Sisters of Battle Falling to Chaos?

[The Nephilim]

My recommendation is if you want to do it, go for it! There is precedent for fallen Sister(s), I'd advise figuring out the overall fluff for your particular Chaos warband and work them in nicely. If you have a good plausible story most folks will say "Right on, sweet looking models, you wanna set up terrain or roll for it?" and not worry about it. :)

Exactly.

[Chengar Qordath]

My recommendation is if you want to do it, go for it! There is precedent for fallen Sister(s), I'd advise figuring out the overall fluff for your particular Chaos warband and work them in nicely. If you have a good plausible story most folks will say "Right on, sweet looking models, you wanna set up terrain or roll for it?" and not worry about it. :)

Very true; I've never refused to play against a nice-looking army even if I disagree with the player on the question of official canon fluff in regards to whether or not that army should exist in the 40k universe. For a casual pickup tabletop game official fluff is pretty much irrelevant anyway.

[andrewm9]

The only other "recorded" instance I am aware of is the Daemonifuge Graphic Novel published by Black Library. I use quotes becuase the sisters involved were warped and misguided by a Keeper of Secrets. The Keeper caused them to fight one another and collected their souls when they died. These girsl were not battle sisters however. They were a secretive minor order of the Dialogous variety I beieve as they were studying the secrets of chaos. They souls combined their faith and were able to stymie the Keeper and let Ephrael Stern dispatch the Keeper back to the warp. I'll point out that these Sisters did not start worshipping Chaos in any way but were as a previous poster suggested misled by it. Daemonifue is a bit whacky though in that the Sisters have Drop Pods for their Rhinos and Immolators which we have never seen before or since in anything. This is one of the many reasons why Melissia considers Daemonifuge suspect. I think its a cool story however.

[The Nephilim]

The only other "recorded" instance I am aware of is the Daemonifuge Graphic Novel published by Black Library. I use quotes becuase the sisters involved were warped and misguided by a Keeper of Secrets. The Keeper caused them to fight one another and collected their souls when they died. These girsl were not battle sisters however. They were a secretive minor order of the Dialogous variety I beieve as they were studying the secrets of chaos. They souls combined their faith and were able to stymie the Keeper and let Ephrael Stern dispatch the Keeper back to the warp. I'll point out that these Sisters did not start worshipping Chaos in any way but were as a previous poster suggested misled by it. Daemonifue is a bit whacky though in that the Sisters have Drop Pods for their Rhinos and Immolators which we have never seen before or since in anything. This is one of the many reasons why Melissia considers Daemonifuge suspect. I think its a cool story however.

You obviously didn't read my post. There are multiple "recorded" instances that you chose to ignore.

[andrewm9]

You obviously didn't read my post. There are multiple "recorded" instances that you chose to ignore.

 

I read all of your posts in the topic, but unless I am utter failure with reading comprehension you did not identify any specific instances of these falls. I discussed Daemonifuge which is BL material. I'm not aware of sisters falling in any other work. Admittedly I haven't read all BL material. Don't get me wrong I'm not suggesting that it can't happen becuase at the end of the day Sisters are still human.

[The Nephilim]

You obviously didn't read my post. There are multiple "recorded" instances that you chose to ignore.

 

I read all of your posts in the topic, but unless I am utter failure with reading comprehension you did not identify any specific instances of these falls. I discussed Daemonifuge which is BL material. I'm not aware of sisters falling in any other work. Admittedly I haven't read all BL material. Don't get me wrong I'm not suggesting that it can't happen becuase at the end of the day Sisters are still human.

 

The following statement comes from the Codex: Sisters of Battle 2nd edition: "A sign of the Sisters strength is the fact that in their entire history only a single sister, Miriael Sabathiel, has fallen to the lure of Chaos. How Miriael fell is unknown, only that she was turned from the Emperor's light to Slaanesh worship, and now serves as one of the prince of chaos' greatest warriors."

