Storm Speeder

[Montuhotep]

Simple, really;

 

Which scout build is more suited to riding a Storm? I have an option of a small 'gun' squad (bolters and Heavy Bolter) to grab an objective or contest it with the foe, a sniper unit with the ability to redploy somewhere useful if needed or a small CC squad to basically annoy people with and outflank if the opportunity arises (nip around the sides, not the special rule).

 

So which would people recommend?

[Frijj]

I would suggest a CC scout squad, the speeder is out there then, shooting things, stoping things coming down in the right place.

 

On the turn the unit charges having deployed out the speeder the enemy is at -2LD. so i would suggest charging them in with something hard hitting, that way you are securing the wing with the scouts attacks and that they will run away, or if they are fearless you will have two more taking wounds than usual. I run that scout squad in storm, with a powerfist to give it some hitting power.

 

The scout heavy bolter will not be able to fire on the move, and 5 scouts usually dont have the punch to take objectives. the snipers will take 2 turns to redeploy, this means that they will only fire for 3 out of 5 turns, or more if the game goes on.

 

Also the CC squad has more chance of shifting someone off the objective. More attacks, power weapon or powerfist. Also it could be a teleport homer that could move upto 24" a turn.

 

For me the CC scouts have more tactical flexability in the storm than anyone else.

You could always give the leader a combi melta, cook a tank, or melta bombs. Always funny

[CF Scout]

I think equiping the Storm with a heavy flamer and the scouts with shotguns would make for some good drive byes.

 

The Heavy Flamer negates the lower ballistic skill and the shotguns are assault weapons, so can fire on the move.

 

That said I am planning to go with two Storms eventually. One for the drive byes and one for an assault squad.

[FlamingDeth]

I think equiping the Storm with a heavy flamer and the scouts with shotguns would make for some good drive byes.

 

The Heavy Flamer negates the lower ballistic skill and the shotguns are assault weapons, so can fire on the move.

 

That said I am planning to go with two Storms eventually. One for the drive byes and one for an assault squad.

If you're using them for driveby's with no intention to assault, you may as well give them boltguns. Shotguns are AP- whereas boltguns are AP5, and if you're in range for shotguns you're in range for rapidfire.

 

I'd still go with CC scouts, though, especially if you run two at once. With -4 to the enemy leadership, even if you only win by one or two wounds, that's still a pretty good chance to sweep.

[waaanial00]

OK on the subject as a whole I think CC scouts with a Power Weapon and combi flamer is a decent way to crack a unit in combat.

 

On the subject of whats better between shotguns and bolters for a storm squad I think the AP5 is clouding the subject. From the prespective of whats better overall I would still say that shotguns top the bill. Let me explain:

 

AP5 is nice and all that but even if the enemy gets their 5+ save 2/3 of the time they are going to fail it, which means that 2 of the 3 wounds you are putting on that unit are still confirmed kills. However where the shotgun really rules the roost in this scenario is that it gives you the option of following up with combat if your shooting was not effective enough. With bolters you spray and pray however with the shotguns you still have options if you find that the guns didnt do the job.

 

Of course against anything with 4+ or better armour the shotguns still work better because of the same reasons, so overall its a better option for me.

 

Wan

[Grey Mage]

And I think you might be a lil crazy- why mix a PW and a C-F? Might as well drop the 10pts to make it a fist if you dont want the extra attack.

 

For my money- Powerfist on the seargent, and either all BP+CCW or 50-50 BP+CCW and Shotguns, in a LSS with HF- 160pt fast moving scoring unit with good anti-horde capabilities that can bust open most tanks. Combi-weapon optional, as are meltabombs.

[greatcrusade08]

OK on the subject as a whole I think CC scouts with a Power Weapon and combi flamer is a decent way to crack a unit in combat.

 

Wan is right with this statement. If you want to make best use of the cerberus launchers you need to deal damge in assault.

to this end a combi flamer (to maximise pre assault casulties) and a power weapon works, although keeping the pistol for the extra attack is also a valid choice.

 

i always double up on my weapons, so in a heavy flamer storm i take a combi-flamer, in the MM storm i take combi-melta and meltabombs.

