Help Me Out

[Boot Leather]

Ok so a little background, I started playing 40k a couple years ago. When i was first introduced to GW i started as a fantasy player and i can still proudly say that i am. Now on to the problem, as im sure anyone who plays fantasy can tell you 40k differs in that HQ, unlike heros and lords dont get loaded up on as much stuff as possible. In fact it is frowned upon and considered newbish if one does so. That being the case I have run into difficulties with this. Another issue that crops up is how to set up a "good" army list. I would like to be able to play in local tournaments some day and though it really doesnt matter if i win or lose, as the prize system is a raffle, I would like to say that I won at least one match. Now heres the problem I know how to outfit and use a fantasy army to some success but in terms of 40k i have no freaking clue. I started with Dark Angels and learned the hard way that they are not a new player friendly list. So i continued painting them in DA colors but started using the "generic" space marine list. Now heres where those reading this hopefully come in. I need help creating a space marine list that can in theory face down most foes, while still being easy and fun to use and play against. So is there any advice to offer or should I give up and go home?

 

Here is a list of the stuff I have:

 

-1 captain or chapter master

-1 command squad

-2 10 man squads of space marines

-1 devestator squad

-1 terminator squad (power fists, storm bolters)

-1 scout squad

-1 ironclad dread

-1 dread

-3 landspeeders (1 is a typhoon)

-9 bikers

-1 rhino

-1 vindicator

-2 predator (1 anti-infantry 1 anti-tank)

-1 land raider crusader

 

please note that while this is what i currently have, I am willing to buy more. Also my birthday is less then a monthy away and I will be recieving money and warhammer stuff that will probably add to this collection so anything you guys think I might need just say so and it will go on the list.

 

-Boot Leather

 

(ps if you guys can help me I would like the ideas to be "non-cheesey" thanks)

(pss if this isnt the rght place for this thread I apologize to the mods)

[LorgarXVII17]

You seem to have quite a variety of units available to you, so its not that your army "sucks" its just you havent found the right combination with them yet. I dont use loyalist marines much, so I couldnt tell you. Ive also never played as Dark Angels. Wolves for me.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

In my opinion you can't make an army that is wholly competitive and also fun... But I have been wrong.

 

For fun you might include squads or units that are next to useless im game terms, compared to others, but they wouldn't have a place in a competitive army.

 

Whats more important: Fun? Fluff? Winning?

[jugglingfool]

It all depends on how you view and play Marines. Some people like the more elite units, like Terminators and Sternguard. I find that those don't work for me. I favor more Marines. Yes lots of tactical squads and marines on bikes and marines with jump packs. Just more of them. Plasma and melta to taste but more marines. Tanks if you have loaded out on all your other marine choices, but in the end more marines.

 

Looking at your list you only have 2 tac squads, you need more. Like 4 or 5 total. Again more marines. You could also consider an Assault Squad, flying marines but again more marines. The bikes are good fast and survivable marines. Scouts are not marines. I take them but they just are not marines and I would most often rather spend the points on, you guessed it, MORE MARINES!!!

 

But as I say your mileage may vary. I like more marines. Some people favor less is more philosophy. But my dice don't do me any favors so I play with many redundant units. Kill one and I have another.

[Newtoncain]

Ok so a little background, I started playing 40k a couple years ago. When i was first introduced to GW i started as a fantasy player and i can still proudly say that i am. Now on to the problem, as im sure anyone who plays fantasy can tell you 40k differs in that HQ, unlike heros and lords dont get loaded up on as much stuff as possible. In fact it is frowned upon and considered newbish if one does so. That being the case I have run into difficulties with this. Another issue that crops up is how to set up a "good" army list. I would like to be able to play in local tournaments some day and though it really doesnt matter if i win or lose, as the prize system is a raffle, I would like to say that I won at least one match. Now heres the problem I know how to outfit and use a fantasy army to some success but in terms of 40k i have no freaking clue. I started with Dark Angels and learned the hard way that they are not a new player friendly list. So i continued painting them in DA colors but started using the "generic" space marine list. Now heres where those reading this hopefully come in. I need help creating a space marine list that can in theory face down most foes, while still being easy and fun to use and play against. So is there any advice to offer or should I give up and go home?

 

Here is a list of the stuff I have:

 

-1 captain or chapter master

-1 command squad

-2 10 man squads of space marines

-1 devestator squad

-1 terminator squad (power fists, storm bolters)

-1 scout squad5 or 10 man, CC or Sniper, HB/ML???

-1 ironclad dread

-1 dread

-3 landspeeders (1 is a typhoon)

-9 bikers

-1 rhino

-1 vindicator

-2 predator (1 anti-infantry 1 anti-tank)

-1 land raider crusader

 

please note that while this is what i currently have, I am willing to buy more. Also my birthday is less then a monthy away and I will be recieving money and warhammer stuff that will probably add to this collection so anything you guys think I might need just say so and it will go on the list.

