Land Speeder Tactics

[Lumdin]

I have seen alot of people recommend using land speeders with different variations. 2 - Typhoon / MM or 2 MM / HF.

 

Mine concern is I have never really used them before and I know they can be fragile if not played right.

 

I know you can deep strike them, but do you deep strike them into or near cover? Or do you bring them in near a target to take them out? I assume they can usually shoot one weapon after deep striking.

 

Do you bring them up the field through cover and go flat out to get closer? Disadvantages? Advantages?

 

What kind of scenarios or opponents set ups would effect how you use them?

 

I use a LRC with Ragnar , whirlwind, vindicator, and 1 LF pack (3ML, 2 LC). 2 large Gh packs and 2 - 5 man GH packs, 2 rhinos and 1 -TLHB razorback

 

I have a wide variety of opponents i play in our league. Usually 30 to 40 players. Orks, Tau, Eldar, Dark eldar, SM, Necron, BT, BA and IG (armored and heavy troops), so pretty much everything.

 

So I try to make a list that gives me a chance against all comers, my biggest problems are against shooty armies. Any good general tactics with the army I listed above would be a good send. I know deployment and turn order can make a huge difference.

 

Sorry I know this may be alot of info to give me, but it would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

Thanks

[clanfield]

hi

genraly i use a single multi melta speeder as a tank hunter ,she runs full whack down the flank useing cover to stop behind then whilst my rhinos chug up field getting all the attention the hunt begins ,this tactic isnt so hot against hordes as they saturate the field (no realy).

 

i never deep strike her unless its planet strike

 

hope this helps good hunting

[Lumdin]

But if you go flat out doesnt that automatically give you a cover save?

 

Or do you go flat out 24" and try to reduce LOS to the speeder as much as possible?

[clanfield]

turbo saves only work for bikes and yes id use cover to set up for a short rear attck in round 2-3 (within 12" for max melta damage) ,then its just a list of prority targets to work through ,my main assult will keep there attantion for long enough to achive suprise

[DV8]

turbo saves only work for bikes and yes id use cover to set up for a short rear attck in round 2-3 (within 12" for max melta damage) ,then its just a list of prority targets to work through ,my main assult will keep there attantion for long enough to achive suprise

 

Speeders that move flat out (in the case of Land Speeders, 13"-24") get a 4+ cover save.

 

The key to using Land Speeders is to create many more targets for the enemy to worry about, thereby working around the relative fragility of Land Speeders (their AV10 all round means most basic infantry in the game can and will kill them in a round of shooting). Learn to use your speed, and available cover, to maneouver around, present yourself only to what you intend to kill, and minimize incoming fire.

 

Also learn distances, and keep your Speeders at the maximum range needed to inflict the damage you need. Example, Typhoons against infantry have an effective max range of 36"-48". Whether you shoot from 12" away or 36" away doesn't matter, so why go closer than you have to?

 

My 1500 point list uses 2 Typhoons (squadroned) and a pair of single Tornadoes (Multi-melta and Heavy Flamer) to great effect, because they support a mechanized, in-your-face army that create many more immediate threats than the speeders.

 

 

DV8

[clanfield]

ooh thanks dv 8 i didnt know that nice one

[TheLastHuzzah]

I personally use two (separate FoC slots) in every army I make (unless I'm specifically trying to avoid putting them in the army). Prior to 5th edition I used them as suicide units, Boost them 24" first turn and you SHOULD be able to get positioned for a MM shot. If I lost one of the two to fire, I was still generally able to handle tanks. With the new Vehicle damage chart, vehicles are more resistant and I have begun adding a heavy flamer. Most opponents that have vehicles will take the Melta off with a weapon destroyed result, the 8" flamer template still makes them dangerous.

 

If you have the first turn, I would say put them on the field and boost 24", when I have the 2nd turn of the game I'll hold them for Deepstrike, even if you hide them behind cover, there is no guarantee they survive the first turn.

 

I have not used the typhoon variant, I feel it's a bit expensive (don't have numbers memorized but I think about 90 pts?), the MM/HF version comes in at 70 pts, and if I recall correctly that's only 5 points more than the last edition of our codex.

