Solid units to comprise a list.

[jjfelber]

I would look this information up, but i have no idea what to look for.

 

What are some competitive staples across Fenris that you all use?

 

Staples that are used because you would be dumb not to in a competitive list.

 

 

Please be detailed, and explain why the units are good and "Competitive" (not staples for fluff)

[Sarapham]

Well the two pure basics of an army are at least one Rune priest, most often with Living lightning as one of the two power.

 

The other basic is packs of grey hunters. One of the best troops in the game you should at least try to have 1 pack per 500 points, sometimes more.

 

After that it comes down to prefered style of play to what works I believe.

[Wildfire]

What he said. Grey Hunters are fantastic. And Rune Priests are no slouches either, although probably not as mandatory as Grey Hunters.

[Sarapham]

And Rune Priests are no slouches either, although probably not as mandatory as Grey Hunters.

 

Except you know, the mandatory HQ slot :)

 

But you are right, there is of course a lot of leeway with our HQs but I would say the RP is the most cost efficient.

[Athalus]

runepriest is solid, grey hunters are solid. Then grab long fangs, some rhinos, and you got yourself a nice little army!

 

runepriest b/c he is the most effecient point spend for an HQ (usually 110 pts with chooser)

Grey hunters b/c they are better than bloodclaws... and b/c they are very versitile and pwn.

Long fangs because split fire is great, having 5-6 wounds on your heavy support is great, they have good leadership, and can be hard to take down

Rhinos, or drop pods, because you want to be mobile (pretty consistent throughout most lists, except foot sloggers).

 

The most variation comes when you choose if you want tanks or fast attack choices, and what to do with elites.

Scouts: good, but i find them quite situational

Lone Wolf: quite the tarpit, its like having a mini wolf lord with saga of the eternal warrior for free... just remember to take f-wolves for extra wounds

Wolf gaurd: a serious staple to any list - increases the leadershp of your grey hunters, and always worth it, even if your grey hunters get reduced to 9 and you don't get that free weapon, you get an extra attack, more leadership, and a selection of great toys (i prefer combi-w/e, and thunderhammer/powerfists). not to mention the TDA with CML is great with the Long fangs.

Dreadnaughts: I don't use em, but I hear they are good.

 

Jump packs - not worth it imo, but some have success (its very expensive to give them a mentor, which makes it really hard to field in an efficient manner)

Bikers: situational, have to really be using them for a specific purpose (much like blood claws, b/c of their lower skills). They can, however, do what you tell them to quite well, and create a lot of headaches. (make sure to put a mentor with them)

F-wolves: great if you take saga of the wolfkin on your HQ, and pretty much not worth it otherwise (except to soak up the wounds).

TWC: my favorite unit, ever. So much potential, so much havoc, so much fun.

Land speeders: great versatility if you kit em right (flamers/typhoon, melta/typhoon), and can perform in many different situations. Good to pop w/e, or just mow em down.

 

Tanks xyz: usually grab them in pairs, to create extra targets. All of them are good, all of them you have to make sure to use them correctly or your wasting points.

[jjfelber]

Rune Priest... Check!

Grey Hunters... Check!

 

But how do you equip your GHs / Rune Priest?

 

I read somewhere, Runepriests should not cost more then 110pts

 

What about GHs? on foot out in a rhino/droppod? All decked out or save pts? Quantity or Quality?

 

Do you add a WG leader or save pts? How do you equip him?

 

As for Long Fangs, do you take them instead of Vehicles? Unit size? What weapons?

[rodgers37]

do you want a tank force(mech) or footsloggin?

Rhinos i think are better than Drop pods....imo anyway..

 

but in a footsloggin army, you want some fast attack, Fen Wolves i find are useful, just for a protective screen :)

 

Long Fangs, 3 ML 2 LC in a unit is good :)

[Athalus]

Rune Priest... Check!

Grey Hunters... Check!

 

But how do you equip your GHs / Rune Priest?

 

I read somewhere, Runepriests should not cost more then 110pts

 

What about GHs? on foot out in a rhino/droppod? All decked out or save pts? Quantity or Quality?

 

Do you add a WG leader or save pts? How do you equip him?

 

As for Long Fangs, do you take them instead of Vehicles? Unit size? What weapons?

 

Keep your runepriest cost down to 110, just take chooser. IF you want them to go into the fray, you can up them to 130 with TDA (its a decent model, too).

 

For your GH you will want anywhere from 6-10, usually about 8-9 with a wolf lord. You want to take meltaguns (i dont like plasma, others do), and a special close combat weapon. I also take mark of the wolven because mathhammer says its more efficient than a power weapon, but I also take that too. My standard GH unit is about 8 strong, with motw, power fist, melta gun, a wolf guard with a combi-melta, thunderhammer, and a drop pod. I play a drop pod list, but u can quickly change that over to rhino's. You can also make it 9 if you have the points.