 

-Boot Leather

 

(ps if you guys can help me I would like the ideas to be "non-cheesey" thanks)

(pss if this isnt the rght place for this thread I apologize to the mods)

Captain in a cmd squad is good if loaded out correctly (CC or Shooty)

2 10 man squads of space marines- i like 3-5 squads myself, but Sgt gets a PW or PF/Combi weapon. So say you have 3 squads: i'd run one F/ML/Sgt has PF/Combi melta

#2 would be PG/LC Sgt has PF/Combi flamer

#3 would be MG/PC/ Sgt has only PW

-1 devestator squad-Use these to mix and match heavy weapons in your tac squads. I just don't use Devs by them selves.

-1 terminator squad (power fists, storm bolters)-CC terms are better, but at least get a bit CML or AssCan, also use a spare chain sword to make 1 chain fist

-1 scout squad-I either go CCW for flank, Sgt has PW and Combi weapon, MBs or go Snipers w/ ML or HB , add camo and sit in area terrain

-1 ironclad dread- i like Melta/HF combo in a drop pod.

-1 dread-Depends on what kind of load out you want? Range = TLLC and ML, utility = pC and DCCW/HF, Anti tank = MM and DCCW/HF

-3 landspeeders (1 is a typhoon)- Don't have any of these, but 3 1 unit fast choices with MM on them and hurt armor

-9 bikers-I only use scout bikes, so no idea

-1 rhino- Get 1 for each 10 man tac squad (buy the razor kit so you can mix and match)

-1 vindicator- These are great, just over C note in points for the first target your opponent will shoot at. Works best in pairs

-2 predator (1 anti-infantry 1 anti-tank)-I use TLLC + HB sponce for combi usage. but you can't go wrong with AC/HB/SB for killing hoards

-1 land raider crusader- I prefer the LR or LRR, put a MM on it for sure and maybe Chronus for his BS+ ignoir some results.

 

Best of luck

[Phalanx13]

Get more Tactical Squads. Cant go wrong with more tac marines.

[Boot Leather]

ok well to me having fun is important but in terms of tourrneies i would rather win. (does that make me sound shallow?) anyway in terms of what I will be getting I will be getting a CC terminator squad for my land raider crusader. I guess what i mean when i say I want to have fun is I want to have a list that is really cheezy. I want a list that is still good but one that people will want to play against not one that will always win. (not that this is a bad thing but eventually nobody wants to play against you)

Anyway one thing I would like to ask is how should I outfit my command squad? How should i outfit my captain or chapter master? these are questions I always ask. any sort of advice that can be given is great. for instance how should my tac squads be setup: should I bring a flamer? A rocket launcher? both? what about my dreads? what weapons should I bring on them? what about tanks which ones should I take? should I take any? all these questions tumble around my vacant mind and answers are what I need so can any of you help me out?

[KhorneHunter57x]

ok well to me having fun is important but in terms of tourrneies i would rather win. (does that make me sound shallow?)

I don't think so. Just as long as you can keep the border between "fun with friends" lists and "victory through total eradication of the opponent's army and tactics" lists seperate.

Anyway one thing I would like to ask is how should I outfit my command squad? How should i outfit my captain or chapter master?

For a Captain, most people prefer the Artificer Armor/Relic Blade/Storm Shield combination. I like it too, and with this your Captain is truly a force to be reckoned with.

for instance how should my tac squads be setup: should I bring a flamer? A rocket launcher? both? what about my dreads? what weapons should I bring on them? what about tanks which ones should I take? should I take any?

For Tactical Squads, I would get a third one and (funds permitting) Rhinos for squads 2 and 3. Try using all 3 squads with a Flamer and a Missile Launcher in a Rhino. (note: don't buy the Rhino kit, buy the Razorback kit and don't glue the hatch on so you can swap between them).

 

The Dreadnoughts: I think the Ironclad is best with Assault Launchers, Seismic Hammer, Dread CCW, and 2 Heavy Flamers. It can roast infantry and punch the bigger stuff. For the regular Dreadnought, I would use it with an Assault Cannon (a multi-melta works too), Heavy Flamer, and Dreadnought CCW. Walk them up as a pair.

 

As for Tanks, I would take them in the following order as points allow:

Vindicator: Can hurt anything, and does quite a bit of damage to infantry, tanks, and monsterous creatures.

Anti-Infantry Predator: Cheap, and can put out quite a bit of firepower.

Land Raider Crusader: Tough to kill, can carry almost anything, has a lot of anti-infantry firepower. Shreds small squads, and puts a big dent in larger squads. A bit too expensive for small games. My favorite tank in 40k.

Anti-Tank Predator: A bit expensive, but useful in larger games. You might want to use this instead of the anti-infantry Predator if you are also taking the Crusader.

 

Here is a sample "core" that you can use as an example:

Captain with Artificer, Relic Blade, Storm Shield

3 10-man Tactical Squads with Flamer, Missile Launcher, Rhino APC.

Dreadnought with Assault Cannon (or Multi-Melta) and Dreadnought CCW with built-in Heavy Flamer

Ironclad Dreadnought with Assault Launchers, Seismic Hammer with built-in Heavy Flamer and Dreadnought CCW with built-in Heavy Flamer.

