How are those Logan lists with WG troops working for you?

[BDS]

Took a hiatus as I diverged and built a themed Tson list using Maddox from the SW Omnibus as my HQ. Had to get the bad guys going for those themed battles.

 

But now, back to the Fang and in conjunction with a painting challenge for the year I am looking to start an army around Logan. I plan to use WG as troops, going mostly to ground with Cyclones galore. I will include some Long Fangs, fast elements, and probably a rune priest.

 

I have read quite a bit about the Logan armis and was curious how they are working out for everyone. Has anyone battle tested them in tournament play?

 

Is Logan worth his points?

 

Thanks for the input.

 

BDS

[Niiai]

What I personaly think looks good with a logan army is that you can for 21 get a storm bolter unit. Bolters are very good, and storm bolters more so. Your range would be amaisng. Of course the TDA is scary as well but you get only 1 stormbolter per 2 regular bolters you buy. If you plan on using TDA then mellee would seem to be the way to go since that is where the ekstra *mf* comes from in my opinion.

[WG Vrox]

So far so good with my list, I did do some revisions if you want to take a look at it, it over on the army list link under 2k revision. With the list at the top of the thread I placed 19th overall out of 90 people in an Indy GT using Logan attached to some Long Fangs. My rolling held me back, actually some of the most consistently worse rolling I have done in a long time, but them the breaks.

 

What is nice about Logan is the dynamic roll he can play in a list meaning you can choose to run him with your LF or WG or GH, basically anything he joins becomes supercharged. Relentless and Long Fangs is a deadly combo.

 

Now it seems like you are looking for an all WG army, I would try to talk you out of such a list and instead run GH for a few squads to keep your point costs down and your lists effectiveness up.

 

What you do have to do is decide on is if you are going to run TDA or PA WG and what type of transportation you plan to use. Would be glad to take a look at a list you are thinking of if you want to post it up.

 

 

Vrox.

[SamaNagol]

How are GH more cost effective than WG? Outside of getting proper Meltaguns instead of combis.

[Niiai]

The GH costs less, and are great. The come only with the standar bolter but as a rule of thumb the 2 GH is better then one in TDA unles you guve the one in TDA some cool mellee weaponds.

[Gentlemanloser]

What I personaly think looks good with a logan army is that you can for 21 get a storm bolter unit.

 

If you want to do that, you should instead ally in some PAGK. For just a few more points, you get SB, Fearless, WS5 and S6.

 

The best thing about WG as Troops (and probably the only reason to use them as such) are 33 point Terminators. You can't get a Marine squad with power wepaons that cheap *anywhere* (exlcuding possibly the new BA Dex...) else in the imperium. That they also come with 2+/5++ saves is just gravy.

[SamaNagol]

The GH costs less, and are great. The come only with the standar bolter but as a rule of thumb the 2 GH is better then one in TDA unles you guve the one in TDA some cool mellee weaponds.

 

You don't HAVE to get WG in terminator armour. 18pts WG in PA are excellent value with their higher Ld and extra attack.

[Quillen]

It depends. I have a Logan drop pod list. It tied game one and tabled them turn 4 on the second game. Not sure if it would work ina tourny thou.

 

I have made up 5 versions of it. And I can't pick the one I will use yet. I want to Drop pod cause I have 11 pods I won on Ebay. I wanted 7 and won 11 go figure. Oh well.

 

What was you list you placed 19th with?

[SamaNagol]

I have mainly gone drop pod. But I am going to look at 1 Raider 2 Razorbacks and 2 Pods.

[breng77]

You don't HAVE to get WG in terminator armour. 18pts WG in PA are excellent value with their higher Ld and extra attack.

 

The only issue with this is that WG don't have bolters so they are worse in shooting unless you pay extra points for it or sacrifice having 2 cc weapons (which makes them Grey hunters with better leadership, and worse weapon options). SO if I were going to run an all wolf guard list I would lean toward mostly terminators simply because if you start taking options on them it is cheaper than if you keep them in PA. That said I am not a fan of an all wolf guard army with logan, for expensive troops he is too point heavy (Not that he is not worth his points, just he really limits what you can take in your army at lower point costs)

[SamaNagol]

Nah you can specialise units nicely.

