Those Damn Tau.

[ntgcleaner]

So if anyone knows me, you will know that I play against Tau... A lot. You would think I could pull off a clean win (2-7, the two wins were because he made huge mistakes). I have read a ton of tactica, I have tried a lot of different plans, read everything I possibly could to become a better commander, though, I still can't win.

 

Now, granted, I only have ONE LR, which right there will tell anyone that I am doing it wrong... but there HAS to be a better way!

 

Last night, I tried a new list,

 

1 LR with 8 GK and the BC inside,

4 Termies w/ 1 psycannon and the BC had a psycannon as well.

1 rhino with 8 IST's, 2 meltas

2 dreadnaughts with TLLC and ML

 

This was a 1250 list.

 

My plan was to spear head right up the middle to get to him as quickly as possible using my termies as meatshields for my dreads. It was my turn one and guess what. out of three lascannon shots (only 1 from the 'raider), nothing did anything. Now, I'm out in the open, hoping for at least one of his broadsides to die or at LEAST no shooting on his hammerhead... but nothing. His turn one comes around and he rolls EXPLODES on my LR... I already feel like its game over. If I had just one more round with my LR, the game would have been completely turned around. I would have been able to assault him and I would have another round of firing on his tank.

 

I know why I would need a second LR, though, there just HAS to be another way. DSing is good, but for the deployment type, we were playing corners and he would have been packed in there pretty tight, so I decided the risk was too much for my termies.

 

end of game comes around and I killed two gun drones from his pirannah which disembarked... (Question: When his gun drones disembark, only being two of them, what is their leadership? if they become a "Squad" it's supposed to be 7, but if they are by themselves they have N/A ld. Their 'controller' is now accross the board. ) and I killed two broadsides. oh, and I finally wrecked his hammerhead with my immobilized dreadnaught.

 

Was this just bad rolls? has anyone ever written a tactica for DH for the sole purpose of beating Tau? It seems out of any army, Tau is the one made to kill DH. We just aren't fast enough.

 

Here are things I already know:

they suck at HtH (we have to get there first)

I need another LR if I want to be more mobile

 

so please tell me things I don't know about the Tau!

it is getting really frustrating to keep losing. He's a good sport about it and is by no means making me feel bad, but losing too much starts to get to a person.

[ArmouredWing]

Ok, so I'm not a DH player but I do have a lot of experience fighting the greater good and how you fight them can depend very heavily on what he's fielding... so, what's his lists look like?

 

Tau are by no means a 1 trick pony but what a lot of folks don't appreciate is that their biggest strength isn't in their firepower but in their manouverability. LR's may or may not be a possible answer but given how easily they can pop them I'm not so sure it's worth the points sink, especially given the points you're playing with.

 

Looking at your list my first impression is that you've not got enough targets on the table. A LR & 2 dreads is just offering themselves to be targeted by the HH & broadsides way before they get into weapons range. If he's fielding a list to kill tanks then you need to consider putting more bodies on the table. Spamming on IST could be a possibility as they don't necessarily present the best value targets for your opponent to fire at.

 

At the same time you really do need to consider DSing some of your GK's in to draw your opponents attention away from firing on the rest of your force. As you feel you lack the ability to move quick enough an answer is that you need to give yourself time to close ground and if you did DS a couple of units on each of his flanks then it will cause him to split fire which is an essential element to giving yourself a fighting chance.

 

For my money you'd be best off dropping either both dreads, the LR or a LR and a dread and putting those points into more infantry... but without knowing what he likes to field that's just what I'm going on from your list.

[ntgcleaner]

Well, his list is something like this:

Commander w/ 2x body guard crisis suits, 3 gun drones and a shield drone

2x broadside

1x hammerhead

sniper drone squad w/ marker light

4x stealth suits w/ markery light

16x kroot

12 fire warriors (no transport)

Pirannah

 

but what a lot of folks don't appreciate is that their biggest strength isn't in their firepower but in their manouverability.

