Where does it say you can only use 1 codex in a game.

[BrotherArius]

Ive looked, and cant find it in any of my rulebooks where it says that you can only use one Codex in a regular game. (*not* Apocalypse, or Planetstrike) but a regular game. The opening paragraph to the Codex:Space Wolves , Codex:Chaos Space Marines, and Codex:Space Marines, all of the most recent edition:

 

"Every army has its own Codex that works with these rules, allowing you to turn your collection into an organised force

ready for your games of Warhammer 40,000"

 

I see no reason why you would not be able to use allied armies in a game of Warhammer, provided you still utilized the force organization chart appropriately, and your opponent agreed.

 

Case In Point: I am wanting to run an Ultramarines army, using the vanilla Space Marines codex with Space Wolves elites choices in place of the vanilla marines elite choices. I have roughly 5,000 points of each army and it would be nice to see them fight together more often than only Apocalypse battles. I have even developed a suitable story-line combining the armies in pursuit of a common enemy over the years...the vile greenskins

[Isiah]

Well of course you can use allies providing you are not stopped doing so by your main codex, and providing the codex from which you want to take allies also allows it.

 

If you ask your opponents permission to do something a bit more unusual (as in your instance) then that is fine too provided they agree.

 

You have to remember though that each individual Codex is designed to be self-balancing in terms of "potency" for want of a better word. Using allied units can upset that balance and lead to over-powerment etc. This is why for instance the DH and WH codexes only allow you to select a maximum of certain unit/character types in each force org slot for potential use as allies.

 

Cheers

I

[Ntin]

Each rule set is its own microcosm with its own idiosyncrasy and its consideration when coupled with rule set is not part of the design process. Generally to take allies you must fill your current force organizational chart or like Isiah said play an Inquisitional list. I played my friends with my 2,0000 points of daemons versus their combined 2,000 Ork and Tyranid list. Even though they had to share the same force organizational charts and field the minimum requirements for each of them I still lost horribly. Monstrous creatures and Zonathropes to supplement Ork Boz in Trukks they played off the strengths and weaknesses of both lists because it was never intended for those two codices to be used together. Although Space Wolves and Ultramarines are more a like they are still unique stand alone lists.

[Legatus]

If your opponents are ok with it you can freely mix and match units from different army books as you please. However, the general idea is that each player choses one army, and then constructs a force based on the army list from that armies Codex.

 

"Once they have agreed on a points limit, the players will pick their forces. The best way to do this is to use the full army lists in the relevant Codex book for each army, but players just starting out can use any models that they have in their collection"

Rulebook, page 86, "Force Organisation".

 

Each Codex also usually contains a description on how a playable force is built from the Codex's army list on the one or two pages just before the army list section. Those descriptions are also based on the assumption that a player will play one particular army, and use that armie's Codex.

 

For example, in Codex Space Marines it is on page 127:

 

"The following pages contain an army list that enables you to field a Space Marines army (...)

The army list allows you to pick an army based on the troops that could be fielded by a Space Marines Battle Company (...)

Look in the relevant section of the army list and decide what unit you want to have in your army, how many models there will be in it, and which upgrades wou want (...)"

 

In Codex Chaos Space Marines that description of how to use the army list is on page 89:

 

"This army list allows you to pick an army based on a warband of one of the Traitor Legions or one of the many different renegade armies (...)

Before you choose an army, you will need to agree with your opponent the total number of points each of you will spend. You can then proceed to pick your army as described below (...)

Look in the relevant section of the army list and decide what units you want to have in your army, how many models there will be in it, and which upgrades you want (...)"

 

So it indeed is pretty much expected that you pick your desired army, for example "Chaos Space Marines", and then use that armie's official army list provided in their Codex.

 

In the Codex Daemonhunters and Codex Witchhunters there were specific rules how you could use certain units from these Codices in other imperial forces, or how you could use certain Imperial units in a Daemonhunter or Witchhunter army. If it would be generally possible to use units from different Codices in your army then such specific rules would not have been necessary.

