Allocating wounds and taking saves

[FenrirTheFeisty]

Im from Estonia, we are a small country and because of that we have a really small 40k comunity there is about 20 players in Estonia. We dont have any GW stores nor do we have a retailer at the moment who would sell GW stuff in their store. So as you can see the internet is our place to go when we cant manage to agree on something in our small group.

 

SO hear me out pleas. The discussion is copied from our estonian forum

 

"zippy wrote:

you have 5 asualt terminators (3 with thunder hammers, 2 with lightning claws) + 1 librarian with storm shield.

5 shots fly in: 3 from plasma gun, 2 from bolters. Now i will ofc allocate so: 1 plasma wound on libi, 2 on the TT termies, and bolter wounds on LC termies."

 

ME:

As you said you have to roll the saves acording to the profile of the groups so can you roll 5+ invul saves for the 2 termies with TH, 3+ invul save for librarian for the SS and two 2+ armor saves for the LC termies?

 

"zippy wrote:

now the questions that blows up my mind: 2 wounds fly in into libi in cc or shooting if he was alone - 1 powe weapon and 1 normal weapon. DO I HAVE TO ROLL 2 INVULNERABLE SAVES IF I WANT TO SAVE, OR CAN I ROLL 1 ARMOR SAVE AND 1 INVULNERABLE SAVE?"

 

ME:

The Rulebooks says (page 24, Models with more than one save)

In the cases when a model has multiple saves eg. armor, invul and cover. Then he gets to make only one kind of saving throw but he has the advantage of always using the best available save.

 

So let say that the librarian has a 2+ armor save, a 3+ invul from the SS and a 4+ cover save. In the shooting phase he is wounded by one AP2 shot and a normal bolter shot. he would have no use of the 2+armor save because he would suffer a wound from the AP2 shot so he would have to take either an invul save or a cover save and here is his chance to take the best one for him because both of these saves can stop an AP2 wound and a normal bolter wound.

But in close combat you can not take a cover save so against power weapon wounds you should always roll an invul save, or if you are willing to let that one wound in in the hopes that you will save the other one with a better save you can do that also.

 

Why i brought that subject up in the first place is that all the time i have played (which isnt a long time) everybody have told me that you can only take one kind of save for a unit but now i started searching where it is actually written in the Rulebook i cant find it. My logic tells me that if you roll saves in the shooting phase by grouping the units that have exactly the same wargear, weapons and stats you should take the save that is the best for the group.

And in CC your IG would take the best saves for him for the wounds that were directly caused against him by the enemies with whom he is in base contact and these wounds can t be allocated to other men in the squad because for all intents and purposes the IC is a separate one man unit during the CC.

 

thanks for the help

Fenrir

[Jaarl Stormfang]

You can only take one save per wound

 

If your librarian was wounded by a power weapon and a regular attack, you treat them seperately. The power weapon ignores armour so the one save you choose is the invulnerable one. The other one doesn't ignore armour so you save it with your regular armour save.

[Quillen]

It's a save a wound witht he best save you can use against it. So he would roll 2+ for the bolter and then a 3+ for the plasma because of the shield.

[Wildfire]

"zippy wrote:

you have 5 asualt terminators (3 with thunder hammers, 2 with lightning claws) + 1 librarian with storm shield.

5 shots fly in: 3 from plasma gun, 2 from bolters. Now i will ofc allocate so: 1 plasma wound on libi, 2 on the TT termies, and bolter wounds on LC termies."

 

First off, you allocate wounds, not shots. I assume that's what you mean here, but I just wanted to make sure.

 

ME:

As you said you have to roll the saves acording to the profile of the groups so can you roll 5+ invul saves for the 2 termies with TH, 3+ invul save for librarian for the SS and two 2+ armor saves for the LC termies?

 

Thunderhammer termies also come with storm shield, so they'd have a 3+ invulnerable.

 

 

Quillen is correct about which saves you can take.

[FenrirTheFeisty]

hmmm interesting so if a single model (lets say a lonly GH) who only has an armor save stands in cover and is wounded by an armor penetrating shot and a flamer shot, then you take one cover save and one armor save.

am i right because thats what im reading out from your answers

 

Fenrir

[LPetersson]

hmmm interesting so if a single model (lets say a lonly GH) who only has an armor save stands in cover and is wounded by an armor penetrating shot and a flamer shot, then you take one cover save and one armor save.

am i right because thats what im reading out from your answers

 

Fenrir

 

Yes, that is correct.

Armour save for the flamer that ignores cover and a cover save for the shot that ignores armour.

[Grey Mage]

Now, Fenrir, it sounded for a minute like you think you can only use a save once per round... and thats not the case. While you can only take one save per wound, you get that save each and every time you take a wound.

 

Example: Rune Priest in Terminator Armor takes 4 wounds from Bolters, and one wound from a Plasmarifle. You would get the 5+ invulnerable save against the plasma, and then you would also roll four 2+ armor saves against the bolter wounds.

 

Make sense?

[Wildfire]

hmmm interesting so if a single model (lets say a lonly GH) who only has an armor save stands in cover and is wounded by an armor penetrating shot and a flamer shot, then you take one cover save and one armor save.

am i right because thats what im reading out from your answers

 

Fenrir

 

Yup, exactly right.

[FenrirTheFeisty]

Yeah now it does. Thanks to everybody for clearing that up

[WG Vrox]

Above is all correct, some advanced tactics would allow the following to take place.

 

 

Though this could be plasma shots I will use cc as an example.

 

You have 2 PW wounds and 3 normal close combat wounds to allocate to your squad of 3 WG in TDA. One WG has a 3+ SS and the other two their TDA 5+ invol save.

 

As long as all the hits come in at the same initiative, say INT 4, you can put both the PW hits on the SS WG to get the 3+ save and the 3 normal saves against the other two TDA WG to get their 2+ saves.

 

Some people make the mistake of thinking they have to spread out the power weapon hits among the unit available, but as long as you can wrap the wounds around "meaning all models first take a singe wound allocation dice" you can choose who take the PW dice. At times I will put all PW hits on the same guy.

 

 

Simple idea, just hard to explain.

 

Vrox

[Ravenger]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlEN4MoTi28 <-- wounding models.

as long as u can understand english speaking =\