I agree with you completely on this, He can move quickly. Sure he has a couple big guns, but I can out range a lot of his stuff. In our game, his kroot, fire warriors sniper drones and stealths suits (besides the markerlights) did not do a damn thing. He killed me with his hammer head, broadsides and JSJ from his crisis suit squad. I think his kroot got a couple hits on my regular GK's after the LR blew up, but It wasnt significant.

 

I was thinking of doing a sort of tactic that made his railguns useless, but the problem is, he always has other options. He can use smart missile systems from his broadsides and has that damn pie plate on his hammerhead.

 

At the same time you really do need to consider DSing some of your GK's in to draw your opponents attention away from firing on the rest of your force.

I agree here too, I just hate DSing units sometimes. Even when you don't scatter and land where you want. You are stuck there being shot at in the open until next turn. Assuming you can survive that round. If I were able to assault after a DS, I would be happier with it and of course do it much more often.

 

For my money you'd be best off dropping either both dreads

Yeah, I'm not really a fan of the dreads, though, their main point was to try to pull fire away from my LR. The problem is, eveyone knows the LR is the biggest threat on the table. High priority targets get taken out first.

 

What I am thinking now is lots of ranged fire power. but 30 points for a psycannon and not being able to move (with PAGK) for the distance doesnt seem too worth while to me. I love the termies, and can give them 2 psycannons per group (5 if we do the whole BC + INQ + INQ + TermBC + TERM - or can that only be four?). But my main problem is, how do I take out armor without the big boys (LR or Dreads)?

 

Ill try to come up with an experimental list of pure shooty...

[Justicar Valius]

how do I take out armor without the big boys (LR or Dreads)?

 

5 IST, 2 melta, rhino with extra armour. smokes if you want

[ntgcleaner]

would you suggest two of them Just in case? after they destroy it.. I guess they can tank shock a lot.

[Kyznetsovich]

Are you only playing pure DH? If not then I would like to make the suggestion of bringing in

some codex Space Marine allies and trying this little trick.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SERbjnkNl8...PL&index=29

 

That tactic is pretty useful against vehicles in general, and makes for a relatively cheap unit. (200 odd pts?)

 

Otherwise you could try Drop podding your dreads in multi-melta/heavy flamer range?

[Inquisitor Fox]

but what a lot of folks don't appreciate is that their biggest strength isn't in their firepower but in their manouverability.

I agree with you completely on this, He can move quickly. Sure he has a couple big guns, but I can out range a lot of his stuff. In our game, his kroot, fire warriors sniper drones and stealths suits (besides the markerlights) did not do a damn thing. He killed me with his hammer head, broadsides and JSJ from his crisis suit squad. I think his kroot got a couple hits on my regular GK's after the LR blew up, but It wasnt significant.

Keep in mind maneuverability =/= speed. It's not in distance of movement as much as it is the ability to redeploy assets. You must attempt to close the distance to your superior firezone while passing through his superior firezone with him redeploying to deny shots as much as possible. Really you kinda need to zerg-rush him so to speak, although without a horde you have to hope on armor and deep strikers to try and do this. It's a maneuverability/kill-zone war, but if you can herd him or close the distance once you're close enough you'll do okay.

[Chengar Qordath]

I find that the Callidus assassin is particularly deadly against Tau; she negates their mobility, and with poor Tau cc stats and wargear she can be a major threat to just about any unit except a Kroot horde. I find that the Callidus is particularly effective at killing Broadsides.

[number6]

As I've noted before: Tau are particularly difficult for DH to battle. And the Tau are actually one of the deadliest and most efficient armies in low-points (i.e., sub-1500 pts) games like you're playing. (At 1500 pts and higher, most armies can finally bring enough assets -- and enough of the right kind of assets -- to actually challenge Tau for superiority on the battlefield in the Movement and Shooting phases.)

 

So you're doubly behind the 8-ball. :woot:

 

I honestly don't think you'll ever have an easy game of it. And this is one of the few cases where I think list tailoring is justified. Firstly, as you note, you're playing Tau A LOT. Secondly, the mismatch is just so extreme that you'll have to skew your build just to make it a halfway challenge.