 

-Huzzah

[DV8]

It really depends heavily on your play style and how you synergize your army list. As mentioned, I play a mechanized army, so I want all my units to be mobile. Which means my support units must also be mobile, and for me Typhoons are the easiest way to bring some heavy firepower to bear that is capable of not only keeping up with my army, to able to redeploy around the field without taking a major hit in firepower.

 

Played right, you'll find your Land Speeders will survive many many games. I have yet to lose all my Speeders (at most 2, and generally the Tornadoes).

 

 

DV8

[Wildfire]

Remember to fight outside of 18" if possible, so bolters and the like aren't going to get into rapid-fire range as easily. A multi-melta is just fine for taking down transports at 24", and probably not worth risking to get closer if you're shooting at AV10 or 11.

[Natanael]

I just like to add that taking a typhoon with MM is a total waste of the MM. Instead go typhoon/HB and you're set.

 

I tried using MM/HF-speeders a while ago, and hated them because of the short range and weak armour. Then I tried out a typhoon and not it is part of almost any army list I make. Fast, packs a lot of firepower and long range makes it the #1 choice for me. The ability to go 12" and still fire a lot of your weapons (2 kraks och HB&2 frags) is great for minimizing incoming fire. It is also much more all around then the MM/HF in my opinion.

[jbrebel]

I'm a big fan of Typhoons. I just keep 'em in the rear and blast away, I destroyed a trygon with a full squad in one shooting phase. Next turn hormagaunts were getting love from the frag blasts and HBs. Typhoons are versatile and can stay out of harms reach, just watch out for out flankers!

[Tograth]

One thing about typhoons that i dont understand is how everyone talks of them as plural - the book says you may only upgrade "a" speeder to be a typhoon. This means one, not all of them in the squadron.

[commander alexander]

I primarily use them for tank/MC hunting with multi melta spam, as with bolters you generally have enough anti infantry, and their mobility is a great tool.

[Thunderpup]

One thing about typhoons that i dont understand is how everyone talks of them as plural - the book says you may only upgrade "a" speeder to be a typhoon. This means one, not all of them in the squadron.

 

Obviously, you can take three typhoons (Seperate squadrons) before taking any other Landspeeders if you so choose.

[Wolf Lord Ronin]

One thing about typhoons that i dont understand is how everyone talks of them as plural - the book says you may only upgrade "a" speeder to be a typhoon. This means one, not all of them in the squadron.

 

Obviously, you can take three typhoons (Seperate squadrons) before taking any other Landspeeders if you so choose.

 

Bugger, completely never noticed this. Been wanting to take 2 Typhoons as one squadron. Bummer

[daemonwolf]

I believe it says: alternatively "a" land speeder may be upgraded to a typhoon.

Not as in: only 'one' land speeder may take this upgrade. everywehere else in the codex it says 'one' if they mean one. For example, One swiftclaw may take....

But as in: a landspeeder may take a multi melta, assault cannon...... alternatively 'a' land speeder may be upgraded to a typhoon.

 

a is different then one. I read it as you can not take a land speeder with typhoon and a multi-melta or other weapons combination.

If you take a Typhoon, it is a typhoon missile launcher with a heavy bolter.

 

But English is not my native language, so what do I know...

[Thunderpup]

Yea i would like it clarified. :lol:

 

1st upgrade says "Any Land Speeder may..."

 

2nd upgrade says "Any Land Speeder may... Land Speeder Tornado..."

 

Last upgrade says "Alternatively a Land Speeder ... Land Speeder Typhoon..."

 

It could be understood either way, IMHO, but the change in phrasing means either;

 

You can take only one Typhoon per squadron

 

or

 

They got tired of wording it the same way, thinking they were being different, and you can take as many Typhoons as you want.

 

<shrugs>

[CainTheHunter]

I believe it says: alternatively "a" land speeder may be upgraded to a typhoon.

Not as in: only 'one' land speeder may take this upgrade. everywehere else in the codex it says 'one' if they mean one. For example, One swiftclaw may take....

But as in: a landspeeder may take a multi melta, assault cannon...... alternatively 'a' land speeder may be upgraded to a typhoon.

 

a is different then one. I read it as you can not take a land speeder with typhoon and a multi-melta or other weapons combination.

If you take a Typhoon, it is a typhoon missile launcher with a heavy bolter.

 

But English is not my native language, so what do I know...

 

Yeah, we discussed it a bit ago, and reached no conclusion - and GW FAQ left it out. The issue is because wording in C:SM, where You can take LST in squadrons and wording in C:SW are different.

