Super Havoc squad

[minigun762]

10 Havoc Marines, 4 Lascannons, Power Fist Champion, IoCG = 340 points!

 

Question: Is there any real use for a squad like this? Its more expensive then 4 Oblits and its very static. The only advantage is that you have 5 bullet sponges to go through before you hit something expensive and the Power Fist Champion keeps the squad safe from deepstrikers/assaulters.

[RedDeath]

Not really, unless you're tailoring specifically for a mech list that's likely to use deepstrike. Which is mainly other Chaos armies. If you angled them right in a nice bit of cover they have a ncie potential for side armour shots, and if they're that far out of the way they'll only get negligable enemy attention so the one fist might do some good. Overall though, if they've not got LoS to vehicles of MCs, they're just popping infantry, which is a horrible way to use four lascannons. Add in that they can only target one unit per turn and they're pretty much a massive point sink.

 

If we're going to argue hypothetical cases for Havocs though, how about 2 units of 5 Havocs with 2 Lascannons and a Rhino each. 180 pts each, so 360pts overall for just as many lascannons firing at two serperate targets from the relative safety of a Rhino. Still more expensive and less versatile than 2 Oblits, and still packs less firepower than a pair of Autocannon/Lascannon Predators, but probably a better option if you just HAVE to use Havocs.

 

And incidentally, when considering the effectiveness of Havocs firing out of Rhinos, on a crew stunned or shaken the passengers can't shoot. However, passengers can still disembark and move and shoot as if they hadn't moved at all right? So if the Rhino got shaken of stunned could the Havocs just hop out and get their shots in?

[chillin]

10 Havoc Marines, 4 Lascannons, Power Fist Champion, IoCG = 340 points!

 

Question: Is there any real use for a squad like this? Its

 

I think you know the answer to this, and it's no.

At 340 pts, havocs are a pretty bad way to get 4 LC in a chaos army (2 combipreds 260, 4 oblits 300).

How does a PF keep squad safe from DS'ers & assaulters ? If they get hit by DS'ers or an assault unit they are probably all dead, and certainly won't be firing any LC's the rest of the game. A PF with 2 attacks per turn at int.1 doesn't change that.

[Cpt. Postumus]

Hey peoples.

 

 

Not really, unless you're tailoring specifically for a mech list that's likely to use deepstrike. Which is mainly other Chaos armies. If you angled them right in a nice bit of cover they have a ncie potential for side armour shots, and if they're that far out of the way they'll only get negligable enemy attention so the one fist might do some good. Overall though, if they've not got LoS to vehicles of MCs, they're just popping infantry, which is a horrible way to use four lascannons. Add in that they can only target one unit per turn and they're pretty much a massive point sink.

 

If we're going to argue hypothetical cases for Havocs though, how about 2 units of 5 Havocs with 2 Lascannons and a Rhino each. 180 pts each, so 360pts overall for just as many lascannons firing at two serperate targets from the relative safety of a Rhino. Still more expensive and less versatile than 2 Oblits, and still packs less firepower than a pair of Autocannon/Lascannon Predators, but probably a better option if you just HAVE to use Havocs.

 

 

Agree 100%.

That said, I've been trying 1 - 2 Havoc squads lately and have had mixed results. X4 ML and six meat shields (I have some ACs on order and am planning on trying 2 ML / 2 AC) set up in difficult terrain have been a real pain for my opponent to dislodge. The utility of fire (frag / krak) makes it more flexible for 15 points less per gun. The Las cannons are too expensive and only slightly stronger, for armor that the ML can't pen I usually infiltrate a squad of Chosen with Melta guns.

 

 

 

 

 

And incidentally, when considering the effectiveness of Havocs firing out of Rhinos, on a crew stunned or shaken the passengers can't shoot. However, passengers can still disembark and move and shoot as if they hadn't moved at all right? So if the Rhino got shaken of stunned could the Havocs just hop out and get their shots in?

 

I thought that disembarking counted as moving = no heavy weapon shots?

 

Postumus

[Atheist]

Disembarking , does count as moving for shooting purposes .