 

Firstly, going pure GK will almost never work. Pure GK is a terrible 5th edition army, and Tau can just light you up all day long without breaking a sweat. (And bringing along a single Rhino with ISTs in it doesn't really count for much, either. :P )

 

Try something like the following instead.

 

HQ

[254 pts] BC, psycannon; 3 GKTs, psycannon

 

Troop

[225 pts] 6 GKs, 2x psycannon

[138 pts] 6 ISTs, 2x melta; Rhino, extra armour, smoke

[128 pts] 5 ISTs, 2x melta; Rhino, extra armour, smoke

[105 pts] IG Platoon Command Squad, lascannon; Chimera

[125 pts] IG Platoon Infantry Squad, lascannon; Chimera

[125 pts] IG Platoon Infantry Squad, lascannon; Chimera

[75 pts] IG Platoon Heavy Weapons Squad, 3x autocannon

[75 pts] IG Platoon Heavy Weapons Squad, 3x autocannon

 

Total: 1250 pts exactly

 

Give the infantry squad chimeras to the GKTs and PAGKs. This list solves most of the problems your current list has. Firstly, significantly more ranged firepower. Enough, in fact, to make even the Tau have to choose between advancing ISTs and GKs (who are also shooting out the top hatch of their chimeras with their psycannons!) or silencing the lascannons and autocannons of the IG. And the IG have lots of ablative wounds on those lascannons, so those won't be easy to remove quickly. (Deploy them and the heavy weapons teams in cover, of course!). The amount of S6 firepower coming off the GKs and Chimeras is just sickening, too.

 

Be sure to put heavy flamers on the Chimeras, too. ;)

 

You also have more armoured targets than before. And even if the Tau manages to dismount you, you still have lots of firepower available. Hopefully, you can get your GKs into assault position within just a turn or two, as well.

 

FWIW: This 1250 pt list would make a fine all-comers list as well.

[ntgcleaner]

to Inquisitor NicolePyykkonen

Yes, I was Zerg-rushing him right off the bat. If my LR didn't blow up, I would have been set and assaulting on round 2. but that's how the game is played. He just got me really early.

 

to Chengar Qordath

I LOVE the Callidus assassin but I feel like I can't ever justify the point sink in having to buy the assassin and the INQ and kit the INQ to fit whoever hes rolling with. I may try her again since he has more broadsides now. But turn 2, the game could already be over for me if I tried the same strategy.

 

to number6

You have helped me out a ton with my strategies and I appreciate another approach. I am just very stubborn in not wanting to take an allied army. I know I am at a HUGE disadvantage but I would like to say that I overcame odds and I now have an approach to a win at any time.

 

I have been too aggressive with my gameplay (looking back on it now) I have been wanting first turn and wanting to be the first one to take out something large. I Would hate to be shot down before I even move my pieces.

 

So, I am going to change my tactics and do a slow play game. We usually always play annihilation, we have just recently been specifying what kind of points we are taking.

 

I think I'm going to try two squads of IST's in Rhinos w/ meltas, then build my army around that.

[Grabsnikk]

I would suggest putting Smoke Launchers on your LR if you dont have them on there already. It seems like you are trying to outshoot the Tau from turn 1 which just isnt going to happen at all, I would reccommend dropping the 2 dreads that you have been using and pick up a LRC instead to give the GKT a transport. First turn you should be rushing those LR towards the Tau and popping smoke on both of them, this will increase their survivability as our smokes make penetrating hits count as glancing. This will hopefully allow you to get at least 1 unit into combat with his Broadsides on turn 2 so that you can butcher them.

[stoopicus]

I'm primarily a Tau player and basically would say that going mech against the Tau is your worst option. If there is one thing the Tau are good at, it is popping transports. The last game I played against a LR-equipped force, I destroyed (exploded) the LR on *the first shot of the game*. This is not uncommon. Bringing a lot of tanks (of any type) to fight the Tau is just going to make for a happy Tau player. Crisis suit missile pods and plasma rifles are just made to bust open rhinos and chimeras, too.

