Assaulty Scouts?

[Frontline989]

For the most part I prefer a basic 5 man w/ Meltagun loadout for my scouts but if I wanted to do a close combat assaulty squad what would be the best way?

 

I'm thinking 10 scouts with 2 power weapons and mark of the wulfen. I was also considering a wolf guard but I'm not sure.

 

Is their any advantage to this over a small anti tank squad?

[Prophecy]

Definitely take the WG if you want your scouts to assault. Not only do they add an additional base attack, but they get SCCW more cost-effectively (if not cheaper, in some cases). I'm a big fan of a WG with a frost sword, but I know a lot of people who swear by powerfists.

 

As far as advantage over the 5 man melta/MotW squad (I like to stick mark in there, just in case. It's always nice to get that rend off if the melta fails, or after the tank is dead and the entire backline descends upon your poor, suicidal scouts)? Depends on what you want to do with them. They'll fulfill very different roles. 5 man with melta, you want to put them up against armor or (maybe, if you're desperate) a MC. 10 man assaulty, you're going to want to get them stuck in with the devastators or psykers in the back lines cracking off heavy weapons or mind bullets. If you can deal with the dev squad with other units in your army, stick with the tank hunters. If you have plenty of anti-tank covered, kit them out for heavy weapon hunting. Always look at how your units work with the rest of your list.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

If you include a Wolf Guard remember you forgo their "scouty" rules/abilities!

[Prophecy]

Wrong!

 

Second page of the Errata/FAQ:

 

Q. Can a Wolf Scout Pack with a Wolf Guard

Pack Leader assigned to it deploy as Infiltrators,

make a move before the game begins because of

its Scouts ability, choose to outflank or use

Behind Enemy Lines?

A. Yes, to all of the above, because the Wolf Guard

Pack Leader is not an Independent Character and

therefore the fact he does not have the Infiltrate

or Scouts ability does not preclude the squad he

has joined from using those abilities.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

That very well may be what it says, but as my knowledge says otherwise and I don't have it... Hence my comment.

[Prophecy]

No worries. It came out pretty recently. Should you be interested, the FAQ is located on GWs site:

 

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_Custom...eWolves_Jan2010

[Ullr Direfang]

That very well may be what it says, but as my knowledge says otherwise and I don't have it... Hence my comment.

 

It has been fought over many times before, but the FAQ answered the question, so they are still scouty in all ways.

 

Back to the OP:

I am going to be trying out at squad that has 10 guys, 1 PW, 1 PP, MotW, Melta gun and Melta bombs. Lots of people around here know i like scouts so they leave squads take care of them. so i want the bigger squad to survive one full turn of combat (both players) and then get to start playing with tanks and armor. i tried it with how i run them now and it didn't work so well, the big difference is 5 guys but same weapons so.... wound allocation equaled wrong guys died.

[Yeti]

I take a more middle of the road approach. My usual squad is 7 with Meltagun, 2x Power weapon plus a wolf guard with combi-melta and wolf claw. They're an absolute terror to anything on the back lines (or flanks now :lol: ). They can take on marines, vehicles and will make tau/IG shake in their boots.

[Hfran Morkai]

I take a Wolf Guard Battle Leader with Combi-melta/Frost Blade and Saga of the Hunter, I'm sure twas the intention and they would have overruled it in the FAQ. Someone tells me I can't then I'll just throw him around by himself.

 

However I run a small pack of scouts with meltabombs

[Natanael]

I dont think the überassaulty scout pack (10+WG) is a good idea, and I think that most of the time 5+WG or at most 6+WG is enough to make a mess of things. They are not intended to go toe to toe with good CC squads anyway, and their most likley targets will be objective holders or shooty squads. Putting 10 guys to that task is just a waste of points. I have tried running 2x5 w/ Meltagun and I am thinking of adding a PW to them, or a WG, just to make them a little more assaulty. They don't need it very much anyway, since they are a suicide squad in my opinion. 5 Scouts w/ MG have 4 BP and 1 melta shots, 14 attacks on the charge, and that is enough to survive and kill some against most enemies.

 

My last game against nids both squads came in and assaulted broods of termagaunts (1 each) and killed them (15 in each) over a few rounds of combat. To me, that is a good round of scouting buissness, and just how they should be played. Killing bad CC squads the enemy is saving for objective-grabbing or as a diversion. 5+WG is a force that must be dealt with, anyway.

