The Angels of Adamantium

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Origins

 

A chapter of Dark Angels geneseed, 12th founding. They began with the faith in the Codex that a young chapter has, and soon began building up their numbers to fight for the Emperor. When the Sixth Company was fully formed, the Chapter Master (a young captain from the Hunters of Truth by the name of Tririea) ordered the Third company to answer a call for aid against a Slaaneshi host that had fallen upon a nearby world. The Third, hungry fo battle, quickly arrived on system on a strike cruiser. The Captain of the Thirds first act of war was to order a group of bastions to be taken from the enemy. This his company did with great relish, losing few and killing many cultists.

 

With the bastions taken, the Captain began ferrying down supplies to the bastions, and setting them up as his command. It was middway through this process that the enemy retaliated. They rushed against the bastions with preturnatural speed, Blastmasters felling the few bastions almost at will. The Third managed to fight them off and earn some respite as the enemy retreated. But the Third had taken heavy losses, and the captain knew that the only way to prevail was to have one warrior take a beacon into the heart of the enemies host. He put on a jumppack, and prepared for his suicidal charge when a hand stopped him, for the remnants of his company was also putting on the jumpacks that were being ferried down when the enemy had struck. They knew their captains plan, and they knew that his oddds would dramatically increase with them at his side.

 

With tears of sorrow that such noble warriors should die, the Captain of the Third charged the enemy. The moment before combat began, he activated the beacon. With that he swept his power sword, and first blood was his.

 

But the brutal melee that followed had very little glory in it. All around the captain his warriors were dieing, but they bravely held on so that thick lances of the Emperors fury might come down and deliver them to the Emperor while destroying the infidels. Yet the Captain had a few seconds warning before it came, and so with the speed of astartes he leapt into the air while telling the five marines that remained to follow him. Of those five three were cut down, but the captain and the two survivors fled.

 

They were not a moment to soon, for a second later the beacon itself was pounded into oblivion as an orbital strike commenced. The Slaaneshi host was completely destroyed, and later it required a single regiment of Imperial Guard to finish the campaign on the planet.

 

 

 

Tririea watched the footage from the battle in silence. He alone saw the fact that only three marines had lived out of the hundred that were sent. He knew that he had failed as chapter master.

 

As he watched the video again, he noticed that his marines were moving so slow compared to the renegades. They seemed sluggish and the enemy, in contrast, looked like mere flashes of silver blades. He began to concentrate on that speed, and here a lesser man would have turned. But Tririea stayed true to the Emperor, and he knew that for his chapter to succeed they would need to be even faster and dealier than the enemy. He declared that all marines would be mounted on jump packs, and their heavy weapons would have to be cast aside, armoured vehicles would support them instead. But even when they had traded their heavy weapons for the jumppacks at the nearest forgeworld, it was not the what affected the Engels the most.

 

 

As per the orders of Tririea, weapons that enabled the wielder to move faster, such as lightning claws or rapiers, began to be seen as more superior to more bulky weapns. Close combat was preached as more holy than ranged combat. Though scouts were armed with bolters, and the youngest of those who had earned their power armour were armed with them as well, those who were more senior wielded chainswords and bolt pistols. The true veterans were given the option to become the fastest of all, and the First Company rode to war on bikes.

 

The Battle of Corrupted Angels

 

Fairly early in the Angels history, relatively a third of the Angels rebeled. This rebellion was brought to the fore when the loyal marines and the traitorous Angels were both camped outside of Tireiean Square, and a the Master of Sancicity preached to the loyalists. At the height of his fiery rehortic he cried "Angels No More!" and charged the enemy camp. In a second all of the true Angels of Adamantium were behind him, and although the traitors had time to mount a countercharge, they were completely destroyed within five minutes of the two forces meeting. Since that time that has been their battlecry against any foe they fight for all they fight have fallen from the Emperors grace at some point or another.

 

Beliefs

 

The Angels of Adamantium see close combat as holy, and those who have proven the speed of their blade are held in high regard. The Emperor protects those who are willing to risk their life for Him the most, and so the Angels believe in rushing at the enemy as one terrifyingly unstoppable wave.

 

However, many battle-brothers fall in such attacks. Those that do are seen as those the Emperor has chosen to guide to his side either after they have proven their devotion, or before they can betray Him. Few marines turn traitor, and all but one has been executed before they could escape the chapter.

 

This is because they uncannily hate traitors, though why is unknown. Although all loyal marines hate traitors few can match the fury that the Angels of Adamantium muster. What is so puzzling about this is the chapter rarely fights them, as they are located on the Eastern Fringe.

 

Homeworld

 

Although they have no homeworld, as they are a fleet based chapter, they operate on the Eastern Fringe. They have had many encounters with Tyranids, and many battles bear resemble that of their very first, as many companies have been sacrified to do great damage to some of the larger splinters of the Hive Fleets.

