Fighting Eldar

[River Black]

The last two or three months I have been constantly playing against (by choice) a fantastically good eldar player who plays what I think is a fairly aggressive list. While I really enjoy the games I have with him I am starting to get discourage. Right now I am going on twelve games without so much as a win or a tie. So I have finally broken down and come crawling to the Bolter and Chainsword looking for answers, suggestions and strategies.

 

His typical list: While his lists changes around they all focus on the same theme. Aspects. He will normally run wave serpents which are loaded with Banshees + Farseer, Striking scorpions and dire avengers. He also runs a Falcon with fire dragons, a half dozen warp spiders, an avatar, minimum squad of dark reapers, and two other squads of dire avengers. If he wants to be nice and play his full fluff list he will also include the shining spears and the swooping hawks but that seems to be a rare occurrence. If he wants to be mean… seer council on jet bike but that’s so rare ive only seen it once.

 

My typical list: I normally run a Kahn/Bikes list. Although my list also changes from game to game below is a general idea of what I usually run. I the list below isn’t exact and the numbers in the squads change. Look at it as more of a general concept then a refined list.

 

Kahn w/ Command Squad: Champ, LC x2, SS x2

Dreadnaught in Drop Pod: MM, Naked

Bike Squad: 8 Bikes: PW, Flamer x 2, Ab w/ HB

Bike Squad: 6 Bikes: PW, Melta x 2, Ab w/ MM

Bike Squad: 6 Bikes: PW, Melta x 2, Ab w/ MM

Scout Bikes: 3 Bikes: Melta bombs

Attack Bikes: 2 Bikes: MM x2

Attack Bikes: 2 Bikes: Either HB or MM

Predator: AC, HB

Predator: AC, HB

 

If you would like to suggest changes to the list I am all ears however I was hoping to get a little more from this thread then just unit selections and war gear options.

What I am hoping for from this thread is a better understanding of how an army like this should react to elder. I say react because I feel like I am constantly reacting to him not vice versa. He always seems to out maneuver me.

 

Here are a few things that I am looking for solutions on.

 

1) Although my bikes are fast one of two things always seem to happen. I either don’t seem to have enough firepower to stop him or I have too many bikes and they are tripping over each other. This restricts their movement and causes them to not be as effective as they should be. To top things off the speed of his list seems to trump mine removing my armies greatest asset.

 

2) Banshees and the Farseer… He cast fortune on them, doom on their target, and they wreck what ever they hit. Unless I somehow shoot down their wave serpent before they reach their destination they almost never take any fire before they hit combat. It then takes me the entire game to whittle them down to the point of ineffectiveness at which point its to late.

 

3) Avatar… His fearless bubble ensures that his units stay where he wants them regardless of any fire they take. Although he is a beast in combat I am normally fast enough to avoid him and if he does reach combat the game is almost over. He laughs at melta and absorbs small arms fire to the point where I would rather ignore him then shoot him.

 

4) Deployment ideas: How should I deploy against him. What should I keep in reverses / outflank. I know this is a hard one because we cannot account for terrain size type and placement.

 

There is more but I don’t want to scar to many people away with too long of a first post (this one is long enough) Anyway thanks is advance for your advice and hopefully we can get a good discussion going that involves more then “take lighting claws over power swords” and “drop the bikes and play a sternguard, terminator, vulkan list.”

[River Black]

Sorry I just noticed the Anti Eldar thread down below and although that may answer some of my questions I would still like to hear some opinions on how to improve my game game while using a Kahn/Bike army.

[Koremu]

Take 10 Sternguard with a Librarian with Gate and Null Zone. No more silly fortune, no more Avatar, no more Doom if you're lucky with P.Hood roles.

[Demoulius]

well a powerfist or two would allow you to deal with the avatar abit (its not optimal but its something) and also may i suggest an assault squad? sure the white scars use bikes alot but they dont outlaw units do they? :tu: so still somewaht fluffy and would give you a good unit to reac with, with regards to the problems you seem to have. either that or increase the size of your bike units. bikes are T5 but if your wielding small units it wont be long before they are all taken down.

 

and eldar vehicles are pretty resiliant if upgraded properly. they can almost negate incoming shots but are pretty pricey IIRC. focus on 1 or 2 transports at a time, if they unloaded their cargo their still a threat in objective games, ignore them in killpoint games imho, unless you manage to prevent them from moving somehow at which case they die horribly to assaults.