 

I try go have 3 squads from 1500-2000 pts, 2 squads below 1000. Because my squads are more kitted out than most, I find I run less of them. One of my squads usually has a standard, so that my fast attack can go help them and use that standard to the max.

 

You will want rhino's or drop pods, its a matter of personal preference. I like to drop pod in because the rest of my army is fast attack and I just want to get all over the opponent (I play 13th co. - No tanks). You can just as easily implement rhinos, though, although its up to you whether you deem extra armour worth the points (some say its a must have, I am not sure because I never use them).

 

You want your long fangs maxed out, and you want them with missile launchers. If you don't have lascannons on a vehicle, then you want to do the 3ML/2LC split, as they can split fire and use that combination quite well.

[Sarapham]

I usually take my RP with atleast a chooser of the slain, which I think is pretty mandatory for the cheap points. Other than that you can do it pretty much as you wish but keeping him cheap is rather good, though saga of the beastslayer can be gold against certain opponents. Though I will say that you should probably never buy an expensive gun for him, like a plasmapistol cause his powers take the role of shooting for him.

 

Regarding GH; Always in transports unless you run a full list with people on foot or they are just for objective sitting. Weapons can vary depending on the role you want the to have.

 

Good all around: Use meltagun, powersword and/or mark of the wulfen depending on how many points you can afford... but a standard is for me mandatory in the larger squads because of its great use for a few points.

 

Good shootier: use plasmagun instead of meltagun but otherwise pretty much the same.. maybe just use one of the above close combat upgrades to save points as they will try to shoot more but always standard once more.

 

Good anti-horde: use flamer instead and Motw more than PW.

 

Regarding WG I almost always use them in my meltasquads as they will rush more forwards to get stuck in and I feel the benefits of the WG with more LD and extra PF/TH attacks helps alot more than the one-shot melta detracts.

 

In a plasmasquad I usually skip the WG cause I feel the squads main purpose is then instead to pump out as many shots as possible to support the melta packs.

[jjfelber]

If Thunderwolves are so great in a pack of 4, why don't more people use them?

[Sarapham]

If Thunderwolves are so great in a pack of 4, why don't more people use them?

 

There are no real models for them except Canis. And if you dont want lots of Canis models it can be a hassle to get a hold of/make some.

[styx]

Well, like everyone said above is some great advice. One thing I would like to start out with the Space Wolf Codex has a variety of choices that allows several different lists to be viable to use and play with depending on your play style. One thing I would suggest is develop the core of your army first, 1 HQ and 2 troops, then expand from there. Another good thing is to perhaps play some test games using other models to proxy what you want to test out in a few games to see if you want to invest in it.

 

On to my thoughts:

HQ wise: Don’t get stuck on having to take name characters. Many are over pointed and not worth it as well as it dips into the meat of your list. A Rune Priest is an idea first choice.

 

Lord: Frost Weapons, Twin Wolf Claws or Thunderhammer/Powerfist with a storm shield are popular. Toss in Saga of the Warrior or Bear, take the Belt of Russ if you take the double claws (or go single and take a storm shield). A popular one is mounted on a Thunder Wolf or inside a Land Raider with Blood Claws.

 

Rune Priest: Most people will agree that Lighting is one of the best picks. Take the Watcher of the Dead to get a BS of 5. I tend to keep them cheap, others like to upgrade them more. To me you could almost buy another for the points spent on upgrades. He gives a good psychic defense and your second choice of power gives you some options.

 

Wolf Priest: A good choice for Blood Claws or Scouts if you ask me. They benefit the most from his presence. You have to take Saga of the Hunter if you plan to include him into the Scouts.

 

Elites:

Dreadnoughts are one of those love or hate models. Most people use multiple drop pods consider putting Dreads in.

 

Iron Priest: Not shabby if on a Thunderwolf and 4 Cyberwolves. Can be a very dangerous unit. Granted this is a challenge to build as they don’t make this model.

 

Scouts: Another love’em or hate’em unit. Figure out what you want out of them, don’t over point them and make sure they have support from something like a Wolf Guard. A good choice is a combi melta and power fist. Add this to a melta gun, Mark of the Wulfin and perhaps a power sword or two, this becomes a lethal unit. It can add up quick.

 

Lone Wolf: A good tarpit unit, but hard to use for some. Terminator armor is a must, I like a Storm Shield and Chainfist.