[Ullr Direfang]

I dont think the überassaulty scout pack (10+WG) is a good idea, and I think that most of the time 5+WG or at most 6+WG is enough to make a mess of things. They are not intended to go toe to toe with good CC squads anyway, and their most likley targets will be objective holders or shooty squads. Putting 10 guys to that task is just a waste of points. I have tried running 2x5 w/ Meltagun and I am thinking of adding a PW to them, or a WG, just to make them a little more assaulty. They don't need it very much anyway, since they are a suicide squad in my opinion. 5 Scouts w/ MG have 4 BP and 1 melta shots, 14 attacks on the charge, and that is enough to survive and kill some against most enemies.

 

My last game against nids both squads came in and assaulted broods of termagaunts (1 each) and killed them (15 in each) over a few rounds of combat. To me, that is a good round of scouting buissness, and just how they should be played. Killing bad CC squads the enemy is saving for objective-grabbing or as a diversion. 5+WG is a force that must be dealt with, anyway.

 

it could be just the players i go up against but 5 guy packs don't hold up much against what i tend to find in the back field which is the only reason i am thinking about trying 10, but no WG.

[SamaNagol]

In the back field you should be finding Whirlwinds, Devastator Squads, IG Heavy Weapons Teams and Tanks.

 

6 men squads is plenty. You don't want to wipe units out, you want to hold them up and kill them by attrition.

[Valerian]

Here is my Wolf Scout unit:

 

10x Wolf Scouts (with 2x Power Weapons, 1x Mark of the Wulfen, and 1x Melta Gun).

1x attached Wolf Guard Leader (with Combi-Melta and Thunder Hammer).

1x joined Wolf Priest (with standard armament, plus Melta Bombs, and Saga of the Hunter - which allows him to tag along using the Wolf Scouts Behind Enemy Lines/Outflank Move).

 

I take the Oath that gives me Preferred Enemy against Infantry on the Wolf Priest so I can reroll all misses against Enemy infantry on the turn that I arrive and assault. If the enemy infantry that I want to get at is standing close to an Enemy tank, I can shoot the Melta Gun and Combi-Melta at the tank, then charge both units in the Assault phase. With the Thunderhammer and the 3 Power Weapons (including the Wolf Priest's), as well as the potential Rending attacks from the model with the Mark of the Wulfen, I can destroy a full enemy unit in a single turn.

 

Last time I played, I didn't even take the Wolf Priest, and only used 7 models in the Wolf Scout unit, and still destroyed two Blood Angels' Assault Squads - I made those so-called assault specialists feel like chumps.

 

There are basically two philosophies with Scouts - go small/cheap and focus on tanks. I go with the philosophy to go big/scary and give the Enemy a unit in his backfield that he cannot afford to ignore.

 

Regards,

 

V

[Prophecy]

Ooph. That's a lot of points tied up in a unit I can't really support, Val. I don't run droppods, so I go as cheap as possible. Anything I put back there I fully expect to lose. That sounds like a pretty scary thing to have hanging around your back lines though.

[Wildfire]

I've toyed with the idea of 5-7 scouts with power weapon, mark, melta, Wolf Guard with combi-melta and powerfist. Gives plenty of CC ability for stuff like dev squads, and one fairly reliable go at a tank. Giving the scouts 3 different loadouts helps preserve the important power fist on the wolf guard.

 

In general, though, I don't think scouts are really worth it in the anti-tank role they had in the last 'dex. Back when 2 plasma pistols and a melta were 86 points, they were worth it. Now, that same squad costs about 50% more. Too much, in my book.

[Natanael]

it could be just the players i go up against but 5 guy packs don't hold up much against what i tend to find in the back field which is the only reason i am thinking about trying 10, but no WG.

 

I'd say that you should rather have a WG w/ PF & Combi-Weapon then a few more scouts. It is a fine line between too little and too much. Anyway; what do you expect to find in the back field? Also dont forget that some times it is just as good to bring your scouts on a flank to stop, or at least slow down, the enemy advance there. That's what I do most of the time. 12"(6move, 6charge) is quite far anyway =D

 

Here is my Wolf Scout unit:

 

10x Wolf Scouts (with 2x Power Weapons, 1x Mark of the Wulfen, and 1x Melta Gun).

1x attached Wolf Guard Leader (with Combi-Melta and Thunder Hammer).

1x joined Wolf Priest (with standard armament, plus Melta Bombs, and Saga of the Hunter - which allows him to tag along using the Wolf Scouts Behind Enemy Lines/Outflank Move).