[Wildfire]

Huh. It never even occured to me to think that you could only take one Typhoon. I guess I can sort of see the argument.

[Wolf Lord Ronin]

Yeah I had a look at Codex: SM and they do word it differently. It can be argued either/or, but finding out the rules interpretation on this is important, as it entirely changes the way I may wish to field Typhoons, if at all, since I'd rather use them in pairs as a single squadron, then have two single Landspeeders take up two Fast Attack FOC slots, as well as being relatively easy KP.

[EricBasser]

My friend uses Land Speeders as a contester in Objective Holding Missions. Is that a bad idea? Yes, but only if the game goes on when we roll. He holds them back until it gets close the the end of the game and charges them forward. If the game last any longer, I've taken out a squad of 3 with Bolters and 2 Plasmaguns.

 

As for the wording on Typhoons, I believe it can go either way.

The reasoning for being able to take multiple in your pack would be "alternatively" means that you can't mix weapons from Tornado with Typhoon.

 

The reasoning for not being able to take multiple would be the different wording. Because it differs from the regular and tornado upgrades, that looks like GW wanted only one in a pack.

 

I've been running them in seperate packs just to be safe. But you could always ask the store that you play at or even the opponent.

[antique_nova]

as some have said, they are used to contest objective and used as cheap mobile mech support. They have the ability to be equipped with 2x heavy flamers to take out entire horde squads or atleast the majority of it. Or like i did last weekend, taking 2 land speeders with 4 multi-meltas between them and took down a stompa ( an ork gargantuan dreadnought ) with 2 exploding results and the same with a looted baneblade in as many turns respectively. They can also bunny hope between buildings and other tanks that will block enemy LOS to them so that they can make a difference next turn.

 

The most balanced and effective all comer build for the land speeder, and the most taken, is 1x multi-melta and 1x heavy flamer.

 

hope that helps!

 

thanks

antique_nova

[CainTheHunter]

i've been using speeders in the last battles. And first you've got to deal with there fragile armour. Once you've done that, you gonna love them. They really are powerfull when used right.

 

But to join the discussion about the Typhoon, can't we contact GW about it? Maybe they can clarify it? I never tried to contact them, so i don;t know how easy/difficult it might be.

 

At least for the tournaments You need it sorted out in official FAQ - or sorted out by the organisers. Getting answers from some chap in GW won't work, because they can be overruled by another chap in other GW department.

[Godhead]

As far as a Typhoon only having the TML and a HB only, I disagree. It specifically says ANY landspeeder may upgrade its heavy bolter to a MM or HF. As to whether or not you can have squadrons of them, it does not say One land speeder per squadron may be upgraded to a tyhpoon model it says "Alternatively, a landspeeder may be...." To me that doesn't limit the number of upgrades, but informs one of the option to upgrade the LS. I think the wording it trying to prevent the Typhoonado that the BA's pdf dex allowed (ie TML,and AC and HB/MM loadout on a single speeder).

[DV8]

This just seems to me a case of different writers approaching the same unit and wording the rules differently, with (I think) the same intent.

 

When reading the upgrades for a Land Speeder squadron, consider it a logical progression.

 

First option: Any Land Speeder may upgrade it's Heavy Bolter with...

 

Fairly obvious. Buy a Land Speeder, and you have the option to upgrade it's gun.

 

Second option: Any Land Speeder may be upgraded to a Tornado with...

 

Again, fairly obvious. Buy a Land Speeder, and you are first given the option to upgrade it's main gun. You are then also given the option to upgrade it to a Tornado by adding a snub-nosed gun.

 

Third option: Alternatively, a Land Speeder may be upgraded to a Typhoon with...

 

Here's the thing. If you continue the logical sequential progression, at this point, you've purchased a Land Speeder, and you have either kept the Heavy Bolter, or upgraded it. You are then presented with the option to make it a Tornado, or alternatively make it a Typhoon by giving it Typhoon Missile Launchers. Not both, just either or.

 

In this instance (and referring to every other unit in the Space Wolves book as precedence of intent), it says "a Land Speeder", and not "one Land Speeder", as it does when referring to singular unit upgrades (like the Wolf Totem, Mark of the Wulfen, Special Weapons, etc).

 

 

DV8