 

Wolf Guard: I’ve not pushed into Terminators much but I find regular ones to be nice to put into Grey Hunter, Scout and even to bump up #s of Long Fang squads. Again my choice is a power fist and combi melta for the first two, Long Fangs enjoy just a normal Wolf Guard.

 

Troop wise: Grey Hunters are better all around and perhaps one of the best troops out there. Take 9, I special weapon (flamer or melta), mark of wulfin and a transport for them, add a Wolf Guard to bolster them up. You could put a power weapon or second fist in but gets expensive. Blood Claws are best in VERY large packs and usually packed inside a Crusader with a Wolf Guard and/or Character.

 

Fast Attack: This comes to taste and to me one of the last areas to add to your list. Thunderwolves are popular but also expensive and you should do some serious homework before you take them. A cheap popular choice is a speeder with a multi melta and flamer.

 

Fast Attack: Long Fangs are great, two squads or even 3 are ideal. If you go for Land Raiders, take two, one is going to die. Same goes for most anything else like Vindicators, Predators, etc…

 

Long Fangs to me work best with 3 missile launchers and 2 lascannons with a Wolf Guard as padding with the leader and I like adding a Rune Priest to pitch in living lighting.

 

Focus on core, start building that up, it’s tempting to buy stuff because it sounds cool. Do some homework read online, play test the unit in a few games, examine some battle reports and you will learn.

[jjfelber]

How do you protect a WG with a PF/TH? They strike at initiative 1, so won't the foe you are trying to crush, just kill you before you strike? Allocate attacks at your WG, killing them just as easily as if your WG was a GH?

[Athalus]

Can't allocate to the WG, not an independent character.

[Sarapham]

How do you protect a WG with a PF/TH? They strike at initiative 1, so won't the foe you are trying to crush, just kill you before you strike? Allocate attacks at your WG, killing them just as easily as if your WG was a GH?

 

 

They cant allocate attacks against it as they are not independent characters. They are completely counted as being a part of the unit.

[Stormbrow II]

If Thunderwolves are so great in a pack of 4, why don't more people use them?

A: They're better in packs of 3 with hardly any gear to keep the points down (so you can get another pack :))

B: €35 each. And the wolf looks like a muscular rat, hairy cow or steroid-abusing kitty. There's been tonnes of different things he's been called, all unflattering.

 

Grey Hunters and Rune Priests are a must. Anything beyond that is personal preference.

[Athalus]

One of the large problems with TWC is that you can be forced into moral checks pretty quickly if you get caught in the long range. I usually don't worry once I get up close as they tend to win most hand to hand combats (along as it not the big bad). Nevertheless they only have 8 leadership and can only take lords to improve it, which can be a big point spend and a hassle. Just make sure you advance in cover, be it from terrain or behind a rhino, bikes, F-wolves (although they are often to short to give 50%) or other tanks.

 

When you get TWC, you have to think of it in terms of comparison to grey hunters. For 50pts, what are you getting that you don't get for 15 pts? Well, 3x grey hunters is 45 pts, so is one TWC worth more than 3 grey hunters? Furthermore, if you are getting a special weapon, and maybe a storm shield for that group (say a group of 4, so divide 25+30 by 4) you add 13 pts to the model, so thats essentially 4 grey hunters you could have bought, or 3 grey hunters with a weapon upgrade. So lets do a comparison:

 

4 Grey hunters:

4 wounds, 4 attacks, 1 less toughness, 1 less str, same save, same base move but way less charge, no fleet.

 

3 Grey hunters

3 wounds, 3 attacks, 1 special weapon, 1 less toughness, 1 less str, same save, same base move but way less charge, no fleet.

 

1 TWC (with a squad with SS and powerfist or thunder hammer)

2 wounds, 4 attacks, 1 special weapon, 1 invulnerable save, rending, 1 more str, 1 more toughness, fleet, crazy ass charge

 

Now these aren't completely comparable, as its not comparing the whole squad (which would see the TWC equal a tooled out grey hunters squad + WG). In general you are losing out in wounds, but not much else, and you recieve some extra toughness, str, and mobility. Remember that you can only attach lords to this squad to compensate for their 8ld (something grey hunters can solve with wolf guard).

 

So, it becomes an issue of what role do you want them to perfrom, and they are great at many. TWC should be used to harry flanks, back door tanks, and assist grey hunters in the thick of combat - these badboys will swing any combat to your favour, and because of their quick speed are great reinforcements to help your squads that are in trouble. Thus I see them as an opportunistic attack squad, or an immediate response team who comes to the aid of your troops right away.

 

Thus they may not be the be all and end all unit of the Space wolves, but if taken in this context they are quite effective and very deadly. They also draw a lot fire, so be careful with them. Lastly, they are a killer pain in the ass to make, so do some dry runs to see if its for you before you invest the time.