 

You want to shoot? Add a model in Terminator armour and give him a special weapon. Throw in a couple of combi-weapons and mix the rest up evenly between BP & CCW and Bolters.

[WG Vrox]

How are GH more cost effective than WG? Outside of getting proper Meltaguns instead of combis.

 

Because for 15 points instead of 18 you get the option of having both a bolter and a BP/CC, you may think this is a small thing but for a MEQ army it's what makes SW have the best PA marine in the game. Sure add a SB at 21 points and you have a nice ranged unit that can move / shoot 24" and assault, but when you are talking 10 models thats 60 points difference.

 

33 points for a TDA WG is truly the best way to go and worthy of at least one 5 unit squad, 1 CML/SB/PW, 3 SB/PW, 1 CM/CF is a fantastic unit to run, however at 215 you can only afford a few units of this type in a list and remain competitive.

 

Now don't get me wrong having a couple WG units is what a Logan list is all about, what I am saying is for scoring units you don't need all WG in a Logan list and having 2 units of GH will give you the same coverage and 120 more points to use elsewhere.

 

Vrox

[BDS]

So far so good with my list, I did do some revisions if you want to take a look at it, it over on the army list link under 2k revision. With the list at the top of the thread I placed 19th overall out of 90 people in an Indy GT using Logan attached to some Long Fangs. My rolling held me back, actually some of the most consistently worse rolling I have done in a long time, but them the breaks.

 

What is nice about Logan is the dynamic roll he can play in a list meaning you can choose to run him with your LF or WG or GH, basically anything he joins becomes supercharged. Relentless and Long Fangs is a deadly combo.

 

Now it seems like you are looking for an all WG army, I would try to talk you out of such a list and instead run GH for a few squads to keep your point costs down and your lists effectiveness up.

 

What you do have to do is decide on is if you are going to run TDA or PA WG and what type of transportation you plan to use. Would be glad to take a look at a list you are thinking of if you want to post it up.

 

 

Vrox.

 

Thanks for the input. I checked out your 2k list and posted a cpl comments there. The thing I like most is the flexibility with the WG. You can make a unit good at anything and many times good at a couple things.

 

Like some have said, I don't think I need a SC to be competitive. I just like what he brings to the army and will be working for a themed, yet still competitive list.

 

This is a ROUGH draft of my list thoughts, circa pre codex release. I have some nasty ideas for some allies in the future and with a DH/WH codex being talked about I may sprinkle the odd ally in for themed leagues or when I get tired of Deamons and Eldar (which I see a whole bunch in these parts).

 

I picked up a Logan blister as some swag at the recent Tourny I attended, so time to get going. BTW, I played Tsons with Maddox being represented by Abaddon (the spear of Russ in hand). Took only 2 troops, 2 LR, 2 Dreds and nearly went 3-0. Point being low numbers of troops don't phase me.

 

But, I digress. here is my ROUGH DRAFT, with room for some additions at 2000pts:

 

Logan Grimnar 270

 

Rune Priest: bike, Jaws, Storm 135

 

Scouts: #5, 5xmb, 1xMoW 115

 

T1: #4xWG, 4xSB, 1xTDA w/cyclone 147

T2: #4xWG, 4xSB, 1xTDA w/cyclone 147

 

T3: #4xWG, 4xSB, 1xTDA w/HF, DP 157

T4: #4xWG, 4xSB, 1xTDA w/HF, DP 157

 

T5: #8xWG, 8xSB, 1xTDA w/HF, 1xTDA w/Cyclone 269

 

LF1: #6, 5MM, DP 175

LF2: #6 3PC, 2LC 175

LF3: #6 3PC, 2LC 175

 

 

TTL: 1922

 

Notes circa pre dex release: The remaining points to 2000 would go towards chainfists for the WG with the HF in DP’s, and some MoW.

 

Logan would go with either the large WG squad or drop with the MM LF’s. That choice can be made at deployment. Also I can choose to put a WG with each LF, and one with the scout squad at deployment subbing from the large WG squad.

 

My thoughts would be to add a MoW to one member of the large WG troop, to hang with the scouts; that puts two in the squad for 2x the rending.

 

The RP hangs with the group to give Storm cover and has the mobility to line up a few good shots with Jaws. I am not looking for huge results here, but imply a huge threat. Of course turbo + multiple other threats allow him to split off and line up some really nice JaWs attempts with practice.

