Cliches

[Marshal Rohr]

Cliche guides are now cliche.

[Angelfire]

Angelfire:

So much impolite yelling in here. =X

All of it done by people other than the original poster, I note.

That comment is directed to nobody in particular. This topic did, however, catalyze the "flame war" so to speak.

 

You can't say that they're overdone, because *every* color has been done before.

 

...What?

 

The definition of overdone would be done so much more than the other colors that it has become trite and cliched. When almost 40% of official chapter use either red or black, they've officially hit the point where they're overdone. Especially when you add in the DIY community's affection for both.

 

It's like saying space marine armies are overdone (which they are, relative to any other other army in wargaming history).

 

So we can say they're overdone? Pick a side! :cry:

 

A chapter's colors are probably the first thing that would be noticed by another player, and a player has the right to choose colors he enjoys during his/her army design without being bullied upon by people for having the same colors as they do.

 

Yeah. I'm so bitter about my red and black chapter not being unique. Oh wait... :(

 

I think we have a right to tell that player that a lot of people do black and/or red chapters, and that if he wants to stand out he would be wise to do it in a unique fashion.

 

It's fine to inform people that black and red are commonly used colors. You claim that "[it is] important to have a unique and interesting color scheme." However, no color can be "more unique" than another color because uniqueness denotes that nothing else comparable exists.

 

I don't mean to pick on your semantics, but it's fallacious to state that an "uninteresting color scheme" is indicative of an unoriginal chapter. I personally don't see the color scheme as central to a theme (unless of course there is some backstory to the color device). It's what everyone on the other side of the table will see first, but it doesn't come first story-wise. For instance, my Stormguard (my painted table army) didn't have a color scheme until everything about their history was completed - I didn't even pick the color scheme; someone else did!

 

Regardless of where the choice of color came in the process, you cannot criticize red and/or black as a poor color choice. A common choice does not make a choice interently bad. Red and black are common, NOT "flagrant."

 

You may not like having many red and black chapters floating around, but chapter colors aren't even an even distribution to begin with. Wow, the Panamanian flag is red, blue, and white *too?* How cliche!!

 

Metaphorically, it's saying that a book cover with blue-orange contrast contains a horrible story within. (On a side note, the worst book ever written, Twilight, *does* have a black and red cover.)

 

Final line is: is someone else's chapter. If people don't listen to your advice on color schemes, it's their call, and they obviously kept it because they liked it. Saying "Don't get one." is just going to discourage people from enjoying the army they spent loving time on.

 

 

Most of the things you've described as being cliche are cliche because they are either cool and desirable, or because they are good.

 

Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Being 'cool' is not necessarily a good thing. Cool works fine until everyone does it, at which point it becomes trite and boring. The individuality of cool is one of its greatest attractions.

 

As I (and the OP) have said - it's not that you can't use cliches. It's that everyone does, so doing it in an impressive or good way is a lot harder.

 

Are you going to take Ferrata to task for the section of the DIY Guide that says the same thing?

 

Yes, it is in this forum's mission statement to encourage creativeness and individuality. However, all of these individual factors are single factors in a larger plot or story. Having the same color scheme or plot device as another does not make the sum of the pieces "unoriginal."

 

And no, I really like Ferrata's Guide to DIY because he makes it clear that the guide is composed of "guidelines" not "dictates." Only one of you is "express[ing] a lot of vehemence."

 

He also doesn't say "Oh hey, don't do X, Y, or Z. But wait! I can do X, Y, and Z because I'm better than you."

 

I don't see anything wrong with being inspired by someone else's well composed ideas.

 

There is nothing wrong with that. There is something wrong with using those ideas without exerting any particular effort to make them unique or different.

 

To say that someone has spent "[no] particular effort" on a creative endeavor is criticism reserved for use by people like Perez Hilton and Simon Cowell. Be nicer.

 

Finally, the last five or six "guide" posts written on this forum have been needlessly condescending in an environment that's supposed to promote creativity.

 

Pointing out the trends and cliches of IA writing is hardly working against creativity.

 

Like Marshal2 Crusaders pointed out: "Cliche guides are now cliche."

 

Much of what you and certain other posters have been saying has already been said in the Guide to DIY. Point it out nicely; don't brutalize people's work.

When I saw Dark Apostle Thirst's post, I thought to myself "Wow, didn't this happen *twice* before in the past week?"

(To Dark Apostle Thirst) I like the consideration you've shown in attempting to help others, but the brevity and tone of your original guide led many to find it offensive, which was why so many made comment on your guide. Know, however, that I share almost all of the sentiments expressed in your guide (except for the demands for new color schemes), but rather am commenting on the manner in which a few people have expressed their opinions.

 

(To Octavulg) I think it's great that people are commenting and criticizing other people's work, but there are a hundred ways of doing it more nicely.

 

 

Anyways, I am getting argumentative, so I'm going to stop responding. And I sense a thread-lock coming.

 

-Angelfire

[Ferrata]

That's it. Game Over. You've lost all your lives. This thread is being closed because it is bringing nothing but venom and chaos to Liber. If I was feeling in a particularly evil mood, I could probably swing a couple of you for warnings or at least really stern PMs - but I am not going to. I think a lot of people have just got caught in the tide and are stuck defending ideas more violently then they would normally. Let it go guys, let it go.

 

As for Cliches Guides, I don't mind them in future but, take note from these lessons learnt here, make sure they are informative, well-thought out *and* presented in a non-hostile way.

 

Ferrata.