 

I believe that in tournaments it is usually pointed out that each army has to be constructed from one single Codex, but that was mainly to prevent imperial armies from including previously mentioned Daemonhunter or Witchhunter units.

[LPetersson]

I would suggest using the multiple detachment rules from page 87 of the rulebook...

[Frosty the Pyro]

Your force organization chart only allows you to use choices from its own codex. If you want to use more than one army at the same time, you use multiple detatchments. The only real exception is the "allies" rules in the witchhunter and Deamon hunter codecs.

 

Of course with oponents permision you can. But then again with oponents permision you can do anything you want, right down to feilding genestealers in your black templar army and giving them all power armor and a chaos sorcer for a sergent and a wave serpent transport.

[thade]

You have to remember though that each individual Codex is designed to be self-balancing in terms of "potency" for want of a better word. Using allied units can upset that balance and lead to over-powerment etc. This is why for instance the DH and WH codexes only allow you to select a maximum of certain unit/character types in each force org slot for potential use as allies.

 

Brother Isiah hits a very important note here: each codex is balanced against others; each has it's own strengths and weaknesses. Freely merging units from two armies (using the "multiple detachment rules" or not) allows you to break that balance, addressing weaknesses that you're not meant to be able to remedy.

 

This is only fair, really, if your opponent is doing the same thing (or at least agrees to it). It's less a "It's in the rules" and more a "It's the spirit of the game" thing. No Space Marine would march beside a Chaos Space Marine; but man, it'd be awesome to have my Vanguard tear into a unit with a Demon Prince. Imagine both a Librarian AND a Farseer on the table, making the opponent take psychic tests on three d6 instead of 2, THEN having to roll off against the Librarian. Imbalance. @_@

 

Sometimes it's fun to fight an uphill battle, just be willing to both talk it over with your opponent and let him/her do the same to you from time to time. :D

[Hfran Morkai]

You have to remember though that each individual Codex is designed to be self-balancing in terms of "potency" for want of a better word. Using allied units can upset that balance and lead to over-powerment etc. This is why for instance the DH and WH codexes only allow you to select a maximum of certain unit/character types in each force org slot for potential use as allies.

 

Brother Isiah hits a very important note here: each codex is balanced against others; each has it's own strengths and weaknesses. Freely merging units from two armies (using the "multiple detachment rules" or not) allows you to break that balance, addressing weaknesses that you're not meant to be able to remedy.

 

This is only fair, really, if your opponent is doing the same thing (or at least agrees to it). It's less a "It's in the rules" and more a "It's the spirit of the game" thing. No Space Marine would march beside a Chaos Space Marine; but man, it'd be awesome to have my Vanguard tear into a unit with a Demon Prince. Imagine both a Librarian AND a Farseer on the table, making the opponent take psychic tests on three d6 instead of 2, THEN having to roll off against the Librarian. Imbalance. @_@

 

Sometimes it's fun to fight an uphill battle, just be willing to both talk it over with your opponent and let him/her do the same to you from time to time. :D

 

I was thinking more Space Wolf packs in Space Marine Drop Pods :lol:

 

That would be insane using multiple codexes though.

 

You could have the ordnance/armour provided by the Guard and the assault elements of the Wolves...not good.

[Chaplain Admetus]

It would probably be best to try something like that in a several player game. For example, you turn up with 1000 points of Marines and 1000 points of Wolves against someone with 1000 points of Eldar and someone with 1000 points of Nids (just as an example.) Or, if you can get a mate who's interested, try a battle where you both use a mixture of two armies, which levels the playing field a little (if only I could field my Tau and my Blood Angels in the same army...)

[Top Secret]

There is no rule that says I can't pick up all your models, throw them into a blender with some ice, and have a plastic milkshake either.

 

 

No, you can't.

[Wildfire]

I see no reason why you would not be able to use allied armies in a game of Warhammer, provided you still utilized the force organization chart appropriately, and your opponent agreed.

 

You can do anything you like, so long as your opponent agrees. There's plenty of times my friends and I have changed or made up rules, either as permanent house rule or for single games.

