Intelligence on the Leader Beast

[SpecialIssue]

Codex Tyranids, under the Hive Tyrant entry, gives him the choice of 3 special rules. One of these is 'Hive Commander'. In exact words: 'If the Hive Tyrant has the Hive Commander upgrade', 'whilst the Hive Tyrant is alive you add +1 to your reserve rolls.'

 

So, if a Hive Tyrant is in reserve, then does that mean that it is still alive? (please say no!)

 

Worried about my opponents mycetic spore MC/Zoe army that includes Lictors as well, allowing him to potentially flood me from Turn 2 with spore pods. <_<

[Kephri]

I do believe that the ability will work while the Tyrant is in reserve, as it states "alive" and not "on the table" or something similar.

 

The Lictors however MUST start in reserve. Their ability that adds to reserve rolls states that they must be on table at the beginning of the turn. So the earliest that the "Lictor bonus" will appear is turn 3.

[Gaz1858]

If it is worded as you say then i would agree with Kephri.

 

Unlucky mate!

[Legatus]

The Lictor's ability will only evercome into play during turn three, because it is not possible for a Lictor to be on the table at the beginning of the movement phase before that (it is the requirement for his ability to work, and he can only appear from turn 2, meaning his ability will start working earliest at turn 3). So with the Lictor appearing at turn 2, his ability will be in effect at turn 3, making your reserves appear on a roll of 2+ instead of the regular 3+. After turn 3, any reserves will come in at a roll of 2+ anyway.

 

If the army also includes a Hive Tyrant with the appropriate ability (in this case he does not even have to be on the table), then your units will appear at a roll of 2+ during turn 3 anyway, so the Lictor's ability would be redundant altogether.

[Hellios]

Codex Tyranids, under the Hive Tyrant entry, gives him the choice of 3 special rules. One of these is 'Hive Commander'. In exact words: 'If the Hive Tyrant has the Hive Commander upgrade', 'whilst the Hive Tyrant is alive you add +1 to your reserve rolls.'

 

So, if a Hive Tyrant is in reserve, then does that mean that it is still alive? (please say no!)

 

Worried about my opponents mycetic spore MC/Zoe army that includes Lictors as well, allowing him to potentially flood me from Turn 2 with spore pods. :cuss

 

I would read this as... If the Hive Tyrant has one or more wound remaining and hasn't been removed from play you will benefit from this ability even if it is not on the board. Another question... will this stack?

[gil galed]

I don't see why it wouldn't stack ;)

[ShinyRhino]

Codex Tyranids, under the Hive Tyrant entry, gives him the choice of 3 special rules. One of these is 'Hive Commander'. In exact words: 'If the Hive Tyrant has the Hive Commander upgrade', 'whilst the Hive Tyrant is alive you add +1 to your reserve rolls.'

 

So, if a Hive Tyrant is in reserve, then does that mean that it is still alive? (please say no!)

 

Worried about my opponents mycetic spore MC/Zoe army that includes Lictors as well, allowing him to potentially flood me from Turn 2 with spore pods. ;)

 

I would read this as... If the Hive Tyrant has one or more wound remaining and hasn't been removed from play you will benefit from this ability even if it is not on the board. Another question... will this stack?

 

There is precedent for similar rules being able to be used while in reserve, but not stacking.

Multiple IG Astropaths do not allow multiple bonuses or penalties to reserve rolls, so I doubt two Tyrants with Hive Commander would stack, either.

[Ntin]

They would stack but you would only benefit if the Lictor arrived on turn 2.

 

Turn:

1: NA

2: 4+

3: 3+

4: 2+

5: Auto

 

Hive Tyrant

Turn:

1: NA

2: 3+

3: 2+

4: Auto

5: Auto

 

Hive Tyrant and Lictor

Turn:

1: NA

2: 3+

3: Auto

4: Auto

5: Auto

[Legatus]

Hm, in the previous edition, from turn 4 on reserves would appear on 2+ each turn, so I did not interprete the turn 5 "automatic" from the current rulebook reserve rules as being the natural improved progression from 2+. I would have interpreted it so that if the unit was arriving on a 2+ anyway, a further +1 bonus would not improve that any further (as 1 is allways a fail).