 

I take the Oath that gives me Preferred Enemy against Infantry on the Wolf Priest so I can reroll all misses against Enemy infantry on the turn that I arrive and assault. If the enemy infantry that I want to get at is standing close to an Enemy tank, I can shoot the Melta Gun and Combi-Melta at the tank, then charge both units in the Assault phase. With the Thunderhammer and the 3 Power Weapons (including the Wolf Priest's), as well as the potential Rending attacks from the model with the Mark of the Wulfen, I can destroy a full enemy unit in a single turn.

 

Last time I played, I didn't even take the Wolf Priest, and only used 7 models in the Wolf Scout unit, and still destroyed two Blood Angels' Assault Squads - I made those so-called assault specialists feel like chumps.

 

There are basically two philosophies with Scouts - go small/cheap and focus on tanks. I go with the philosophy to go big/scary and give the Enemy a unit in his backfield that he cannot afford to ignore.

 

Regards,

 

V

 

Pretty scary, but a large chunk of poinst in a 4+ save unit. They just dont have the staying power or cost effectiveness you find in other units, I think. Also, as SamaNagol said, wiping out the enemy in one round is not very good since it leavs you open for shooting. If they dedicate additional troops into CC, fine, but with shooting you'll be wiped out before you do much more then kill that first tank/squad, and I don't think that is a sound investment.

 

And your example against BA sound like you had a lot of luck with the dice or poor play from your enemy. Anyway: Good Job! =D

[Valerian]

Pretty scary, but a large chunk of poinst in a 4+ save unit. They just dont have the staying power or cost effectiveness you find in other units, I think.

 

It is a lot of points, but they are only a little less durable than our other units. 3+ is obviously better than 4+, but they still hold their own. As far as cost effectiveness the value of being able to walk on the table exactly where you want, two-thirds of the time, is worth a lot. They can easily make up their points the turn they arrive (especially if your opponent has a tasty target available for you to deal with when you walk on). Everything else they manage to do is just bonus. I simply consider BEL too valuable to not try to use is to it's utmost potential.

 

Also, as SamaNagol said, wiping out the enemy in one round is not very good since it leavs you open for shooting.

 

That is exactly true, and I usually try to finish off an enemy unit in his assault phase, rather than mine; I just didn't feel like getting into that discussion at the time. I don't bother with tournaments and stick to friendly games. This usually allows me to tailor the unit to achieve what I want to do with them; I just gave the example of how I max them out completely when I feel like it. The point is, however, that they'll do a lot of damage, and usually cause more casualties than they take. They can still use cover to offset problems they might get from enemy shooting.

 

As an additional point, I usually Drop Pod in 3 Grey Hunter packs which go where they need to to accomplish my objectives, which are often close enough to the enemy lines/deployment zone that the Scouts aren't exactly operating all alone and unafraid. There are other Space Wolves units that need to be dealt with, so focusing on the large unit of Wolf Scouts rampaging around the backfield isn't always an option.

 

And your example against BA sound like you had a lot of luck with the dice or poor play from your enemy. Anyway: Good Job! =D

 

The dice were good, but the BA player played it right. He had to try to take back his Objective that my Wolf Scouts had seized from his Tactical Squad or he would have lost the game. He didn't have Corbulo nearby (he was on the other side of the field) to get Furious Charge, and no Dante nearby (thanks to my Long Fangs, woohoo!) for Preferred Enemy. His only special close combat weapons were Power Weapons on his two Sergeants, so I had him completely outmatched, (I had two Power Weapons, MotW, and WGL with Power Fist)especially considering my extra attacks from Counter-Attack. He just didn't expect to get man-handled by Scouts.

 

V

[rodgambit]

I run a 13th Co foot slogging force and find assault scouts a great asset. I run 2 packs of 8 with MotW+melta. I also attached a pack leader with a combi melta+pf. Relying on dice rolls for 1 of the squads to get into position can be dicey so having 2 increases my odds that I get them where I need to cause havoc while my troops move up the board. I did a mix of chaos, sw legs/torsos with the chaos maurader bits and love the way they turned out.

[Valerian]

I run a 13th Co foot slogging force and find assault scouts a great asset. I run 2 packs of 8 with MotW+melta. I also attached a pack leader with a combi melta+pf. Relying on dice rolls for 1 of the squads to get into position can be dicey so having 2 increases my odds that I get them where I need to cause havoc while my troops move up the board. I did a mix of chaos, sw legs/torsos with the chaos maurader bits and love the way they turned out.