[Night Lord Dred]

As great as I think havocs are, I dont think this setup does it.

 

I wouldnt run havocs unless it was:

 

4 autocannons

3 ACs/1 Missile

2 ACs/2 Missiles

 

 

Ive been toying with it, and I think 3 ACs with 1 missle for the blast template (to keep my opponent honest about his positioning) is best.

[Corpse.]

8 to 10+rhino+4 Flamers and/or Meltas, Pfist, Icon

8 to 10+rhino+4 Plasmas, Icon

8 to 10+rhino+4 Lascannons(or) Missile Launchers, Icon (hide ablative wound models behind rhino, shoot only tanks)

5 to 8+rhino with havoc launcher+4 Heavy Bolters or Autocannons

 

I believe these are the more likely havocs to be used.

 

I have seen 15 havocs with 4 lascannons been used before to the annoyance of an opponent. 365 points.

[minigun762]

I think you know the answer to this, and it's no.

 

You're right of course. I went into this with my eyes open but sometimes the idea of having an over the top unit sounds like fun.

[saintevil]

IMHO, i think they way too expensive. If you want a way over the top unit, i suggest 10man termicide, or even 9 oblits. I have used havocs severy time they die without killing anything. I love my defiler and 3 oblits combo. More expensive but killing 19sm and 15assault termies with termi librarian in 1 shooting phase is way worth it.

[Ashe Darke]

I think you know the answer to this, and it's no.

 

You're right of course. I went into this with my eyes open but sometimes the idea of having an over the top unit sounds like fun.

I like that you're always trying or at least thinking of new things though.

[chillin]

I have used havocs severy time they die without killing anything.

 

I certainly wouldn't say that, I think that havocs with HB's or AC's or AC's & HB's are a good unit. At 35 pts per, LC's are just too expensive, and a champ in a havoc squad is just a waste of 40 pts.

[Legatus]

I usually take that Champ upgrade (plus the IoCG) because I do not want my Havocs to run from taking ranged casualties. He does not get any weapon upgrades though.

[minigun762]

As great as I think havocs are, I dont think this setup does it.

 

I wouldnt run havocs unless it was:

 

4 autocannons

3 ACs/1 Missile

2 ACs/2 Missiles

 

For a serious unit, I'd agree with any of these selections.

On a related note, I think people should give the AC/ML Havocs a shot (no pun intended) if you haven't already. Their static nature might not mesh with your playstyle but its hard to beat their concentration of flexible firepower.

[Cornelias]

I think you know the answer to this, and it's no.

 

You're right of course. I went into this with my eyes open but sometimes the idea of having an over the top unit sounds like fun.

 

 

yeah i like experimenting alot with non optimal units, when i'm playing friendly games i usually try and add 1 unit that most people leave out there lists if only just to challenge myself.

 

it can be fun and sometimes the person your playing against dismisses the unit as no threat and i can come back and bite them in the ass :lol:

[tastytaste]

The autocannon Havoc Build is brutal for transport popping. Combo that with a rhino with a havoc launcher and you have a ghetto razorback. A lot of shots and a lot of potentional damage.

[Chaos Lord Shamrockius]

Well, I for one have nothing to add, still being in the position of building a Havoc squad. But I do find this topic interesting. I was originally going to go for a large (8-10 man) squad with 2 Lascannons and 2 HBs, with a tooled up Champ. THAT idea is now under reconsideration. I'm guessing the HBs are still a good idea and maybe ACs or MLs instead, along with fewer numbers. Thanks for starting this topic, and my Iron Warriors thank you also.

[Cpt. Postumus]

The autocannon Havoc Build is brutal for transport popping. Combo that with a rhino with a havoc launcher and you have a ghetto razorback. A lot of shots and a lot of potentional damage.

 

 

Four Autocannons in a Rhino seems like a waste to me. Only two of them can fire from the top hatch if you stay still or you can rush them up and drop them off wasting a turn of shooting AND letting your opponent have time to react to them. Is there another tactic I'm missing?

 

 

 

Postumus

[Night Lord Dred]

He didnt say you should put your guys in the rhino.