[gil galed]

Hm, in the previous edition, from turn 4 on reserves would appear on 2+ each turn, so I did not interprete the turn 5 "automatic" from the current rulebook reserve rules as being the natural improved progression from 2+. I would have interpreted it so that if the unit was arriving on a 2+ anyway, a further +1 bonus would not improve that any further (as 1 is allways a fail).

 

this is true, one is always a fail (or a pass for leadership), I think it would be

 

 

Hive Tyrant and Lictor

Turn:

1: NA

2: 3+

3: 2+

4: 2+

5: Auto

[Ntin]

Hm, in the previous edition, from turn 4 on reserves would appear on 2+ each turn, so I did not interprete the turn 5 "automatic" from the current rulebook reserve rules as being the natural improved progression from 2+. I would have interpreted it so that if the unit was arriving on a 2+ anyway, a further +1 bonus would not improve that any further (as 1 is allways a fail).

 

A roll of 1 does not always mean a failed roll though. A 1+ is always a success for attribute tests for example. Following the progression of the Reserve Table, 2+ would not repeat as there is something past 2+. The next step would be to go to “automatic” and since there is nothing past “automatic” it would then repeat.

[Legatus]

What's an atribute test? For shooting, a to-hit roll of 1 allways misses. A to-wound roll of 1 allways fails to wound. For characteristics tests (where you have to roll low), a 6 allways fails.

 

Following the progression of the Reserve Table, 2+ would not repeat as there is something past 2+. The next step would be to go to “automatic” and since there is nothing past “automatic” it would then repeat.

But "automatic" is not the logical next step after 2+. The rule sspecifically declare that you roll each turn untill turn 5 (which is potentially the last played turn of the game), when all reserves that are left will automatically come into play.

 

For example, if your side was under a negative modifier for reserve rolls (such as when fightin Imperial Guard that have a Master of the Fleet) the progression would now be:

 

Turn:

1: NA

2: 5+

3: 4+

4: 3+

5: Auto (!)

 

The units would still automatically appear at turn 5, because the rules specifically explain that they automatically come on at turn 5. It is not because it is the logical progression from the previous turn. The "automatic" is not reduced to "2+" by the negative modifier. Similarly a "2+" could not be improved any further as a required roll and would not be upgraded to "automatic".

[Ntin]

What's an atribute test? For shooting, a to-hit roll of 1 allways misses. A to-wound roll of 1 allways fails to wound. For characteristics tests (where you have to roll low), a 6 allways fails.

 

Following the progression of the Reserve Table, 2+ would not repeat as there is something past 2+. The next step would be to go to “automatic” and since there is nothing past “automatic” it would then repeat.

But "automatic" is not the logical next step after 2+. The rule sspecifically declare that you roll each turn untill turn 5 (which is potentially the last played turn of the game), when all reserves that are left will automatically come into play.

 

For example, if your side was under a negative modifier for reserve rolls (such as when fightin Imperial Guard that have a Master of the Fleet) the progression would now be:

 

Turn:

1: NA

2: 5+

3: 4+

4: 3+

5: Auto (!)

 

The units would still automatically appear at turn 5, because the rules specifically explain that they automatically come on at turn 5. It is not because it is the logical progression from the previous turn. The "automatic" is not reduced to "2+" by the negative modifier. Similarly a "2+" could not be improved any further as a required roll and would not be upgraded to "automatic".

 

Codex supersedes the rulebook. You and gil galed are correct though my Tyranid friend said it modifies the Reserve Table but the codex states that the “Hive Commander” and “Pheromone Trail” special rules modify the die roll for the Reserve Table.

[SpecialIssue]

Ah well, at least the Lictor bonus can only come in on turn 3... My tactic to counter his list is a flood of krak missiles and Rhinos- 3 typhoons, 3 tac squads with MLs and 6 man dev with MLs :). Hopefully his force will come in piecemeal and as soon as they pop outta the ground or their pods- potentially 13 krak missiles to the face. (plus Sternies!) Show them nids that no one can do a Deep Strike like SMs!

[Ntin]

Honestly the Tyranid player is going to waste a good portion of their points on this set up and only one brood can exit a Trygon tunnel a turn.

[Wildfire]

There is precedent for similar rules being able to be used while in reserve, but not stacking.

Multiple IG Astropaths do not allow multiple bonuses or penalties to reserve rolls, so I doubt two Tyrants with Hive Commander would stack, either.

 

Actually, there is precedent. Eldar Autarch reserve bonuses stack, per the Eldar FAQ.