 

So, go the other way. Bring lots of Meq and Teq troops. This is what scares me most as the Tau. The biggest problem Tau have is that once something solid has closed into CC range, the Tau are kind of screwed. I'm a lot less scared of your Land Raiders than I am of three full squads of FA PAGK plus a bunch of teletermies.

 

With that in mind, going pure GK, I would suggest loading up the FA slots with teleporting PAGK w/ incinerators. Similarly, HQ with large retinue of beatdown, and elite termies too - power weapons are crucial for beating down the XV88's. Plus, his XV88's probably are BASS which makes them easy to chase down and murder.

 

Sticking with the BroCap hero is probably fine for the Tau. He's going to be jump-shoot-jumping the suits, so you'll want psycannons on the termies and massed storm bolter fire from the PAGK's. Make them take a lot, a LOT, of 3+ armor saves. Eventually you'll get through. But get in to CC any chance you can.

 

Enough Str 6 CC attacks on *any* Tau vehicle or suit will bring it down. Bring meltabombs if you are unsure.

 

Also, see if your opponent is up for Forge World rules. We Tau are all going crazy over FW right now because of the XV9. If your opponent gets to bring an XV9, you get to bring Dreadnaught Drop Pods with locator beacons. That will make a *huge* difference, right from turn 1.

 

Edit: Number6's list above is interesting too. Not because it's mech (all the transports are probably going to die relatively quickly) but because of the implicit choice it forces on the Tau. It's not really a GK list either, it's basically an IG list with some superbad elites and HQ, so it balances very nicely. I hate fighting the IG as Tau - and not just because the Valkyrie/Vendetta is just sick. number6's list has an effective Vendetta in firepower spread out in a very hard to kill way. Ouch.

[Artemis360]

Do you think that maybe you're letting your past losses cloud your judgement somewhat? Sometimes when you start losing games you begin starting new games feeling like "I've gotta get in there, I've gotta get in there, I've gotta get in there" when in fact sometimes patience is the most important asset.

 

Plus, I'm afraid I didn't have time to read the other posts very thoroughly but I saw someone said maybe mech isn't the best choice. I agree. Looking at his list there as you've posted it, there seems to be a big lack of crisis suits but there are a lot of long range guns. So use your shrouding and max out on your water-warrior assetts and play style, after all, what he really wants is for you to take your delicate, expensive, compact force and rush at him insanely and get torn to shreds in the cross fire, but I imagine he'll be exhibiting a fair bit of frustration when you're lingering at his maximum range, blowing his face off with psycannons while his broadsides cant see through your shrouding. Lastly, the callidus does seem like she'd be quite win here and who says you need to give the inquisitor equipment? I give mine a lavish combo of bolt pistol, chainsword, targeter, frags and meltabombs.

[stoopicus]

So, as an example of what GK are up against, my 1250 point anti-Marine Tau list:

 

XV8 Shas 'El Commander, plasma rifle, twinlinked missile pod, HW multitracker, HW target lock

Two minimal Fire Warrior teams, leaders w/ Markerlight.

 

2 crisis teams, each:

XV8 Team Lead, TL Missile pod, plasma rifle, HW Multitracker, Bonding Knife

2xXV8 w/Missile Pod, Plasma Rifle, Multitracker

 

2xHammerhead w/ railgun, SMS, Disr Pod, Multitracker

 

XV88 Team: Team lead w/ASS, twinlinked plasma rifle, hardwired multitracker; XV88 w/ ASS.

 

This leaves me about 70 points to throw in to stuff depending on how I feel at the time. Maybe 10 kroot in reserve, or skimp on the SMS and get a Devilfish for one FW squad and reserve them.

 

So, in my 1250 point list I have four railguns (two twinlinked), Seven missile pods (three twinlinked), 8 plasma rifles (one twinlinked). All enemy transports will very likely be dead by turn three at the latest. I don't recommend mech against this list. Similarly, this list is deadly at 36", if I can see you, and devastating at 24. I don't recommend a shootout.

 

On the other hand, I have two (maybe three) small, chewy scoring units. *all* of my units - even the tanks - die horribly in CC (if you can catch them).