 

I'd run multiple Wolf Scout packs if it weren't for Elite slot competition with Wolf Guard, Dreadnoughts, and the Lone Wolf.

 

V

[Grey Mage]

For the most part I prefer a basic 5 man w/ Meltagun loadout for my scouts but if I wanted to do a close combat assaulty squad what would be the best way?

 

I'm thinking 10 scouts with 2 power weapons and mark of the wulfen. I was also considering a wolf guard but I'm not sure.

 

Is their any advantage to this over a small anti tank squad?

Dont add so much, you want Flexable scouts- after all theyre naturally assaulty.

 

MG+2x PW in a 5 man squad is a mere 115pts, and fully capable of destroying heavy support style squads, tanks, and tieing up counter assault units for a bit.

[CainTheHunter]

I'm using them with WG with TH and SB (extra shots) and I just like the look of TH more than PF, although it costs 5 points more.

[Natanael]

Pretty scary, but a large chunk of poinst in a 4+ save unit. They just dont have the staying power or cost effectiveness you find in other units, I think.

 

It is a lot of points, but they are only a little less durable than our other units. 3+ is obviously better than 4+, but they still hold their own. As far as cost effectiveness the value of being able to walk on the table exactly where you want, two-thirds of the time, is worth a lot. They can easily make up their points the turn they arrive (especially if your opponent has a tasty target available for you to deal with when you walk on). Everything else they manage to do is just bonus. I simply consider BEL too valuable to not try to use is to it's utmost potential.

 

Also, as SamaNagol said, wiping out the enemy in one round is not very good since it leavs you open for shooting.

 

That is exactly true, and I usually try to finish off an enemy unit in his assault phase, rather than mine; I just didn't feel like getting into that discussion at the time. I don't bother with tournaments and stick to friendly games. This usually allows me to tailor the unit to achieve what I want to do with them; I just gave the example of how I max them out completely when I feel like it. The point is, however, that they'll do a lot of damage, and usually cause more casualties than they take. They can still use cover to offset problems they might get from enemy shooting.

 

As an additional point, I usually Drop Pod in 3 Grey Hunter packs which go where they need to to accomplish my objectives, which are often close enough to the enemy lines/deployment zone that the Scouts aren't exactly operating all alone and unafraid. There are other Space Wolves units that need to be dealt with, so focusing on the large unit of Wolf Scouts rampaging around the backfield isn't always an option.

 

And your example against BA sound like you had a lot of luck with the dice or poor play from your enemy. Anyway: Good Job! =D

 

The dice were good, but the BA player played it right. He had to try to take back his Objective that my Wolf Scouts had seized from his Tactical Squad or he would have lost the game. He didn't have Corbulo nearby (he was on the other side of the field) to get Furious Charge, and no Dante nearby (thanks to my Long Fangs, woohoo!) for Preferred Enemy. His only special close combat weapons were Power Weapons on his two Sergeants, so I had him completely outmatched, (I had two Power Weapons, MotW, and WGL with Power Fist)especially considering my extra attacks from Counter-Attack. He just didn't expect to get man-handled by Scouts.

 

V

 

I just think they are to easy to take out with shooting, since they become very vulnerable to heavy bolters/autocannons and stuff like that. Too many times have my scouts been killed by an enemy pred half the board away.

 

And since you're podding also, It might be good. I was thinking of getting a few pods myself to use with my scouts, and I think it is a must if you run large packs of them.

[sonofwaranddeath]

Well, my question is, do you guys kit out teh left over WS w/bolters, or CCWs/pistols, or what?

[Hfran Morkai]

Well, my question is, do you guys kit out teh left over WS w/bolters, or CCWs/pistols, or what?

 

I use CCW's and pistols because I prefer getting stuck in, I probably would have kept my shotgun scouts too if we still had the option.

 

As an aside I was wondering what kits I could get hold of nice and easy meltaguns with arms for them, I'm thinking one of the guard command squads (some nice trinkets in there) do both contain a melta or is it the Cadian one only?

[Valerian]

Well, my question is, do you guys kit out teh left over WS w/bolters, or CCWs/pistols, or what?

 

Definitely CCWs and Pistols, as you are going to want to keep them in close combat as much as possible, in my opinion. If they are using Bolters to shoot, then they are vulnerable to the return fire of any enemy unit in range. If they are in close combat, however, then they are only vulnerable to the return attacks of the unit that they are Locked in combat with.

 

V