 

This faster than normal depletion of astartes has lead to a larger than normal Tenth company. It is roughly the size of a company and a half, although this size has varied to match the needs at the moment.

 

Orginization

 

Since the first disastrous battle the Angels have disdained the Codex, for they hold the view that it is what failed them. As such the chapter is organized as such:

 

There is ten companies, with HQ being seperate. Each company is made up of roughly 100 marines, although that number varies depending on who is leading it. Some Captains have small forces, leading small but devastating charges, and such companies are often sent to help out a larger body of Imperial Guard. Others choose to have companies of 200 marines, although their is a strict restriction on the amount of marines within a company. This is because of an incident when a rather large company of 350 marines followed their captain into service of the Chaos Gods.

 

Also, the Tenth company usually has 150 to 250 scouts. Although the Angels of Adamantium have a high need for scouts the consider the need for high quaility scouts paramount. Although most will die soon those that do live must be perfect embodiements of the Emperors will, unstoppable bringers of wrath. All scouts must be the best that they can be made for these heroes to exist.

 

Companies are organized with three types of squads, plus HQ. These are known as:

 

Brethren - fresh from recieving their last implant, and with that their power armour, these marines are given a bolter and a jumppack. These squads are primarily used to outflank the enemy, to teach them the most important lesson of all: patience. They are told to rely on ranged combat as much as possible, to surprise the enemy and cut as many of them down in a single, sudden, devastating salvo of bolter shells. This teaches them to wait for the best possible moment, and thus patience. This is all important to the Angels, for they need patience to decide when to charge, when they can casue the most impact on the battle as possible.

 

Outer Circle - These are marines who have been deemed worthy of the chainsword. They can look upon the battle and see when they should charge, but they know that they still most prove their worth to the Emperor and risk their lives for Him before they can truly be blessed.

 

Inner Circle - These are marines who have seen many years of battle, and have trained their bodies to mave as fast as possible. They are armed with whatever weapons they please, and are most often seen as leaders of Squads of Brethren and Inner Circle.

 

The HQ are normally a Chaplain and/or a Librarian alongside a captain. Each of these herioc figures leads a squad of Inner Circle marines.

 

The First Company is mounted entirely on bikes, given the blessing of being able to move as fast as technology and their bodies will let them. It also gives them the honor of being the first onto glorious close combat, weakanng the enemy with their twinlinked bolters before breaking them entirely with their close combat prowess.

 

 

 

Battlecry

 

Angels no more!

 

Geneseed

 

The Angels of Adamantium bear the remarkably pure geneseed of the Dark Angels. Although they constantly seek means of which they should be able to move faster, they disdain any attempts to alter their bodies. They hold their primarch and the Emperor in high ragard, He has taken their primarchs flesh and crafted it, and as He makes no mistakes why should they try to make it better?

 

Color Scheme

 

http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/smsbeta...1A&pws=true

[Ace Debonair]

OK, this is going to be an IA, right?

 

At the moment your origins consists of the following:

A chapter of Dark Angels geneseed, 12th founding. They began with the faith in the Codex that a young chapter has.

 

And the IA stops here. :D Perhaps adding more about where they are in the galaxy, what their mission was and so forth will help.

I'd cut the battle out completely, or at least cut it down severely, and focus on what impact the loss of the third company has on the fledgeling chapter.

It's in your origins section, so I assume it is going to have a severe impact.

 

On a side note, and to bring up the old discussion - so far I see no lightning claws. :lol:

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

OK, this is going to be an IA, right?

 

At the moment your origins consists of the following:

A chapter of Dark Angels geneseed, 12th founding. They began with the faith in the Codex that a young chapter has.

 

And the IA stops here. :) Perhaps adding more about where they are in the galaxy, what their mission was and so forth will help.

I'd cut the battle out completely, or at least cut it down severely, and focus on what impact the loss of the third company has on the fledgeling chapter.

It's in your origins section, so I assume it is going to have a severe impact.

 

On a side note, and to bring up the old discussion - so far I see no lightning claws. :wink:

 

Eh, I am still adding on to the origins. The battle is part of the origins, for you geussed correctly - sort of. The loss of the Third isn't going to have a huge impact, its what the chapter master will see of losing the third, as well as the strengths of the enemy :geek:

 

 

On the side note, be patient. Lightning claws are my second favorite weapon after all - right after the glaive.

 

Going to expand soon, but might not get the chance to do much.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

BTW, I did add some stuff. Have at it!

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

65 views and nobody besides Ace has anything to say? I added a small bit more, so if you think there is any problem with that, feel free to tell me...

[Lt. Smash]

Im gonna try and give as much feedback as possible as I know how boring it is when no-one has replied in awhile.

 

I know Ace has already said it but the story/battle, while awesome, dosen't really fit into the origins section.