 

For pure GK I am afraid this means lots of teleporting PAGK and termies. And then, if it goes well, I am completely screwed.

[Dilgar]

I´ll put my 50 cent in too :nuke:

 

I also only play with one LR, so we are in the same boat. Tau is also a foe I´ve played against quite a few times. I have won more then lost agains Tau, granted I´ve only played 1,5k pts games (I think).

 

My main advice is to bring atleast two squads of 8 vanilla GK, that´s what I do. the LR is also vital, togheter with a few GKT and a BC, don´t make it overly expensive, trust me they will kill whatever Tau has to offer in CC ;).

 

I´ve wrote this before on this forum, but against Tau, the LR should be kept save at all cost. By this I mean u can easily eliminate alot of there weapons, atleast they are shooting some GK in cover with S10 shots :). Bring the LR in as a response or counter-attack to some of his moves. Maybe show a side sponson here and there to get a TLLC shot in, but keep it in +3 cover for as long as it seems appropriate.

 

The IQ Lord with full henchmen unit, 3 HB/plasma cannon-servitors, 2 mystic,, 2 sage and 3 acolyte. is a bane for Tau too. And very vital for keeping your LR alive so no besky Tau Commander suddenly jumps close to your LR and pops it, oh no, make him jump it to somewhere else :).

 

I´ve NEVER been in CC or even close to killing a full squad of Firewarriors, they are just utterly useless against DH IMHO, atleast there range is so short that if Tau footslogs them they aren´t going to shoot much. or if they are in a devilfish then that is your primary target to shoot down (maybe plasma cannons, or 5 IST with 2 melta in a rhino/chimera). The Tau player doesn´t want to bring em too close to your GKs and they haven´t got that good AS or LD. They do run from time to time :).

 

So, get enough bodies on the field, dreadnoughts are ok, but take a Callidus and u will be forever blessed ;), she rocks against alot of armies out there and is generally VERY hated against my foes (though she dies and fails way to often IMO ;)).

 

Something like:

 

HQ:

 

IQ Lord 206

- Psycannon

-3 HB

-2 Mystic

-2 Sage

-3 Acolytes

 

BC 199

-3 GKT

(LR, SMOKE(!), EA, light) 259

 

Troops:

 

8 GK 225

8 GK 225

 

5 IST 159

-2 melta

- Dedi. Chimera (like em more over the Rhino), EA, smoke, light

- Multi laser

 

That list is 1273 points, a bit to much for a 1250 list but close. Basically it has alot of anti-infantry weaponry, but point everything towards those jump suits and they will fall like flies.

 

U got 36 infantry models there, with smart use of cover they will prevail. My tau battles usually involves heavy casulties, that is for sure, but if the Tau player is jumping around close to u, then take care of them first, don´t rush headlong against his fireline, deny him the targets. Keep the Grey Knights close to eachoter as a combined shooting face from them usually (atleast should) scare the opponents jump infantry enough not to get to close (they got short weapon range), if they do, assault them :).

 

Hope this helped atleast some, haven´t played against Tau for a few months now so can´t remember everthing.

[stoopicus]

Minor nit, Fire warrior range is only six inches less than psycannon range - they are one of the longest (if not the longest) range basic infantry in the game, and have the strongest basic infantry shot too. Fire warriors rock pretty hard at range.

 

Low point games like this against Tau seem hard for GK. You WANT to take the LR, but it is definitely going to die if it gets into useful range of the Tau railguns, which is more or less the entire table. Cover is your only saving grace, but effectively using cover with a LR while moving it can be challenging too. It's huge.

 

In your list there, basically (using my list as an example) there's 4 railguns shooting at two vehicles each turn - and that's just the Heavy Support, not the main transport-killing elites. I wouldn't want to be the Chimera driver :nuke:

 

If you're spending the points for an IQ lord+retinue I'd *definitely* take a Callidus assassin too and have her waste the broadsides.

[Dilgar]

Minor nit, Fire warrior range is only six inches less than psycannon range - they are one of the longest (if not the longest) range basic infantry in the game, and have the strongest basic infantry shot too. Fire warriors rock pretty hard at range.