 

Thanks for any input,

BDS

[SamaNagol]

You have an 8 man unit with an Heavy Flamer & CML. You need 10 models to have 2 special weapons.

[BDS]

You have an 8 man unit with an Heavy Flamer & CML. You need 10 models to have 2 special weapons.

 

 

Sorry, It's 8 + 1HF WG + 1 CML WG = 10.

 

BDS

[glsn]

I use a Logan list (as shown here http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.p...owtopic=190558) that has been working well for me.

 

I find that I usually have very few models left on the field at the end of the game, but win anyways, since almost everything is scoring. As well, My fire power doesn't usually get touched right until the end of the game since I can usually just take off bolters and the CML have a 2+ for when they do have to take a saves anyways.

[Sarapham]

What I personaly think looks good with a logan army is that you can for 21 get a storm bolter unit.

 

The best thing about WG as Troops (and probably the only reason to use them as such) are 33 point Terminators. You can't get a Marine squad with power wepaons that cheap *anywhere* (exlcuding possibly the new BA Dex...) else in the imperium. That they also come with 2+/5++ saves is just gravy.

 

 

Well a wolf guard with power weapon is "just" 28 points, so they do come cheaper but I would agree that for 5 points more the TDA is better.

[the jeske]

You don't HAVE to get WG in terminator armour. 18pts WG in PA are excellent value with their higher Ld and extra attack.

 

3 pts more then a normal dude thats 30 points more per squad considering you would take 3-4 squads of troops anyway your looking at 120pts less then a GH centered list , for guys that still die like normal meq , hit with the same str and the same I. Then there is logan ... a GH build HQ is a cheap runepries[x2 if possible] not a land raider in points . Also the point problem doesnt stop here because a GH build has RP build in it doesnt have to worry about taking them , a Longan build still has to take a RP or a GK GM this is even more points spent .

 

making the squads of wg more killy costs points [from a list that already pay more for HQs and troops]. so yeah in the end GH builds are more cost effective.

[HERO]

How are GH more cost effective than WG? Outside of getting proper Meltaguns instead of combis.

 

More models for the cost.

Wolf Standard.

Just a lot of dudes.

Inexpensive; best Marines for their cost right now.

[WG Vrox]

Logan Grimnar 270

 

Rune Priest: bike, Jaws, Storm 135

 

Scouts: #5, 5xmb, 1xMoW 115

 

T1: #4xWG, 4xSB, 1xTDA w/cyclone 147

T2: #4xWG, 4xSB, 1xTDA w/cyclone 147

 

T3: #4xWG, 4xSB, 1xTDA w/HF, DP 157

T4: #4xWG, 4xSB, 1xTDA w/HF, DP 157

 

T5: #8xWG, 8xSB, 1xTDA w/HF, 1xTDA w/Cyclone 269

 

LF1: #6, 5MM, DP 175

LF2: #6 3PC, 2LC 175

LF3: #6 3PC, 2LC 175

 

 

Strongly suggest a CF on your HF WG in the DP as well as at least one in your 10 squad. Expensive but you will wish you had it If not for Dreads and the like for high T targets. I would also suggest a CM here and there if only for the ability to pop a transport so you can assault whats inside.

 

So how to pay for it all, about the only place I see is either the WS or dropping the 10 man squad down to 5. I would go with the Scouts myself.

 

Definitily worth a playtest or two though.

 

Vrox

[Gentlemanloser]

Well a wolf guard with power weapon is "just" 28 points, so they do come cheaper but I would agree that for 5 points more the TDA is better.

 

Nice!

 

Can't belive I've missed that. :P

 

But, yeah, for 5 points you get TDA and a SB. That's a steal! So 28 poits a mini is the target to beat now for Marines with Power Weapons. Let's se what the Blodd Angels can do! :wub:

[SamaNagol]

Adding an extra attack and an extra point of Ld for only 3 pts to a standard troop unit is incredibly good value. AND you can add in Relentless heavy weapons who can also take special CCW.

 

I think Wolf Guard are fantastic personally.

[the jeske]

AND you can add in Relentless heavy weapons who can also take special CCW.

in one squad.