 

if you can shoot at his units in the open youll shred them to pieces. T3 gets wounded easily and most aspect warriors have a 4+ IIRC. heavy bolters eat them for breakfast. other than these points i dont think ive got all that much to mention

[Cameron Magnus]

I recall that White Scars also use Land Speeders. You could have a single squadron of Typhoons either start in cover or in reserve. Starting in cover is nice. You just roll out when its your turn and unload 6 krack missiles on the enemy transports.

 

You can have Heavy bolters to increase their effectiveness against infantry to a massacre. With 9 S5 AP4 shots and 6 S4 AP5 templates any unit of infantry will struggle against the number of hits you can acheive.

 

I more often run with three Multi Meltas. I dont need to struggle to get a side/rear shot and with 9 S8 shots on those transports and wraithlords they can put out alot of Anti Tank fire power.

 

I understand that they are fragile and expensive but if used right it only takes one turn for them to make up their tactical value and rarely more than two to make up their points value.

 

They wont survive long if your opponent sees the threat they pose. Use cover or come in from reserves to keep them allive longer.

[Marshal Wilhelm]

Have you seen Grey Mage's topic? ~ KILLING ELDAR

[Grey Mage]

Edit: You rang?

 

Feel Blessed he doesnt run Shining Spears more often- those things are the ultimate heavy horse of 40k today.

 

Anyways, youve got a solid list... looks like you just need to hone some tactics.

 

1) Waveserpents are not transports- they are tanks. I know, their job is to transport the killy stuff, but they are tough nuts to crack so treat them like main battle tanks, and make them a target priority.

2) Heavy Bolters wipe most aspects- particularly Banshees, Fire Dragons, and Dire Avengers. Whirlwinds do this too, but better.

3) Eldar Transports are not open topped, nor are they assault vehicles- you should always get a turn to destroy it and the contents, use that.

 

He will normally run wave serpents which are loaded with Banshees + Farseer, Striking scorpions and dire avengers. He also runs a Falcon with fire dragons, a half dozen warp spiders, an avatar, minimum squad of dark reapers, and two other squads of dire avengers. If he wants to be nice and play his full fluff list he will also include the shining spears and the swooping hawks but that seems to be a rare occurrence. If he wants to be mean… seer council on jet bike but that’s so rare ive only seen it once.

 

A few more things-

1) The only scoring units youve mentioned are Dire Avengers- so is it two squads hes running or 3? Remember to roll for scenarios- eldar excell at annihilation, but mounted armies tend to be troop light because of the prohibitive cost * a waveserpent costs as much as a DA squad*.

2) Can you get a thunderhammer in your command squad? If the Avatar is really causing you so many problems you can take him out with a TH in about three rounds of combat. You might also do better if you had some plasma in the army... but as its set up now, youll just need to ignore him otherwise.

3) Speaking of wich, why dont you have any plasma? Volume of fire will kill more Eldar Tanks then high strength weapons.

4) Banshees wound bikes on a 6+, even with rerolls thats not great. Get a librarian for the psychic hood *wich will help against nidz, IG, and others aswell* and youll fair alot better in most every game- avenger is wonderful for killing spiders+scorpions+spears by the way.

5) Your Dreadnaught... you might consider an IC instead for general use, but against Eldar Im going to have to reccommend either getting a heavy flamer so he can actually kill enemy infantry or dropping the pod and running him with a pair of TLACs to really put the hurt on enemy skimmers/aspects.

 

Now, unless hes using star engines on everything there is no reason he should be faster than you - turboboost is 24" for any bike in the game, not just his. If he is using starengines, thats fine he cant disembark after moving that far so you can just move out of assault range and hit it with LR firepower- another reason those Plasmaguns would really come in handy. After wich your normal bikers can shoot down the squad that was inside it, or you could hit it with a nice template of death.

 

Remember- a squad of DA in a transport runs 300pts with minimum kit, and banshees are a little higher- allocate roughly half again as many points for killing each squad on a given turn if you want to make them combat ineffective. IE- 2x Predator+Bike Squad= Dead Banshees?. And always focus on his fast units first- the Avatar is slow.... kill anything in a transport first. Then you have your speed back, and can dance around him all day.

 

Lastly, remember that seers councils are non-scoring and have NO POWERWEAPONS. Caps for a reason- put your command squad in CC with them, and youll find that youve tied up twice your points in enemies with no one going anywhere soon... and nothing much he can do about it.