 

Low point games like this against Tau seem hard for GK. You WANT to take the LR, but it is definitely going to die if it gets into useful range of the Tau railguns, which is more or less the entire table. Cover is your only saving grace, but effectively using cover with a LR while moving it can be challenging too. It's huge.

 

In your list there, basically (using my list as an example) there's 4 railguns shooting at two vehicles each turn - and that's just the Heavy Support, not the main transport-killing elites. I wouldn't want to be the Chimera driver :D

 

If you're spending the points for an IQ lord+retinue I'd *definitely* take a Callidus assassin too and have her waste the broadsides.

 

True about the FW, didn´t think straight. What I was after was that they usually are deployed once somewhere, and usually in cover. From there they have a hard time moving. and then they don´t shoot. So they should be easily enough avoided by cover and no LOS.

 

True enough that atleast playing against two Hammerheads at 1250 points is definetely an upphill battle. In fact I´ve never played against two hammerheads. There´s always been one though. I seldom destroy it though. I tend to focus on the units that are either closing in on me or sitting at some objective I want. FW and Hammerheads usually sit back and shoot.

 

And yes, the Callidus is pretty much as much anti-Tau a DH player can go.

[number6]

You shouldn't play an all-foot list against Tau just because they excel at popping transports. There are very few strong foot armies in the game -- only SWs, IG, and Tyranids. All others need to at least partially mechanize to get around the fact that they are SLOW and easily killed. Mechanizing mitigates "slow", obviously. It also mitigates "easily killed" because the enemy is forced to attack you at least twice in order to hurt you. They must first remove the transport, which denies all anti-infantry firepower to begin with.

 

And while Tau have a plethora of options to de-meching you, they still have to do it!

 

I play Tau as well, and stoopicus's list exemplifies what I was talking about earlier with how efficient Tau are at low points levels. To combat that, you MUST mechanize to force difficult choices on your Tau opponent. Going all foot is not an option, because Tau will always outrange you and will always be faster than you. You won't be able to catch them on foot ... ever. And they'll just shoot you off the table for trying. Going all mech is not a good option either (e.g., taking a pair of land raiders!) because then you have no constant threats to force choices. You're just giving the Tau one or two obvious targets that they can focus fire on and eliminate ... and then they can finish you off piecemeal after that.

 

stoopicus's analysis of my sample army build is worth repeating because it gets to the heart of everything I've been trying to promote in DH list-building here in this forum since 5th edition 40K was released.

 

Number6's list above is interesting too. Not because it's mech (all the transports are probably going to die relatively quickly) but because of the implicit choice it forces on the Tau. It's not really a GK list either, it's basically an IG list with some superbad elites and HQ, so it balances very nicely. I hate fighting the IG as Tau - and not just because the Valkyrie/Vendetta is just sick. number6's list has an effective Vendetta in firepower spread out in a very hard to kill way. Ouch.

 

My sample list may have five transports as the only vehicles. That sounds weak, but it is FIVE vehicles. Even the Tau will not be able to disable/destroy five vehicles in a single turn. They'd be extremely lucky to do that to two, let alone three or more. The odds are you'll have more than 1/2 your vehicles still operational after the first Tau turn. Even assuming they can fully disable/destroy 4 vehicles in two game turns, that would still leave you at least 1 vehicle operational enough to drop something off at their doorstep, which is typically all you need to do. Even assuming they can disable/destroy all your vehicles in just two game turns, the list I put together is so redundant that it remains effective even so. And you will have advanced something upon them to back them up a bit.

 

It's the only way you'll be able to consistently compete with the DH.

 

Quite simply, there is NO WAY AT ALL that a pure GK list -- no matter how you build it -- can compete on even footing with the Tau. Ever. It doesn't have the tools, bodies, weapons, mobility ... no capabilities to do so. And this is only compounded by the low points levels you're currently playing at, where Tau really dominate.

[ntgcleaner]

Quite simply, there is NO WAY AT ALL that a pure GK list -- no matter how you build it -- can compete on even footing with the Tau.

Ever.