Also Rapiers? Are they really a Space Marine-y weapon.

Angels no more. More info please!

I like the fact that you have copmpensated for the heavy casulties with a larger tenth company.

Oh and on your story, the more brutal the combat the more glourious.

 

On a side note you triple posted. So I'm not the only one...

[NightrawenII]

A chapter of Dark Angels geneseed

What about Hunt of the Fallen, Inner Circle, Deathwing/Ravenwing???

 

Hunters of Truth

never heard about them

 

He began to concentrate on that speed, and here a lesser man would have turned. But Tririea stayed true to the Emperor, and he declared that all marines would be mounted on jump packs.

Huh? W00t??

[Ace Debonair]

That's rather an improvement.

 

Definitely give us the backstory for the battlecry to play with. Without the explanation the cry makes little sense, given that 'Angels' is part of the chapter's name. ^_^

 

Also, where do the AoA recruit from? Do they have a favourite planet/group of planets to take recruits from?

[Angelfire]

I do like the explanation devised for their dependence on speed and close combat.

 

I think that it's worth going into detail about the battlecry.

 

You have a great imagination, but some of your narrative seems to dull down the vividness of the scenes.

 

For instance, try changing something like this:

 

Tririea watched the footage from the battle. He looked upon the fact that only three marines had lived, out of the hundred that were sent. He knew that he had failed.

 

to this:

 

Chapter Master Tririea reviewed the recorded footage from the battle in silence. The images from [Captain's name; I suggest giving your 3rd captain a simple name]'s helmet camera revealed the ease with which the enemy had butchered his men so easily. Of the hundred men deployed, only three marines survived. Tririea had failed.

 

Tweak it so that it's in your own style, but this is just an example on how your writing could be improved.

 

-Angelfire

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Wow. I feel like I have accomplished something, both Angelfire and Ace (who I know can crack down on an Ia when they want to) have little to say.

 

But what they do say...

 

Ace: Seems like the popular consensus is to go ahead with the backstory, so thats decided. I did mention it was a fleet chapter, right? I will add a bit when I have time, I have to jet right know.

 

Angelfire, will edit when I get back.

[Darrell]

The first thing I notice about the IA, though I realize it's in a rough draft stage, is that you're relatively heavy on narrative and relatively light on facts. As you expand the article, make sure you steer away from telling us stories about battles and focus more about why your Astartes are Pretty Sweet. As far as critiques, these are some things I noticed as I read through:

 

1) The first problem area I see is the way the AoA decide to completely change their tactics and Chapter set up, for the rest of the Chapter's history, based on one battle. Their first battle, at that. I find it unlikely that a single, isolated incident would lead a group of Space Marines to drastically reorganize their fighting doctrine for an extended length of time. For a short time? Sure, I can see the need to change things up for a single campaign when you're dealing with a particularly troublesome foe. But, not forever. I mean, what happens when this new Chapter full of Assault Marines has to siege a city and can't get down the wall? Do they then decide to forever be siege specialists? And if the new siege specialists lose a Company because of an orbital bombardment, do they decide to load up on ships and bomb planets from orbit from now on? It just lends an aura of indecisiveness to the AoA, and Astartes should never give the impression of being indecisive. If you want the AoA to be assault specialists, why not have them start out that way instead of the current origins?

 

2) The way the current origin is written, it seems like Tririea takes inspiration from Traitor Marines, which is a dangerous suggestion. I would perhaps rephrase this so the inspiration is more in terms of seeing weaknesses in the Slaaneshi lines and how to exploit them, which seems a more Loyalist standpoint, rather than being so impressed by the speed exhibited that he is basically wanting to be like them. That way, it's more like the AoA are deciding to fight fire with fire, rather than looking up to the Traitor methodologies.

 

3) I'm sure a power rapier could exist, but I don't think it would work well with Astartes combat. Rapiers aren't particularly great combat weapons, unless you're fighting someone else with a rapier, and would probably end up being broken the first time you had to parry a choppa. Also, rapiers, to me, just seem too small for an Astartes to wield (And not look silly in the process); an Inquisitor, maybe, but not an Astartes. Rapiers are also not the most effective killing weapons, so it seems like an odd choice all around for a combat weapon. As a training weapon, similar to Imperial Fist duels, I could see it being used. It focuses on speed, and wounds are not likely to be lethal or debilitating so you don't risk losing a Marine to inter-Chapter fighting. I still can't picture a Space Marine dueling with a rapier without the scene being comical, but perhaps that's just my lack of imagination.

 

4) Why do they decide close combat is so much more righteous than ranged warfare? The focus on speed has an explanation, but this is a conclusion that appears (seemingly) at random within the IA. I don't think an interest in one necessarily demands an interest in the other (White Scars aren't assault crazy, for instance), so exactly why do the AoA arrive at this conclusion?