[HERO]

Oh boy. I love these threads.

 

Rune Priests with Murderours Hurricane + another spell.

- Best HQ buy in the book. 4+ to dispel any psychic ability in 24" plus awesome abilities, force weapon. All for 100 points.

 

Wolf Priest.

- Great buy. 100 points for Preferred Enemy on 80% of standard lists are amazing. Buy a Runic Armor for 120 points of 2+/4+ if you really want.

 

Arjac Rockfist.

- He MURDERS MCs and ICs and can't be picked out in combat. Can throw a S10 hammer at BS5 and re-rolls to hit on ICs/MCs, always hitting on 3s and wounding on 2s.. causing ID to everything T5 and below. Probably the one of the most overpowered, I mean, great buys.

 

Grey Hunters

- 3 attacks each on the charge and with counter-attack. Can be taken in 10s for 2x special weapons or 9x + Wolf Guard with Fist for flexibility. Can be given Wolf Standard and Mark of the Wolfen. A fully kited squad of 9x + Wolf Guard with Fist, CbM, Standard, Mark and a Rhino is 243 points of pure flexibility.

 

Long Fangs

- Great buy for the points; given infantry killer is 3x HB and 2x PC for 145 points or 5x ML for flexibility at 140 points. Split fire is insane when used in groups of 2+. Simply amazing stuff here.

 

Wolf Guard Termies

- For 33 points, you get a Stormbolter and Power Sword and Counter-attack. That's pretty great man. Think about it.

 

Thunderwolf Cavalry

- Would be higher on my list because it is a great unit.. but we have no models for them yet and they're a hassle to come by.

 

Other than that, the standard SM things are great: Land Raiders, Land Speeders, Whirlwinds..etc. The ones listed above are what makes us truly unique.

[Fang]

This is a great topic, im new myself and looking for advice also. Other members have gone into great depth to explain the reasons behind what they are suggesting, great stuff.

[commander alexander]

To kit out you're grey hunters, I would give them the free flamer, and then a free melta if you have ten (gives the unit good versatility and is free). I also would give them all the other options, but I would recommend mark of the wulfen, it gives the unit a little extra cc punch. I would then put them in drop pods over rhinos, I do this because you can instantly have half of you units (that are in drop pods at least) where you want them first turn.

 

And for you're HQ choice, it really depends on the rest of your army. If you're going simple, and you have a long fangs pack, then a rune priest with Jaws of the Word Wolf and Living lightning is a great choice, and if the unit he is attached to gets into an assualt he can definitely hold his own, as can any of our HQ s.

[HERO]

Murderous Hurricane is the #1 spell you should take. You turn every assault-heavy unit into fodder. And believe it or not.. 3D6 S3 hits generates quite a bit of wounds on units like Gaunts, Orks or even MEQ.

[LorgarXVII17]

Swiftclaws can cause the enemy a lot of pain if you give them the right gear. The Wolf guard terminators are also pretty good and the models look fantastic.

[Wildfire]

Murderous Hurricane is the #1 spell you should take. You turn every assault-heavy unit into fodder. And believe it or not.. 3D6 S3 hits generates quite a bit of wounds on units like Gaunts, Orks or even MEQ.

 

That really depends on the meta. With the FAQ confirmation that Jaws of the World Wolf can be used to snipe, I think a Rune Priest on a bike with Jaws can be awesome in a strong CC list, by pulling out all the power weapon upgrades from an opposing squad. Picture this: Rune Priest on a bike, Swiftclaws x3 w/flamer, power weapon/fist, attack bike. Jaws snipes out an Ork powerclaw/marine powerfist/ect. You charge. Now you're getting wounded on 5 or 6s and there's nothing left that can ignore armor. You've just tarpitted a large squad pretty much forever.

 

I agree Living Lightning is pretty much a must, it's great against transports (and mech is where it's at in 5th) and fairly good against MCs.

[Hear da Lamentation]

Some great advice there.

 

My add would be to have at least 1 plasma cannon on your LF (I max mine out, so have 5 LF, 1 squad leader and a WG basic for the extra wound.) Every game I have played - the PC has made a BIG difference. One good hit with that baby and you can take out a unit of 5 terminators with one shot. Mine LF are usually 1PC, 3ML, 1LC.

 

Good hunting ....

[HERO]

It's also important you try to match the range of the weapons you plan on taking with the Long Fangs so you can combine fire when needed.

 

My anti-infantry setup is 3x HB and 2x PC; this gives me 36" range and great infantry coverage for a bargain price. Or else I would just go with 5x ML.