 

This is a bit over 1,000 points and it has enough Troops to take objectives. I would walk up the Dreadnoughts behind the Rhinos. In Objective missions you will want to Combat Squad the Tactical Squads, leaving the Flamers in the Rhinos and the Missile Launchers on foot. The Captain will ride with one of the Tacticals.

For Kill Points, you will want to keep the Tactical squads as 10-man squads, and walk the Captain behind the Dreadnoughts.

Try a similar list for a couple friendly games and see how it works for you.

 

Just a few thoughts.

[Koremu]

I second what others have said about Rhinos and Razorbacks. It's worth remembering that Whirlwinds also allow you to keep the top unglued to swap between Rhino and Whirlie, just like Razorbacks B)

 

I'd also make a Biker Captain, bulk that bike squad out to have an attack bike, and have Bikers available as Troops.

[Giga]

Okay, here's what I came up with;

1750 pts

 

HQ:

Captain - 160 pts

- relic blade

- artificer armor

- storm shield

 

Command Squad - 225 pts

- plasmagun x3

- powerfist

- razorback

 

TROOPS:

Tactical Squad (10 men) - 240 pts

- power fist

- flamer

- missile launcher

- combiflamer

- rhino

 

Tactical Squad (10 men) - 235 pts

- power fist

- flamer

- plasma cannon

- rhino

 

ELITES:

Terminators (5 men) - 230 pts

- cyclone missile launcher

 

FAST ATTACK:

Land Speeder Squadron (2 speeders) - 140 pts

- multimeltas & heavy flamers

 

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Land Raider Crusader - 275 pts

- multimelta

- extra armor

 

Predator - 120 pts

- lascannon sponsors & autocannon turret

 

Vindicator - 125 pts

- siege shield

The list got lots of dakka, a few missile launchers, lascannons, and 3 meltas. You got some plasmas for general purpose, a close combat captain, a vindicator for target saturation & anti-heavy infantry, an anti-infantry tac squad, and two highly mobile heavy flamers.

 

It's an okay list. It ain't gonna win you tournaments, but I'm positive nobody is gonna be crying cheese at you, and if you're any good you'll be more then capable to win casual games with it. ^_^

[Boot Leather]

Thanks for the responses guys I will definatly try that list out. funds permmiting I will also be buying some more rhinos/ razorbacks. like you said I wont glue the tops on so I can switch back and forth. But a couple questions come to mind: 1 razorbacks only hold 6 people so what would I have ride in there? second what weapons should my razors use bolters or lascannon? anyway thanks for the quick responses.

[Koremu]

Razorbacks usually carry Command Squads or small Veteran units (most frequently Sternguard) and ICs. Librarian + 5 Sternies is one of my favourites.

 

They are also purchased for some Squads where you either plan to fight dismounted (typical for Devastators) or plan to always Combat Squad (Tacticals).

 

I've armed them with all of the weapon options, but you should be aware that the bigger the gun you have on it, the more tempting a target it becomes. I would sincerely suggest not upgrading from Heavy Bolters unless you have other vehicles (especially Land Speeders) as bullet magnets.

[Grey Mage]

Here is a list of the stuff I have:

 

-1 captain or chapter master

-1 command squad

-2 10 man squads of space marines

-1 devestator squad

-1 terminator squad (power fists, storm bolters)

-1 scout squad

-1 ironclad dread

-1 dread

-3 landspeeders (1 is a typhoon)

-9 bikers

-1 rhino

-1 vindicator

-2 predator (1 anti-infantry 1 anti-tank)

-1 land raider crusader

 

please note that while this is what i currently have, I am willing to buy more. Also my birthday is less then a monthy away and I will be recieving money and warhammer stuff that will probably add to this collection so anything you guys think I might need just say so and it will go on the list.

Well, first on the list of things you should buy- another Bike to convert into a captain, and if one of those 9 bikers isnt an attack bike you could convert one of them, or get an attack bike.

 

Anoter Rhino wouldnt hurt at all either. Assuming you buy both of those heres 1500pt list that could be made that is both effective, relatively fluffy, and IMHO fun.

 

Captain- Relic Blade, Bike- 165pts.

 

10 Tacticals- MG, ML, PF, Rhino- 235pts.

10 Tacticals- PG, LC, PW, Rhino- 240pts.

5 Scouts- 5xSniper Rifles- 75pts.

8 Bikers+Attack Bike- 2x MG, MM, PF- 310pts.

 

Vindicator- Dozer Blade- 120pts.

Predator Destructor- HB Sponsons- 85pts.

 

2xLandspeeder- 1xTyphoon- 140pts.

 

Dreadnaught- AC+EA- 130pts.

 

1500pts, 11 KPs, 4 scoring units.

 

The Landspeeders, Bikers, and MG Tacticals are an agressive force backed up by the slightly slower vindicator and a nice gunline from the Dread, Scouts, PG Tacticals, and the Dakkapredator. Youve got plenty of speed, the flexability to combat squad those bikes into 2 units in objective games if you like, and a good range of AT and AI firepower.

 

Questions?