 

5) In the Beliefs section, you mention that the AoA have an "uncanny hatred of traitors". Exactly how is their hatred uncanny? All Space Marine Chapters hate traitors, because traitors, unlike heretics, KNOW the truth and make a conscious decision to turn away from the Imperium and to directly aid its enemies. These traitors may have once been brother Astartes, who now dishonor all Space Marines with their lack of faith. The traitors could also be mundane humans, who were once under Astartes protection and now thank their guardians by spitting upon every sacrifice the Chapter has made to keep them safe from the Great Enemy. I have a feeling you may be referring to the Fallen here and, if that is the case, I would focus this uncanny hatred towards that mysterious group in particular rather than traitors in general.

 

On that note, the Fallen is a particular element of the Chapter that is also missing, given that the Dark Angels geneseed was used. Certainly, your Chapter doesn't have to hunt the Fallen or even know about them, but I would suggest at least including an explanation as to why they are ignorant or apathetic towards the First Legion's dirty little secret.

 

6) If their tactics really cause so many casualties, and they do have to keep a huge Tenth Company to maintain their strength, I would suggest using this as one of the core concepts of the Chapter. If they really need so many recruits, are they having to cut corners? Are a few recruits being slipped in, under the radar, that might not be as physically pure as they should be? Has the Chapter cut back on some of the requirements of aspirants to prove themselves? Are they even using trials anymore, or are they just grabbing anyone and everyone they can find to shove a progenoid gland into and see what happens? Has this caused some concern in other areas of the Imperium, like the Inquisition or Adeptus Mechanicus, who worry that the AoA are rotting from within? Can it be stopped? Is anyone trying to stop it? What happens when a Chapter is so desperate to maintain its existence at the cost of its reputation?

 

7) Your battlecry. Battlecries, at the end of the day, are really a non-essential aspect of an IA. Really, it's basically used as a one-sentence summary of your Combat Doctrine/Beliefs section and there's no need to restate what's already there. Also, if you are going to put something into the IA that requires a backstory to understand, you need to include the backstory. It's not up to the reader to ask for clarification, it's up to the author to pro-actively offer it. More than likely, if the battle cry really needs a separate to story to explain it, you're probably better off coming up with a new one or omitting the section entirely.

 

8) The geneseed sections mention that the AoA come from the "remarkably pure genseed of the Dark Angels". I don't think remarkable is the word you want to use here. Perhaps rephrase more like "The Angels of Adamantium are descended from the pure, but inexplicably underused, geneseed of the Dark Angels".

[Angelfire]

Did I mention add pictures, too? =P

 

Would be a nice touch.

 

-Angelfire

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

All replys noted and acted upon.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

The first thing I notice about the IA, though I realize it's in a rough draft stage, is that you're relatively heavy on narrative and relatively light on facts. As you expand the article, make sure you steer away from telling us stories about battles and focus more about why your Astartes are Pretty Sweet. As far as critiques, these are some things I noticed as I read through:

 

But the narratives are why my astartes are pretty sweet...

 

1) The first problem area I see is the way the AoA decide to completely change their tactics and Chapter set up, for the rest of the Chapter's history, based on one battle. Their first battle, at that. I find it unlikely that a single, isolated incident would lead a group of Space Marines to drastically reorganize their fighting doctrine for an extended length of time. For a short time? Sure, I can see the need to change things up for a single campaign when you're dealing with a particularly troublesome foe. But, not forever. I mean, what happens when this new Chapter full of Assault Marines has to siege a city and can't get down the wall? Do they then decide to forever be siege specialists? And if the new siege specialists lose a Company because of an orbital bombardment, do they decide to load up on ships and bomb planets from orbit from now on? It just lends an aura of indecisiveness to the AoA, and Astartes should never give the impression of being indecisive. If you want the AoA to be assault specialists, why not have them start out that way instead of the current origins?

 

Nope, they stuck with that type of warfare after that. I am kind-of missing where you get them being indesisive, as their first ever battle is an EPIC FAIL. I would change my combat doctrines if that happened to me too.

 

2) The way the current origin is written, it seems like Tririea takes inspiration from Traitor Marines, which is a dangerous suggestion. I would perhaps rephrase this so the inspiration is more in terms of seeing weaknesses in the Slaaneshi lines and how to exploit them, which seems a more Loyalist standpoint, rather than being so impressed by the speed exhibited that he is basically wanting to be like them. That way, it's more like the AoA are deciding to fight fire with fire, rather than looking up to the Traitor methodologies.

 

Noted and edited.

