...

[Lord Ragnarok]

Thanks HERO! Very good intel.

[Brother Mord]

Actually, if you check the Codex, upgrading to the Prime does not replace the Bio-electric pulse with the Containment Spines, it adds it. So a Trygon Prime has two different weapons, one at assault 6 and one at assault 12. Different ranges, but it's still two weapons. (Both of which the Trygon can fire, since it's a Monstrous Creature).

 

Actually it does replace it's bio-electric pulse with containment spines, it doesn't get both weapons. The containment spines is an upgraded bio-electric pulse.

 

Pg. 50 of the Tyranid Codex under containment spines

"A Tyrgon Prime uses the following profile when firing it's bioelectric pulse:" then it gives the stats for the upgraded blast.

[hmk17]

Assuming this is an "all-comers" list, it makes sense to see all the melta guns (Don't leave Fenris with out them.) Sure its vanilla, but you roll against what you know is typically out there.

 

The trick with lash whips I've been discovering is to entrap the player in overconfidence. (Players seem to forget that Nids no longer have Frag grenades as an option.) If you can grab cover before an assault, everyone swings together and the bugs will go down. Lone Wolves with SS have also been stars.

 

Personally though, a WG with cyclone launcher paired up in one of the LF units would work a little better.

 

One last thing: Arjac Rockfist personally man-handles every MC in their book save maybe the Swarmlord. On the charge you have 5 attacks that re-rolls to hit on 3+ and are resolved at S10. Not to mention you can throw it before you charge, further adding to the damage. In short, he solo'd the Tyrant and 2 Fexes. In a squad, he'll definitely murder the Swarmlord because he can't be picked out. Ouch.

 

If he's running with 10 guys, he has a good chance to make it through. The 4+ invuln save in CC is annoying as hell and any Tyrant Guard have to bite it fast and first.

 

If the Nid player goes for Gouda over Swiss, Lash whips on 3 guards for 4 insta-death attacks followed by 9 rending attacks. Then you have to break the TG shield wall when you swing last... but then again that's 530 pts for an HQ & retinue.

 

 

Wolves are by far the best geared army to take down this edition of Nids, so as long as we share the tricks, we can hold them back.

 

 

Has anyone tried using LF's with Plasma Cannons? The thought is very tempting, was wondering if anyone had tried on Nids already?

[Lord Ragnarok]

Good advice :whistling: and a nice article.

 

All I will say (sorry) is that, that is a really boring, cookie cutter list...

 

Why so much melta when facing tyanids? a few flamers would be awesome! and though i love long fangs with missile launchers, mixing it up a bit would be great (this kind of list appeared alot in the previous codex - replace ragnar with wolflord/priest)...

 

The melta could be in there for all comers list. Melta seems to be the norm. Also, based on the loss of Eternal warrior, meltas would be more helpful than flamers. Especially with our Ultra grit.

 

@HERO, who was in the Land Raider?

[Lysimachus]

Just a very small thought and perhaps one that's been mentioned before, but if you might be facing the 'nid with the ability to make one of your models WS/BS1 (forget which beastie it is now), wouldn't that make the WolfToothNecklace a very sensible upgrade for those characters (and dreads if I remember right?) able to take it, as it says that you hit on a 3+ regardless of comparative WS?

 

Probably a really obvious point, but hadn't seen anyone mention it so...

 

cheers

 

Lysimachus

[commander alexander]

Assuming this is an "all-comers" list, it makes sense to see all the melta guns (Don't leave Fenris with out them.) Sure its vanilla, but you roll against what you know is typically out there.

 

The trick with lash whips I've been discovering is to entrap the player in overconfidence. (Players seem to forget that Nids no longer have Frag grenades as an option.) If you can grab cover before an assault, everyone swings together and the bugs will go down. Lone Wolves with SS have also been stars.

 

Personally though, a WG with cyclone launcher paired up in one of the LF units would work a little better.

 

One last thing: Arjac Rockfist personally man-handles every MC in their book save maybe the Swarmlord. On the charge you have 5 attacks that re-rolls to hit on 3+ and are resolved at S10. Not to mention you can throw it before you charge, further adding to the damage. In short, he solo'd the Tyrant and 2 Fexes. In a squad, he'll definitely murder the Swarmlord because he can't be picked out. Ouch.

 

If he's running with 10 guys, he has a good chance to make it through. The 4+ invuln save in CC is annoying as hell and any Tyrant Guard have to bite it fast and first.

 

If the Nid player goes for Gouda over Swiss, Lash whips on 3 guards for 4 insta-death attacks followed by 9 rending attacks. Then you have to break the TG shield wall when you swing last... but then again that's 530 pts for an HQ & retinue.