This makes them more capable at thier given job

 

grey mage is right, a fist and combi-flamer is the best combo, but for killing troops a PW is usually good enough

[waaanial00]

And I think you might be a lil crazy

 

You sir are a shrewd judge of character, almost everyone who meets me thinks im crazy to one extent or another ;)

 

Wan

[Koremu]

There is a pretty good argument for taking a Heavy Weapon in the squad. Enfilading Frag or Krak Missiles, especially if the board displays a preponderance of Directional Linear Terrain rather than Area Cover, is a perfectly valid backup strategy for very cheap.

[WAR]

Am I strange that I always Purchase my Storms in twos, seriously I built an all scout army a while ago (and sold due to lack of playing time and too many armies) and when I went to buy the LSS I bought 2. Yesterday I went to buy storms for my CF and bought 2 for them (I do plan on fielding in pairs).

 

But Back on topic I have used mine with melee troops (usally Sgt PW or PF) and the 2 LSS had Multi Meltas, the current 2 will have Heavy Bolters.

[Grey Mage]

And I think you might be a lil crazy

 

You sir are a shrewd judge of character, almost everyone who meets me thinks im crazy to one extent or another :)

 

Wan

Fair enough Wan, though to be honest they say the same about me.

 

*slips you a flask and whispers* Heres an Ale on me.

[Giga]

If I was running a storm, I would do it like this, and probably do it in a Vulkan list too;

 

Storm with multimelta

5 men combat scout squad with combimelta and meltabombs

 

The idea would be to take out an expensive tank first turn. If I don't get first turn, I would put the scouts into outflank.

[greatcrusade08]

If your running Vulkan its probably the best use, otherwise id say the heavy flamer/combi-flamer is the best option.

infact in my scout lisst youll find one of each.. my MM storm once even wrecked a monolith ;)

[Montuhotep]

Thanks for the advice so far, gents - would you ever consider bolting an assault cannon onto it instead or is that just wasted points?

[Grey Mage]

Wasted points- ACs are bad enough on regular speeders Ill rarely take them, on a storm? heck no!

[Giga]

Thanks for the advice so far, gents - would you ever consider bolting an assault cannon onto it instead or is that just wasted points?

Wasted points. Storm is BS3, after all.

 

If you're gonna give it any weapon, then heavy flamer would be the best IMHO since it ignores its crappy BS. On the other hand, if you're running Vulkan a multimelta would be the best IMHO as it allows you to use scout move to turbo boost and get a good melta-range shot on pretty much any vehicle in turn 1.

[rat of vengence]

LSS with flamer, sergeant with powerfist (and combiflamer if points allow) 4 scouts with CCW/pistol. This is brilliant, especially when out flanking. You have so many options with this unit.

I wouldn't outfit any heavy weapon except the heavy flamer, due to the BS3. Who wants to risk only hitting half the time with a multimelta, and not everyone uses the Vulkan Crutch . There have been plenty of times I have toasted then assaulted a lonely squad sitting on an objective in the opponents backfield, but if that doesn't look survivable then adding firepower/bodies to a combo assault with assault marines works nicely too.

 

Really, what is bad about an outflanking, fast moving heavy flamer template? :P

 

RoV

[Giga]

From my own experience, heavy flamer LSS doesn't survive long enough to be useful.

 

I usually huddle inside transport for the first turn, making myself pretty much immune to heavy flamers, so the opponent's LSS normally flies around doing nothing, or waiting in outflank. Either way, its heavy flamer can rarely do much if anything on first turn, and is unlikely to be able to do much or anything in later turns when it arrives, either (at the very best, it's going to pop some wounds on a combat squad, resulting in 1 dead marine).

 

I suppose it would be more useful against guard with lots of infantry, or marines who run sniper scouts, or footslogging armies, etc. but these are quite scarce at my local metagame, leading me to believe that heavy flamer would end up being largely useless most of the time.