 

3) I'm sure a power rapier could exist, but I don't think it would work well with Astartes combat. Rapiers aren't particularly great combat weapons, unless you're fighting someone else with a rapier, and would probably end up being broken the first time you had to parry a choppa. Also, rapiers, to me, just seem too small for an Astartes to wield (And not look silly in the process); an Inquisitor, maybe, but not an Astartes. Rapiers are also not the most effective killing weapons, so it seems like an odd choice all around for a combat weapon. As a training weapon, similar to Imperial Fist duels, I could see it being used. It focuses on speed, and wounds are not likely to be lethal or debilitating so you don't risk losing a Marine to inter-Chapter fighting. I still can't picture a Space Marine dueling with a rapier without the scene being comical, but perhaps that's just my lack of imagination.

 

Its your lack of imagination <_<

 

All the various things you mentioned could easily be fixed.

 

4) Why do they decide close combat is so much more righteous than ranged warfare? The focus on speed has an explanation, but this is a conclusion that appears (seemingly) at random within the IA. I don't think an interest in one necessarily demands an interest in the other (White Scars aren't assault crazy, for instance), so exactly why do the AoA arrive at this conclusion?

 

Because their chapter master said to the chaplains "start preaching that cc is better than ranged!'

 

He wanted to make his chapter faster, and thats how he did it.

 

5) In the Beliefs section, you mention that the AoA have an "uncanny hatred of traitors". Exactly how is their hatred uncanny? All Space Marine Chapters hate traitors, because traitors, unlike heretics, KNOW the truth and make a conscious decision to turn away from the Imperium and to directly aid its enemies. These traitors may have once been brother Astartes, who now dishonor all Space Marines with their lack of faith. The traitors could also be mundane humans, who were once under Astartes protection and now thank their guardians by spitting upon every sacrifice the Chapter has made to keep them safe from the Great Enemy. I have a feeling you may be referring to the Fallen here and, if that is the case, I would focus this uncanny hatred towards that mysterious group in particular rather than traitors in general.

 

 

Noted and...

 

On that note, the Fallen is a particular element of the Chapter that is also missing, given that the Dark Angels geneseed was used. Certainly, your Chapter doesn't have to hunt the Fallen or even know about them, but I would suggest at least including an explanation as to why they are ignorant or apathetic towards the First Legion's dirty little secret.

 

Somehow, I have never felt the need to write about the Fallen. I don't want my chapter to be a DA clone, and by leaving out anything about the Fallen I have made sure they aren't just copies.

 

6) If their tactics really cause so many casualties, and they do have to keep a huge Tenth Company to maintain their strength, I would suggest using this as one of the core concepts of the Chapter. If they really need so many recruits, are they having to cut corners? Are a few recruits being slipped in, under the radar, that might not be as physically pure as they should be? Has the Chapter cut back on some of the requirements of aspirants to prove themselves? Are they even using trials anymore, or are they just grabbing anyone and everyone they can find to shove a progenoid gland into and see what happens? Has this caused some concern in other areas of the Imperium, like the Inquisition or Adeptus Mechanicus, who worry that the AoA are rotting from within? Can it be stopped? Is anyone trying to stop it? What happens when a Chapter is so desperate to maintain its existence at the cost of its reputation?

 

Nope. Sorry, one of the few things not going to happen is degrade the chapters marines through the recruiting process.

 

 

7) Your battlecry. Battlecries, at the end of the day, are really a non-essential aspect of an IA. Really, it's basically used as a one-sentence summary of your Combat Doctrine/Beliefs section and there's no need to restate what's already there. Also, if you are going to put something into the IA that requires a backstory to understand, you need to include the backstory. It's not up to the reader to ask for clarification, it's up to the author to pro-actively offer it. More than likely, if the battle cry really needs a separate to story to explain it, you're probably better off coming up with a new one or omitting the section entirely.

 

Noted, I will put up a little famous battles section and add why that battlecry is.

 

The reson for doing this is because the story/battle will reflect the Angels, and the battlecry will be a reminder of that reflection.

 

 

8) The geneseed sections mention that the AoA come from the "remarkably pure genseed of the Dark Angels". I don't think remarkable is the word you want to use here. Perhaps rephrase more like "The Angels of Adamantium are descended from the pure, but inexplicably underused, geneseed of the Dark Angels".

 

But why would I need to add inexplicably underused? The geneseed is remarkably pure after all...

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

Triple post!

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

193 views and nothing? You guys are killing me.

 

Don't ask me to go into detail about how.

[NightrawenII]

The first thing I notice about the IA, though I realize it's in a rough draft stage, is that you're relatively heavy on narrative and relatively light on facts. As you expand the article, make sure you steer away from telling us stories about battles and focus more about why your Astartes are Pretty Sweet. As far as critiques, these are some things I noticed as I read through:

 

But the narratives are why my astartes are pretty sweet...

IA is sum of facts about Chapter, not the novel.