 

 

Wolves are by far the best geared army to take down this edition of Nids, so as long as we share the tricks, we can hold them back.

 

 

 

 

Has anyone tried using LF's with Plasma Cannons? The thought is very tempting, was wondering if anyone had tried on Nids already?

 

 

Plasma is the fear of all nids! I always take plasma cannons against nids (and any other army when possible). They will negate anyones armor, and against anything in a horde or squad like warriors, it whittles them right down, real fast :whistling:, especially with 5, and then the option of a plasma gun . I have always had good luck with plasma against nids.

 

As far as the melta madness, I prefer just taking 1flamer and 1melta gun in a pack for an all comers list, save the points for other upgrades or units.

 

Im also very tempted to make a "beast-Slaying" unit :) ....

[Streamdragon]

Actually, if you check the Codex, upgrading to the Prime does not replace the Bio-electric pulse with the Containment Spines, it adds it. So a Trygon Prime has two different weapons, one at assault 6 and one at assault 12. Different ranges, but it's still two weapons. (Both of which the Trygon can fire, since it's a Monstrous Creature).

 

Actually it does replace it's bio-electric pulse with containment spines, it doesn't get both weapons. The containment spines is an upgraded bio-electric pulse.

 

Pg. 50 of the Tyranid Codex under containment spines

"A Tyrgon Prime uses the following profile when firing it's bioelectric pulse:" then it gives the stats for the upgraded blast.

 

Huh, interesting. I'dve thought the army list entry in the back would have made it more clear they were the same.

[styx]

A good review, one thing to consider: Deathleaper. He reduces a LD value of an IC, so with a single Rune Preist you can be screwed if your LD drops. Some of your tricks involves JoWW, etc...most Wolf Players may want to consider having two RPs instead of one to avoid one of your key points to downing their units is hamstringed.

[antique_nova]

i agree with the venomthrope, people dis them, but inturn they get battered when charging in units within it's range. Guants are very good tarpits not, even a squad of ten if they ahve a tervigon near them. because FNP gaunts is nothing to be laughed at. Also beware that a hive tyrant can make a unit BS1 and WS1 until it's their turn again, so mix that with a squad of FNP gaunts or not then your in trouble. big trouble for any squad that they charge at.

thanks

antique_Nova

[HERO]

Good advice :D and a nice article.

 

All I will say (sorry) is that, that is a really boring, cookie cutter list...

 

Why so much melta when facing tyanids? a few flamers would be awesome! and though i love long fangs with missile launchers, mixing it up a bit would be great (this kind of list appeared alot in the previous codex - replace ragnar with wolflord/priest)...

 

The melta could be in there for all comers list. Melta seems to be the norm. Also, based on the loss of Eternal warrior, meltas would be more helpful than flamers. Especially with our Ultra grit.

 

@HERO, who was in the Land Raider?

 

Arjac's squad + Ragnar was inside the LRC. The Rune Priest was outside, camping out with the Long Fangs. Both were very close together to negate any sneaky 18" Zoey Lances.

 

This list is indeed my all-comers list. It's designed to fight anything at that point level and so far, has not let me down. The sheer number of attacking bodies on the field means that I'll not only have extra wounds, but an unstoppable charge if I trigger Wolf Howl with all those Grey Hunters. I've won entire games where my enemy would advance, and be charged by 3 full Grey Hunter squads and Ragnar/Arjac. After a assault phase with about 200+ dice thrown, their entire army is destroyed.

 

Meltaguns, are infinitely more effective vs bugs than Plasma Guns or Cannons. For one, they don't have Eternal Warrior anymore.. so instant killing a 40+ point Warrior saves me a lot of Marines. Not to mention wounding big bugs on 2s rather than 3s is much preferred. And last, being assault weapons, I can still charge after I fire my shot.. and believe me.. sometimes you just have to charge. And I guess the fact of not killing yourself with misfires is always good too.

[Marek Grimfang]

And because of 'Nids, and other horde armies for that matter, my GH packs that are similar to yours, Im paying the extra few point so that one of the GH's can have a Power Weapon.

 

Good write up.

[Quantus]

As a long time 'nid player that has recently found the brotherhood of the wolf (and enjoying it more and more), I can say that everything said in the original post is accurate.

Of what was said, most important is work the instant death against warriors, JotWW on fexes, hive guard, tyranofexes, and pyrovores. They're all initiative 1. Zooanthropes are I3, its worth tossing at them. Its the same as an instant death shot with their 3+ invuln.

As for the mass numbers, templates, templates, templates! 3", 5", or flamers, you cannot go wrong. 'nid saves suck on anything we swarm with, you will have AP.

[Warhorse47]

Great write up! Thanks to you all for some excellent tactical advice!