 

I've been telling my friend that also, but it is still great to try to see how everything plays out. I am mainly sticking with the DH as a main army (and I am actually building a Chaos army also - I know... can someone say oxymoron?) because I love the tactical feeling and play style. Plus now, it feels like, when I lose, it's just another learning experience. When I win... It is devastating for him. "How can I lose to that?!" That's always fun. I feel, though, If I can beat Tau, I can beat just about anyone. My first game other than Tau was with Eldar. I won. not because of bad dice or anything, but because I knew how to handle fast armies. and frankly, the Eldar just didn't have the same threats as Tau do. Anyways - I would like to stick with DH of course and keep playing them, It hits me hard when I don't win, but I love the thrill of building a list that has possibilities.

 

So, taking everyone's suggestions, I just compiled a list that may have some potential. I used to be against DSing and I thought it was not great to sit there and get shot at, but... well let me show you, then Ill explain.

 

HQ:

BC w/ Psycannon

3x Terminator Retinue, w/ psycannon

 

Troop 1:

5x IST w/ 2 Meltaguns

Rhino w/ smoke

 

Troop 2:

5x IST w/ 2 Meltaguns

Rhino w/ smoke

 

Fast Attack 1:

5x Pagk w/ 2 Incinerators (one is Justicar)

Melta Bombs

 

Fast Attack 1:

5x Pagk w/ 2 Incinerators (one is Justicar)

Melta Bombs

 

Elites 1:

3x GK Terminators w/ 1 Psycannon (one is BC obviously)

Melta Bombs

 

Elites 2:

1x Inquisitor w/ Terminator Armor, Psycannon

Melta Bombs

 

Elites 3:

Callidus Assassin ('nuff said)

 

Total 1228 points

Leftover 22 points

 

What I am thinking for this squad is, of course, only have the two rhinos on the table behind some good cover and allow them to sit or move towards cover on the first turn (possibly using smoke).

 

Put the INQ in with the lone terminators to make two groups of four terminators and two groups of five PAGK who all DS in hopefuly before turn 4, along with the assassin.

 

The strat here would be to DS as much as possible at one time, pinching and choking out the Tau forces to split up a bit. The assassin would go directly to the broadsuites, the Termies would hopefuly DS close to his Crisis suits and choke his JSJ to chosing one termie squad or the other. The PAGK would DS close to any unit packed in enough to use the incinerators (muahaha). While all of this DSing is happening, my Rhinos would be moving in for the kill on his armor.

 

I would hope (of course) to bring as many DSers in as possible, small (fearless) groups would make him split his fire as you are saying number6, so his entire firewarrior squad may only get to shoot at a 5 pack (oh, that's after they get incineratored, hopefuly)

 

any suggestions on this type of list?

[ntgcleaner]

Sorry, Got the numbers wrong. Here's the list

 

HQ

BC w/ 3 termie retinue w/ 1 psycannon

 

Elite

INQ w/ Targeter and Terminator Armor

with 3 termies and 1 psycannon

 

Troops:

5 IST's w/ 2 meltas

Rhino w/ smoke, EA

 

Troops:

5 IST's w/ 2 meltas

Rhino w/ smoke, EA

 

Fast Attack:

5 Pagk w/ 2 Incinerators

 

5 Pagk w/ 2 Incinerators

 

Total : 1243 / 1250

 

Remember, we are playing Annihilation, no need for "Scoring" units.

[Dilgar]

I still have a hard time beliving that u can´t win with a pure GK army. Done it to prove it wrong. I always play 1,5k pts. Pure DH list is easier, much easier, granted.

 

Dunno, have a hard time explaining what I do, but it mainly is denying the shot for most his guys, while forcing him to come to a certain position where I can, by a simple 6" move get all my guys firepower to use.

 

The list I posted before would look pretty much the same as in 1,5k pts, just add a Callidus (play her in almost any list I have), and a Hellfire dreadnought.

 

If u play annhilation then those small PAGK will be the worst choice u ever took :).