 

However this is clearly contradicted by the Graphic novel Daemonifuge in which a Sister was seduced by a Navigator (who had been corrupted by a daemonic servant of Slaanesh) and several Sisters were completely corrupted by a Keeper of Secrets, a greater Daemon of Slaanesh. The novel "Cain's Last Stand", It is also stated that an entire Mission of Sisters were seen engaging Imperial forces with Chaos cultists, Cain is also confronted by two sisters under Daemon influence.

 

From this, it would seem that fallen SOBs is possible.

 

It seems to me that there are multiple sources here that are describing sisters falling. If you want it, go with it, but make sure its damn solid fluff your doing with and not poorly written smut.

Here's the list:

Demonifuge (2005), which we've both mentioned. - Black Library

The Invitation by Dan Abnett, in Tales From the Dark Millennium (2006) - Black Library (wasn't mentioned in an above post, my fault.)

Cain's Last Stand (2008) - Black Library

 

**Edit**

Trying to sound less pretentious/arrogant.

[andrewm9]

Here's the list:

Demonifuge (2005), which we've both mentioned. - Black Library

The Invitation by Dan Abnett, in Tales From the Dark Millennium (2006) - Black Library (wasn't mentioned in an above post, my fault.)

Cain's Last Stand (2008) - Black Library

 

**Edit**

Trying to sound less pretentious/arrogant.

 

Cool, I've never even heard of The Invitation. Thanks for the heads up. I have to say I might have come across as a little confrontational in my post as well. if so I apologize. The Cain series is one of the sets I've been thinking about reading. Now I will definitely have to check it out. I knew there was mention a bad ass celestian in the series but never heard anything of fallen sisters.

[The Nephilim]

Here's the list:

Demonifuge (2005), which we've both mentioned. - Black Library

The Invitation by Dan Abnett, in Tales From the Dark Millennium (2006) - Black Library (wasn't mentioned in an above post, my fault.)

Cain's Last Stand (2008) - Black Library

 

**Edit**

Trying to sound less pretentious/arrogant.

 

Cool, I've never even heard of The Invitation. Thanks for the heads up. I have to say I might have come across as a little confrontational in my post as well. if so I apologize. The Cain series is one of the sets I've been thinking about reading. Now I will definitely have to check it out. I knew there was mention a bad ass celestian in the series but never heard anything of fallen sisters.

No worries. It's easy to get angry (suffer from nerdrage, as my girlfriend calls it) over this stuff. Then add on the impersonal internet and things can deteriorate even faster.

[Captain Hajime]

I miss Melissa she would have had all the facts.

[Eddie Orlock]

I miss Melissa, she would have had all the facts.

Disruptive as she was, I'll admit that she was mildly amusing to have around. As a limited issue wonk, you could pretty much guarantee an aggravated response with a few key words, but at least you'd gain another perspective.

[Zealadin]

It seems to me that there are multiple sources here that are describing sisters falling. If you want it, go with it, but make sure its damn solid fluff your doing with and not poorly written smut.

Here's the list:

Demonifuge (2005), which we've both mentioned. - Black Library

The Invitation by Dan Abnett, in Tales From the Dark Millennium (2006) - Black Library (wasn't mentioned in an above post, my fault.)

Cain's Last Stand (2008) - Black Library

 

**Edit**

Trying to sound less pretentious/arrogant.

 

As stated previously the BL novels often have little connection to the more canon fluff apart from a similarity of names. They certainly always appeal to those who enjoy a good action novel, but the writing skills are generally mediocre and the sign of a bad author is having to invent their own lore to make things interesting instead of being able to stay within the confines of that already in place and expanding from there.

Obviously the whole concept of falling to chaos for a WH/DH player is a matter of pride, in a GK's case they don't, while SoB aren't protected by quite the same bullet proof fluff.

From most other armies perspective its different, for IG its practically expected, while the Chaos armies just like to think that everyone falls to chaos.

As to making up your own fluff, its not hard, and there is always precedent for it, if your willing to read between the lines.