 

That being said, the balance issue is why codexes are supposed to be used by themselves (the Inquisition books being the exception).

[Isiah]

Yep I think this one's covered. Not so sure on the milkshake though :unsure:

[Commander Sasha]

I think the best thing to do in these situations is to play mini-Apocalypse, where mixed armies are allowed, but the different systems of setting up, time-bidding, indeterminate rounds and stratagems help to level out any codex imbalances.

 

For example, you might take Tau gunners for long-range support for your Wolf boys, but if I can use tunnels, your Tau are at a much reduced threat level.

 

I'm guessing you are quite new to the game? When I first started, I wanted to mix Marines & Witchhunters; I wanted Exorcists, and Repentia in a Land Raider, and it seemed odd that I couldn't.

Then you meet someone who has come up with a better illegal combo than yours, and you realise why the rules are the way they are! :)

[Frosty the Pyro]

I'm guessing you are quite new to the game? When I first started, I wanted to mix Marines & Witchhunters; I wanted Exorcists, and Repentia in a Land Raider, and it seemed odd that I couldn't.

You can do that...

 

Which hunters as parret army to get the exorcist and repentia. Take terminators who can get a land raider as a transport. You still wont be able to put the repentia in the raider, but thats because their special rules dont let them enter any vehicles. Fortunatly I do not beleive the allies rules will survive the -hunters getting a codex update.

[Commander Sasha]

You can do that...

 

Which hunters as parret army to get the exorcist and repentia. Take terminators who can get a land raider as a transport. You still wont be able to put the repentia in the raider, but thats because their special rules dont let them enter any vehicles. Fortunatly I do not beleive the allies rules will survive the -hunters getting a codex update.

I agree that the Allies rule would be best left out of the next -hunters codex, it upsets the game for every other codex. Chaos players can't mix C:D and C:CSM.

 

Re: the exorcists, you can't ally Heavy support into another army. :-(

 

I only wanted the Repentia because I like girls with big swords; having found out how poorly they perform even for a good WH player, they have now been reassigned as objectives, decor, tank drivers and assault bike gunners!

[Frosty the Pyro]

which is why which hunters is the parrent army and marines are the allied in army. The ally rules work both ways. you get the land raider as an elite choice with terminators. (and you can take a single elite from the ally army). Also repentia cannot drive tanks, they "may never be transported in a vehcile," assuming you werent just refering to sticking the model on a tank as decoration.

[Dudds]

In regards to the OP, I think what it's saying is you can't pick and choose between the codecies for one army.

 

An Example would be, you can't use Codex Dark Angels for your Terminators and then use C:SM for the improved Storm Shield save, or if you're using the C:DA for bikes and terminators you can't then use C:SM for your tactical squads. You pick one or the other, not both. In the case of allying armies I believe it's fine to use their individual codex.

[Isiah]

In regards to the OP, I think what it's saying is you can't pick and choose between the codecies for one army.

 

An Example would be, you can't use Codex Dark Angels for your Terminators and then use C:SM for the improved Storm Shield save, or if you're using the C:DA for bikes and terminators you can't then use C:SM for your tactical squads. You pick one or the other, not both. In the case of allying armies I believe it's fine to use their individual codex.

 

Although there's a truth here, the latest DA FAQ [Oct 08] allows you to use new items or rules or stats from the C:SM with opponents permission – though the preferred option is always to stick with your own book. (Again it all comes down to asking permission.) Yes it's a bit of a get out clause, but does allow say, the use of the better Storm Shield save that you mentioned.

 

Cheers

I

[Frosty the Pyro]

In regards to the OP, I think what it's saying is you can't pick and choose between the codecies for one army.

 

An Example would be, you can't use Codex Dark Angels for your Terminators and then use C:SM for the improved Storm Shield save, or if you're using the C:DA for bikes and terminators you can't then use C:SM for your tactical squads. You pick one or the other, not both. In the case of allying armies I believe it's fine to use their individual codex.

right, and only which hunters and deamon hunters can be used as allies (or induct other armies as alllies) due to specific rules in those codexies. Space Wolves and Space Marines can never be allies.