 

1) The first problem area I see is the way the AoA decide to completely change their tactics and Chapter set up, for the rest of the Chapter's history, based on one battle. Their first battle, at that. I find it unlikely that a single, isolated incident would lead a group of Space Marines to drastically reorganize their fighting doctrine for an extended length of time. For a short time? Sure, I can see the need to change things up for a single campaign when you're dealing with a particularly troublesome foe. But, not forever. I mean, what happens when this new Chapter full of Assault Marines has to siege a city and can't get down the wall? Do they then decide to forever be siege specialists? And if the new siege specialists lose a Company because of an orbital bombardment, do they decide to load up on ships and bomb planets from orbit from now on? It just lends an aura of indecisiveness to the AoA, and Astartes should never give the impression of being indecisive. If you want the AoA to be assault specialists, why not have them start out that way instead of the current origins?

 

Nope, they stuck with that type of warfare after that. I am kind-of missing where you get them being indesisive, as their first ever battle is an EPIC FAIL. I would change my combat doctrines if that happened to me too.

Indecisive, because your marines change tactic after meeting "hard to crack" foe.

Your logic for using jump-packs is a bit ilogical. Marines launched suicidal attack at enemy and were slaughtered in process. And CM instead of saying "Eh guys, this wasnt smart plan, wasnt it? says "OMG, since now we will be using suicidal attacks forever!!" :huh:

Also it wasnt Trienea fault, but the Captain of Third (give him a name), charging head-on at enemy is always bad idea.

I think you misinterpret the agility and the mobility. You Chapter rely on mobility, not on agility, which was main reason of their deafeat with slaaneshi cultists.

 

BTW, I think it will have exactly opposite effect on Chapter, ie. "Bring more and bigger guns!"

 

2) The way the current origin is written, it seems like Tririea takes inspiration from Traitor Marines, which is a dangerous suggestion. I would perhaps rephrase this so the inspiration is more in terms of seeing weaknesses in the Slaaneshi lines and how to exploit them, which seems a more Loyalist standpoint, rather than being so impressed by the speed exhibited that he is basically wanting to be like them. That way, it's more like the AoA are deciding to fight fire with fire, rather than looking up to the Traitor methodologies.

 

Noted and edited.

Doesnt seems to me. -_-

 

3) I'm sure a power rapier could exist, but I don't think it would work well with Astartes combat. Rapiers aren't particularly great combat weapons, unless you're fighting someone else with a rapier, and would probably end up being broken the first time you had to parry a choppa. Also, rapiers, to me, just seem too small for an Astartes to wield (And not look silly in the process); an Inquisitor, maybe, but not an Astartes. Rapiers are also not the most effective killing weapons, so it seems like an odd choice all around for a combat weapon. As a training weapon, similar to Imperial Fist duels, I could see it being used. It focuses on speed, and wounds are not likely to be lethal or debilitating so you don't risk losing a Marine to inter-Chapter fighting. I still can't picture a Space Marine dueling with a rapier without the scene being comical, but perhaps that's just my lack of imagination.

 

Its your lack of imagination :lol:

 

All the various things you mentioned could easily be fixed.

Then fix them. :lol:

 

4) Why do they decide close combat is so much more righteous than ranged warfare? The focus on speed has an explanation, but this is a conclusion that appears (seemingly) at random within the IA. I don't think an interest in one necessarily demands an interest in the other (White Scars aren't assault crazy, for instance), so exactly why do the AoA arrive at this conclusion?

 

Because their chapter master said to the chaplains "start preaching that cc is better than ranged!'

 

He wanted to make his chapter faster, and thats how he did it.

Cc make you better in cc, not more agile or faster. Special training will be better solution.

 

5) In the Beliefs section, you mention that the AoA have an "uncanny hatred of traitors". Exactly how is their hatred uncanny? All Space Marine Chapters hate traitors, because traitors, unlike heretics, KNOW the truth and make a conscious decision to turn away from the Imperium and to directly aid its enemies. These traitors may have once been brother Astartes, who now dishonor all Space Marines with their lack of faith. The traitors could also be mundane humans, who were once under Astartes protection and now thank their guardians by spitting upon every sacrifice the Chapter has made to keep them safe from the Great Enemy. I have a feeling you may be referring to the Fallen here and, if that is the case, I would focus this uncanny hatred towards that mysterious group in particular rather than traitors in general.

 

 

Noted and...

 

On that note, the Fallen is a particular element of the Chapter that is also missing, given that the Dark Angels geneseed was used. Certainly, your Chapter doesn't have to hunt the Fallen or even know about them, but I would suggest at least including an explanation as to why they are ignorant or apathetic towards the First Legion's dirty little secret.

 

Somehow, I have never felt the need to write about the Fallen. I don't want my chapter to be a DA clone, and by leaving out anything about the Fallen I have made sure they aren't just copies.