[The Nephilim]

As stated previously the BL novels often have little connection to the more canon fluff apart from a similarity of names. They certainly always appeal to those who enjoy a good action novel, but the writing skills are generally mediocre and the sign of a bad author is having to invent their own lore to make things interesting instead of being able to stay within the confines of that already in place and expanding from there.

Obviously the whole concept of falling to chaos for a WH/DH player is a matter of pride, in a GK's case they don't, while SoB aren't protected by quite the same bullet proof fluff.

From most other armies perspective its different, for IG its practically expected, while the Chaos armies just like to think that everyone falls to chaos.

As to making up your own fluff, its not hard, and there is always precedent for it, if your willing to read between the lines.

Right... because the codices are written so well. Allow me to direct your attention to the Dark Angels, Eldar and Chaos codices. I'm sorry, but Black Library produces more literary works than Games-Workshop. You purists can keep insisting they're not canon, but when you want to learn more about a specific faction, where do your turn outside of a codex? Oh. That's right. A Black Library novel.

[Eddie Orlock]

You purists can keep insisting they're not canon, but when you want to learn more about a specific faction, where do your turn outside of a codex? Oh. That's right. A Black Library novel.

That's a negative there sir. Where do I turn, you might ask? I turn to older codices, white dwarf articles, specialist games, and other studio publications. Lately I've been debating the validity of Dark Heresy materials. From what I've read, I don't recall many contradictions. There've been a couple of arguable points, rogue trader ship classes come to mind, but this can be excused as only the truly great having any impact on the significant naval engagements modelled in BFG.

 

The one source I never turn to? The Black Library.

[Chengar Qordath]

Cain's Last Stand (2008) - Black Library

The Sisters in that book were not fallen, but under the domination of an Alpha-plus psyker. IIRC, when a blank got close enough to some of them to nullify the psyker's powers and break his mind control the sisters started screaming in horror at everything they had been forced to do, and immediately killed themselves. Being mind-controlled is not the same as falling to Chaos.

[Grand Master Tyrak]

I'm sorry, but Black Library produces more literary works than Games-Workshop.

 

Quality not quantity. For one thing, Codicies maintain an internal consistency, something BL have not yet managed. Even Forgeworld have managed to maintain an internal consistency, and you see far less problems with them being accepted as authoritative.

 

You purists can keep insisting they're not canon, but when you want to learn more about a specific faction, where do your turn outside of a codex?

 

Of course, you're right! I'd turn to a source with no internal consistency, where adherence to the fluff is not enforced at all, where some of the authors don't seem to trouble to read the codicies before trying to expand on them, and where the entire collection only makes sense if it's all set in the warp, allowing it to be inherently contradictory and coherent at the same time. :lol:

[Sempronius]

Right... because the codices are written so well. Allow me to direct your attention to the Dark Angels, Eldar and Chaos codices. I'm sorry, but Black Library produces more literary works than Games-Workshop. You purists can keep insisting they're not canon, but when you want to learn more about a specific faction, where do your turn outside of a codex? Oh. That's right. A Black Library novel.

 

If James Swallow's abominations were considered cannon I would have to kill myself! Anyone who wants to make fallen sisters, I say go for it! If Space Marines, who go through years of psycho-conditioning can fall to chaos, of course a Sister can! But for the love of the God-Emperor, please don't go with Slaanesh! Try Tzeentch, or even Khorne! The Sisters give us gamers a bad enough name already without Slaaneshi alignment.

[Magnus Thane]

Just use the models and/or rules to reflect a similar Order. But one that i Chaos orientated/ corrupt and worships Chaos. You can easily link/combine them with a Chapter or Warband of Chaos Space Marines serving the same deity.

[GodwynDi]

Cain's Last Stand (2008) - Black Library

The Sisters in that book were not fallen, but under the domination of an Alpha-plus psyker. IIRC, when a blank got close enough to some of them to nullify the psyker's powers and break his mind control the sisters started screaming in horror at everything they had been forced to do, and immediately killed themselves. Being mind-controlled is not the same as falling to Chaos.