 

Which is why I think a multimelta is better, because it allows the LSS+5 combat scouts to do that 1st turn kamikaze strike that gives them a good chance to take out an expensive tank or force the opponent to focus fire on them while the rest of your army advances. This, I believe, is their best purpose, which is why they would do a great job of supporting an aggressive Vulkan list, since throwing two LSS+5 scouts at the enemy in turn 1 would draw their attention away from the incoming army in a way that not even a drop podded dread can. Of course, KPs would be the problem...

 

Granted, all this is hypothetical, since I don't own a LSS of my own.

[greatcrusade08]

A well implementd kamikaze squad can do alot of damage.. my best yet was LSS with heavy flamer and ccw squad with meltabombs.. took out a sniper squad with telion AND a vindicator on the first turn between them..

[white radish]

Thanks for the advice so far, gents - would you ever consider bolting an assault cannon onto it instead or is that just wasted points?

 

I would consider it, but it is expensive even if it gives you more tactical flexibility. That being said, it is effectively scoring (in the way that Tau Devilfish are scoring - when they are bought to carry scoring units) while LSTs and Dreads are not. As stated, however, there are better LSS options.

 

Heavy Flamer works nicely with the LSS cerebrus launchers. The Heavy Bolter is "free". The MM is AP1 Melta. In the right situation, each of these will be better than the Assault Cannon.

 

In a multi LSS list, then the Assault Cannon version might be worth taking. You might not want Heavy Flamers on everything if you tend to face more mechanized opponents. The Heavy Bolter is BS3 and not at all reliable against light vehicles, and only just worth taking due to the 0 additional point cost. The MM works well with certain HQ, but not as well with others.

 

You may have a ton of Assault Cannon bits (I know I do from all the Ravenwing boxes). The LSS kit does not come with the HFlamer or MM option. There's this practical aspect to it, of having bits on hand.

 

I couldn't seriously recommend the Assault Cannon LSS, but I might build one because I love the LSS kits. One in you lists might not be completely bad if you have points available at the end.

[Montuhotep]

I'll tell the truth; this LSS is going to be a 'counts as' using the new Elysian Venator from Forgeworld. I plan on bolting the assault cannon onto the front of the turret and running feed lines to an ammo hopper on the back. If I roof the turret over then the Cerberus will go atop that. Light on one side, beacon on the other and plastic CCW scouts hanging off the sides.

 

Such is the plan though given the suggestions here, I'll probably go with the HF and MM options as well and just magnetise the guns.

 

Thanks guys!

[WAR]

Nice!

[rat of vengence]

From my own experience, heavy flamer LSS doesn't survive long enough to be useful.

 

Granted, all this is hypothetical, since I don't own a LSS of my own.

Then your opponents need to learn how to use one :)

 

Outflank is the key, it means coming in later in the game and having a VERY good chance of being able to contribute both a heavy flamer template (which hurts even marines) or a CC Scout squad to you combined team attack. If you local meta throws LSS's at tough targets on their lonesome I am not surprised they don't achieve much.

 

Things I have successfully used my LSS for;

 

Taking out 15 orks holding an objective

Flaming a brood of genestealers, which was finished off by a rapid firing tactical squad

Adding a HF template to the gunning down of Logan Grimnar and his Wolf Guard, finished off by the Scouts and an Assault squad

Delivering a powerfist to a Vindicator

 

It is not an uber weapon. It is a very fast moving support unit that can take objectives if they ignore it.

 

Besides, it is hard to see the value in something and have a useful comment if you haven't even had a go with it.

 

RoV

[Br.Pat]

Scouts in a LSS should always be kitted out for CC in my opinion. I just don't see the point of drive-by shooting. If you move over 12" you get a cover save fine, but you can't fire your main weapon. And exactly how effective is 10 shotgun blasts? In my opinion the Land Raider storm should move at cruising speed, let off a heavy flamer blast, the scouts disembark firing their assault weapons and assault the enemy. This way you get atleast 5 AP 5 shots which can bypass light armour. Not to mention a potential combi flamer blast. The additional attacks in CC would be able to finish the squad off, even if it is MEQ. And especially if the seargent has a Power Weapon (which imo is more effective in a small squad than a power fist).