Then what's the point in using DA gene-seed? Dont tell me you arent using UM gene-seed, becuse you dont like UM?!?! :P

 

8) The geneseed sections mention that the AoA come from the "remarkably pure genseed of the Dark Angels". I don't think remarkable is the word you want to use here. Perhaps rephrase more like "The Angels of Adamantium are descended from the pure, but inexplicably underused, geneseed of the Dark Angels".

 

But why would I need to add inexplicably underused? The geneseed is remarkably pure after all...

Because Codex: DA say so. ;)

 

193 views and nothing? You guys are killing me.

 

Don't ask me to go into detail about how.

Well, Darrell make good C&C and you didnt any significant changes since then.

 

My other comments.

Hunters of Truth - I have never heard about them, and because you are using DA gene-seed this is important part of your IA. It is unclear if they are part of Unforgiven or if they dont know about Fallen and the Caliban mess.

 

Also given the nature of the Unforgiven is rather odd that third of the Chapter rebelled, it needs further explanation.

 

Few marines turn traitor, and all but one has been executed before they could escape the chapter.

 

This is because they uncannily hate traitors, though why is unknown. Although all loyal marines hate traitors few can match the fury that the Angels of Adamantium muster. What is so puzzling about this is the chapter rarely fights them, as they are located on the Eastern Fringe.

After reading about Battle of Corrupted Angels, this is a moot information.

[Ace Debonair]

Hmm, well.

I suppose I ought to try a little harder then, if you think I'm letting you off lightly. :)

 

So, let's get to work!

 

1) The first problem area I see is the way the AoA decide to completely change their tactics and Chapter set up, for the rest of the Chapter's history, based on one battle. Their first battle, at that. I find it unlikely that a single, isolated incident would lead a group of Space Marines to drastically reorganize their fighting doctrine for an extended length of time. For a short time? Sure, I can see the need to change things up for a single campaign when you're dealing with a particularly troublesome foe. But, not forever. I mean, what happens when this new Chapter full of Assault Marines has to siege a city and can't get down the wall? Do they then decide to forever be siege specialists? And if the new siege specialists lose a Company because of an orbital bombardment, do they decide to load up on ships and bomb planets from orbit from now on? It just lends an aura of indecisiveness to the AoA, and Astartes should never give the impression of being indecisive. If you want the AoA to be assault specialists, why not have them start out that way instead of the current origins?

 

Nope, they stuck with that type of warfare after that. I am kind-of missing where you get them being indesisive, as their first ever battle is an EPIC FAIL. I would change my combat doctrines if that happened to me too.

 

Yeah, for the next fight. That makes sense to me. But I think it would take repeated losses whilst using the old ways of fighting to cause a chapter to change tactics forever.

4) Why do they decide close combat is so much more righteous than ranged warfare? The focus on speed has an explanation, but this is a conclusion that appears (seemingly) at random within the IA. I don't think an interest in one necessarily demands an interest in the other (White Scars aren't assault crazy, for instance), so exactly why do the AoA arrive at this conclusion?

 

Because their chapter master said to the chaplains "start preaching that cc is better than ranged!'

 

He wanted to make his chapter faster, and thats how he did it.

 

So, why is none of this in the IA? :D

Any question that is asked where you can/have to respond by going "Because -Explanation-" is something that needs to be added in so we don't all ask the same question when reading it.

Also your answer begs another, similar question. Why did the chapter master tell his chaplains to preach superiority in close combat over use of firepower?

 

 

On that note, the Fallen is a particular element of the Chapter that is also missing, given that the Dark Angels geneseed was used. Certainly, your Chapter doesn't have to hunt the Fallen or even know about them, but I would suggest at least including an explanation as to why they are ignorant or apathetic towards the First Legion's dirty little secret.

 

Somehow, I have never felt the need to write about the Fallen. I don't want my chapter to be a DA clone, and by leaving out anything about the Fallen I have made sure they aren't just copies.

 

Not really true. Just not writing about them at all means that making them Dark Angels in the first place is a waste of time, and everyone will question why there is no explanation. Dark Angels come with the baggage of the Fallen, a fact that cannot be avoided. Besides, you can use these details to flesh out your chapter some more. ;)

 

Don't just rush in with more ideas, I don't think you need any more.

Just take your time, and think through all the ones you've got. Expand on all your core ideas, but think of the 'why' and the consequences of each decision. When all of these are developed, you'll have a good, characterful chapter on your hands.

 

The key points in your chapter, as I can see them, are as follows.

 

* Dark Angels successor, with all the 'Unforgiven' stuff to deal with.

* Love of fast attack and melee combat.

* Not concerned about losses amongst their ranks, but realise they need to take on more recruits to compensate.

* Fleet based, no fixed place in the galaxy.

 

Work from these key points points and expand outwards. For instance, they might commit a few squads solely to seeking out worthy recruits on planets they go past.

They might also have adopted a close-quaters doctrine that focuses on speed to make it easier to capture Fallen. In part, at least.