 

 

I´d do this:

 

HQ

IQ Lord

 

BC

- 2 GKT Retinue

 

Troops:

 

5 IST's w/ 2 meltas

Rhino w/ smoke, EA

 

5 IST's w/ 2 meltas

Rhino w/ smoke, EA

 

8 GK

 

7 GK

 

Elite:

 

Callidus

 

Heavy:

 

LR

 

 

That is 1249 points, and in annhilation, if your IST and there transports will not die right out, then u got a very good chance of winning. The think is to use your Callidus to get a hole for your Rhinos and LR to move all out. U still have a very good chance of getting a 6 turn so waiting 2 turns before u get your Callidus out is no biggy. Hope it helps.

 

Edit:

 

As I don´t play Rhinos (I go for Chimeras), u only have one fire point in the Rhino, so two meltas is not necessary. This makes the IST+ Rhino a not so good choice IMO.

 

I´d chance the list to look like this:

 

 

HQ

IQ Lord

 

BC

- 2 GKT Retinue

 

Troops:

 

5 IST's w/ 2 meltas

Chimera, EA, Smoke

- Multi laser

 

8 GK

 

8 GK

 

Elite:

 

Callidus

 

Heavy:

 

LR

 

 

That is 1176 points, u can add a henchmen fire base, which would protect your vehicles from deep strikes.

[Magnus Thane]

Fascinating topic so far. I'm glad to see there are other DH players out there that enjoy playing pure GK and try to avoid spamming LR's.

 

Deepstriking, incins and GKT's seem a good choice.

Dreads with missiles/Las might be worth considering if several are fielded.

[ArmouredWing]

The one thing I'd comment on in regards to Dilgar's list, do you really need an =][= lord when you've already got a BC in the HQ slot?

 

As I've already said I'm WH rather than DH but it seems that if you've got a valid HQ would it be better to save some of the points invested in there and instead have an elite =][= to unlock the assassin?

[stoopicus]

I should probably add that my GK force is pure GK too; in fact, I still don't even have a LR. That said, I would not want to fight my Tau with them at less than a couple thousand points, and then probably only if I can use forge world rules for the dreadnought drop pod :)

 

I am considering buying an inquisitor and a callidus assassin, but I am pretty happy with the spirit of a pure GK force.

[Dilgar]

The one thing I'd comment on in regards to Dilgar's list, do you really need an =][= lord when you've already got a BC in the HQ slot?

 

As I've already said I'm WH rather than DH but it seems that if you've got a valid HQ would it be better to save some of the points invested in there and instead have an elite =][= to unlock the assassin?

 

Simply but, yes it´s worth it, especially since there is some points left to make a decent fire base from henchmen. The extra wounds and +3 save is good as u can put some hits on him every now and then too, makes the fire base a bit more resiliant. Although, if points are few then the elite is a good choice too, u might be getting a plasma cannon or such instead, so it might be worth trading.

 

Edit: although in the above list I wouldn´t use a HQ choice, as it is a low point battle, so yeah, a elite IQ would be better

 

My opponents have realized it´s my one soft spot where wounding is easy :) , so only HB-servitors for me (usually), and a psycannon for the IQ lord. It´s personal taste really, a vanilla elite IQ with plasma cannon servitors + the usual henchmen, is not that much more expensive then a IQ Lord with psycannon, HB-servitors + other henchmen. HB´s are also more reliable then plasma cannons, a thing I really value. Togheter with the re-roll the two sages provide it is usually quite alot of dices I get from a unit like that. Although the Plasma cannon fire base is almost the same points, it has fewer wounds, and loosing a plasma cannon servitor hurts more then a HB servitor :).

 

So,

 

IQ Lord

-Psycannon

3 HB-Servitors

2 Mystic

2 Sages

3 Acolyte

 

This is 206 points

 

or

 

IQ

3 PC-Servitors

2 Mystic

2 Sages

3 Acolytes

 

This is211 points

 

Not much difference. Less wounds on the PC unit, less reliable, but more fire power. the PC unit also has a bit more uses, as plasma cannons can crack (transport)vehicles quite effectivly.

 

Obviously, ntgcleaner hasn´t got that many points to spend on his fire base, but some HB or such should fit in.