 

And in Demonifuge? the sisters were misled, not fallen to chaos. In fact, in death they served The Emperor truly and made a difference in the fight against the daemon. That is not fallen to chaos worship, which is the relevant issue, and the contentious point. People do indeed often make mistakes, sometimes do the wrong things, and for the wrong reasons. Even still, you will find more Bibles in a prison than Satanists.

 

Seriously, Tzeentch's plans are often so convoluted and far spanning it is probably impossible for Anyone to truly say they have not served Chaos at some point.

 

The third novel mentioned I am not familiar with, but I fully intend to acquire it now. And then of course manipulate so they are not, of course, actually fallen.

[The Nephilim]

I love that you guys fight this so hard. Space Marines can fall. Inquisitors can fall. Hell, even the higher members of the Ecclesiarchy can fall.

 

But can a sister? Oh ;)-ing no.

 

Well, why not? They go under similar indoctrination procedures as an Space Marine, probably more lax since the High Lords of Terra don't want Heresy 2.0. Quoting a 2nd Edition codex isn't going to get you very far. It's archaic fluff that wasn't even addressed in the the current WH codex. Even the Witch Hunter's codex goes over fighting the Ecclesiarchy on page 39.

[Eddie Orlock]

I love that you guys fight this so hard.

We could ask you the same thing.

 

Ultimately, it comes down to a matter of opinion. We appear to reject your sources as easily as you reject ours. We could type 'til our fingers are raw, but all it will achieve is the indignation of the other camp, no one will change their mind.

 

In the end it comes down to this. Their your damn models, do what ever the heck you need to do to satisfy your fetishes. Just don't expect us to like it.

[Artein]

Sisters can fall. Of course. But it's still close to impossible. In official canon it's stated that only one Sister ever in 5'000 years fell to Chaos. So it's possible.

Whole Order falling to Chaos? Impossible.

 

Sisters are the most devoted. They're more pious than priests.

Note that only Sisters have Acts of Faith.

[Cannon_Fodder_84]

Sisters can fall. Of course. But it's still close to impossible. In official canon it's stated that only one Sister ever in 5'000 years fell to Chaos. So it's possible.

Whole Order falling to Chaos? Impossible.

 

Sisters are the most devoted. They're more pious than priests.

Note that only Sisters have Acts of Faith.

 

 

I'd have to agree. Sisters are the least likely Imperials(except the Knights) to fall to Chaos, and especially large scale, because their faith in the Emperor is so strong and so pure that they can perform minor miracles(Acts of Faith).

 

To the OP, how were you planning on including SoB in your Chaos warband(in terms of actual gaming)? Were you going to just use SoB models which "count as" CSM?

[The_Crippster]

What would you prefer? Nurgle Sisters or Slaaneshi Sisters?

 

 

XD

 

I don't know though, if I were to do it myself I'd have to go for Slaaneshi sisters as Nurgle is the other option for me, although I'd probably just paint/model them like the rest of the Slanneshi part of my army, which is just EC.

[mikemc]

Is it possible that we dont hear more about fallen sister of battle is because 2 seconds after the SOB orders learns she has fallen she is scheduled for termination? The Dark Angels have ways of dealing with their secret. Why wouldnt the SOB have discreet ways of dealing with embarassments. Dealing with these problem sisters quickly would limit the amount of press the fallen would receive. Dont worry about a corrupt sisters soul just kick her ash!

[Magnus Thane]

I miss Melissa, she would have had all the facts.

Disruptive as she was, I'll admit that she was mildly amusing to have around. As a limited issue wonk, you could pretty much guarantee an aggravated response with a few key words, but at least you'd gain another perspective.

 

ROFLMAO! This is one for the records. :lol:

 

This'll be an unending debate though. SoB fans will always say 'no!'. And people on the other side of the fence will always say 'yes!'.

Simply because the fluff as usual is vague, passé or not reaffirmed.

 

GW does that you know... :)