 

This is the same process I use on my chapters. None of them are Librarium-grade yet, but they're all much, much better than when I first posted them, so I'd say it is a good way of working on an IA.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

I don't have to hit the road now but soon, soon enough to not be able to go back and reedit. The good part of that is it will give me more time to think about what you guys have said, and you guys have brought up some good points.

 

I think that one of the main problems with the giving advice/taking advice is that I want to keep it true to the original chapter, which I rewrote five time and was promptly banned from warseer after the fifth.

 

I worked hard on that thing, and what your seeing is going to have to change, as per your advice. All replies will be acted upon, but not right now.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

1) The first problem area I see is the way the AoA decide to completely change their tactics and Chapter set up, for the rest of the Chapter's history, based on one battle. Their first battle, at that. I find it unlikely that a single, isolated incident would lead a group of Space Marines to drastically reorganize their fighting doctrine for an extended length of time. For a short time? Sure, I can see the need to change things up for a single campaign when you're dealing with a particularly troublesome foe. But, not forever. I mean, what happens when this new Chapter full of Assault Marines has to siege a city and can't get down the wall? Do they then decide to forever be siege specialists? And if the new siege specialists lose a Company because of an orbital bombardment, do they decide to load up on ships and bomb planets from orbit from now on? It just lends an aura of indecisiveness to the AoA, and Astartes should never give the impression of being indecisive. If you want the AoA to be assault specialists, why not have them start out that way instead of the current origins?

 

Nope, they stuck with that type of warfare after that. I am kind-of missing where you get them being indesisive, as their first ever battle is an EPIC FAIL. I would change my combat doctrines if that happened to me too.

 

Yeah, for the next fight. That makes sense to me. But I think it would take repeated losses whilst using the old ways of fighting to cause a chapter to change tactics forever.

 

So... you saying more battles like this need to happen? Not sure what you're trying to say.

 

 

 

 

4) Why do they decide close combat is so much more righteous than ranged warfare? The focus on speed has an explanation, but this is a conclusion that appears (seemingly) at random within the IA. I don't think an interest in one necessarily demands an interest in the other (White Scars aren't assault crazy, for instance), so exactly why do the AoA arrive at this conclusion?

 

Because their chapter master said to the chaplains "start preaching that cc is better than ranged!'

 

He wanted to make his chapter faster, and thats how he did it.

 

So, why is none of this in the IA? :lol:

Any question that is asked where you can/have to respond by going "Because -Explanation-" is something that needs to be added in so we don't all ask the same question when reading it.

Also your answer begs another, similar question. Why did the chapter master tell his chaplains to preach superiority in close combat over use of firepower?

Advice taken, as soon as I finish this post I will go back and edit.

 

I thought I had explained that in the IA...? Again, not sure where your going with this.

 

 

 

 

On that note, the Fallen is a particular element of the Chapter that is also missing, given that the Dark Angels geneseed was used. Certainly, your Chapter doesn't have to hunt the Fallen or even know about them, but I would suggest at least including an explanation as to why they are ignorant or apathetic towards the First Legion's dirty little secret.

 

Somehow, I have never felt the need to write about the Fallen. I don't want my chapter to be a DA clone, and by leaving out anything about the Fallen I have made sure they aren't just copies.

 

Not really true. Just not writing about them at all means that making them Dark Angels in the first place is a waste of time, and everyone will question why there is no explanation. Dark Angels come with the baggage of the Fallen, a fact that cannot be avoided. Besides, you can use these details to flesh out your chapter some more. <_<

 

Eh. Sure, I could use that as a reason why they uncannily hate traitors. I don't want it to sound like an excuse, but... Ignore that bit. It will get edited in.

 

 

Don't just rush in with more ideas, I don't think you need any more.

Just take your time, and think through all the ones you've got. Expand on all your core ideas, but think of the 'why' and the consequences of each decision. When all of these are developed, you'll have a good, characterful chapter on your hands.

 

The key points in your chapter, as I can see them, are as follows.

 

* Dark Angels successor, with all the 'Unforgiven' stuff to deal with.

* Love of fast attack and melee combat.

* Not concerned about losses amongst their ranks, but realise they need to take on more recruits to compensate.

* Fleet based, no fixed place in the galaxy.

 

Work from these key points points and expand outwards. For instance, they might commit a few squads solely to seeking out worthy recruits on planets they go past.

They might also have adopted a close-quaters doctrine that focuses on speed to make it easier to capture Fallen. In part, at least.

 

This is the same process I use on my chapters. None of them are Librarium-grade yet, but they're all much, much better than when I first posted them, so I'd say it is a good way of working on an IA.

 

 

Thats kind-of what I use as well, although you are missing a bullet - all jumppacks. That was the original thougt when I first made this chapter, way back when; I even had a strange Devastator/assault marine mix. Bad idea, don't ever do it.