Godhead Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Just a quick question about chooser. It gives a bonus to BS when it also has LOS, but it can't be used to gain line of sight correct? Or at least work around a cover save? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191377-line-of-sight-with-chooser/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitewolfmxc Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 I dont think so as theres no lines implying the preist takes LOS directly from the bird XD Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191377-line-of-sight-with-chooser/#findComment-2270503 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkenheim Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 it only gives a bonus to the BS. LOS isn't drawn from the COTS for the priests powers. The priest would still need LOS to the target and cover saves and armour facings are taken based on the priests position. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191377-line-of-sight-with-chooser/#findComment-2270538 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldenhaller Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Interesting question tho...how does one define LoS to the chooser. Obviously it is something which is used to aid in the targeting of models with the runepriest's powers but as it's a marker and thus does not necisarilly have eyes cannot draw a LoS itself. This being the case if it is say behind a unit where it's LoS does not extend does the Runepriest therefore not get the benefits of the +1 to hit even tho both he and the marker can draw a line to the unit he is attempting to hit? ~O Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191377-line-of-sight-with-chooser/#findComment-2270577 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Dammit Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 YOur rune priest doesnt have eyes either, there painted on there. Dont go to far in this :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191377-line-of-sight-with-chooser/#findComment-2270645 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldenhaller Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 lol...true - and then there are tau drones, zoats etc etc etc... however it's the rule itself. the unit which is being targetted needs los to the marker, Los is drawn from the eyes of the model, if the marker is behind then no Los and thus no bonus... Not that I would ever advocate this but RAW is RAW is stupid ~O Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191377-line-of-sight-with-chooser/#findComment-2270661 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 lol...true - and then there are tau drones, zoats etc etc etc... however it's the rule itself. the unit which is being targetted needs los to the marker, Los is drawn from the eyes of the model, if the marker is behind then no Los and thus no bonus... Not that I would ever advocate this but RAW is RAW is stupid ~O Not stupid, actually, it makes sense. The Chooser of the Slain is (as I read it) some sort of hybrid organic/mechanical creature, typically a bird/raven (as is the case with Njal). They basically let the creature loose, it finds a perch, and the Rune Priest can look into the creature's mind (or however they do it) to see what the creature sees. For simplicity/balance, once the marker is placed/perched, it can't be moved, and can't be targeted/destroyed. If the marker so happens to have been placed on ground floor, well then clearly anything it can't see through (even other units) then the Rune Priest can't see through either if it attempts to get the +1 BS bonus. So obviously it makes sense to put the marker as high as possible if you want the maximum benefit of +1 BS and to maximize LoS. DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191377-line-of-sight-with-chooser/#findComment-2270696 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldenhaller Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 agreed - and this makes sense iof the LoS was drawn from the marker. However the rule states "should the Rune Priest make a shooting attack at a unit which has LoS to the Chooser marker, he make treat his BS as being one higher than normal". As it is the unit's LoS which is taken into account here, it means that if the unit the Rune Priest is targetting can't see it because it's facing the wrong way - the gun barrel is pointed in the wrong direction, etc then there is no bonus...which seems very odd ...and probably like they've not thought about it properly ~O Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191377-line-of-sight-with-chooser/#findComment-2270702 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 agreed - and this makes sense iof the LoS was drawn from the marker. However the rule states "should the Rune Priest make a shooting attack at a unit which has LoS to the Chooser marker, he make treat his BS as being one higher than normal". As it does this it means if the unit the Rune Priest is targetting can't see it because it's faving the wrong way - the gun barrel is pointed in the wrong direction, etc then there is no bonus...which seems very odd and probably like they've not thought about it properly ~O Is not Line of Sight assumed to be 360 for infantry in 40k? I would assume a model, and a mechanical bird or some creature still has the facility to turn it's head/body? :rolleyes: DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191377-line-of-sight-with-chooser/#findComment-2270705 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldenhaller Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 tbh I'm really not sure...it doesn't actually state it anywhere. I guess it'd come down to draw the los from the eyes...back through your own head but as you're part of your own unit it models in the same unit don't block LoS then you're golden...maybee....? *rolls eyes* ~O Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191377-line-of-sight-with-chooser/#findComment-2270727 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Dammit Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Just put a bigg eye on a stick and your all set :( Ofcourse you can turn the head of your marker, My eagle has 2 heads, so it would have a wider LOS than a other creature, thats not how this works Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191377-line-of-sight-with-chooser/#findComment-2270750 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkenheim Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 i was under the impression that all units in 40k were assumed to have 360 degree LOS, much like skirmishers in fantasy. also i dont know of any rule that states los is measured from the models eyes Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191377-line-of-sight-with-chooser/#findComment-2270760 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldenhaller Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 lol....mine perches on a sign pointing the direction someplace...can't decide if it's toward the Fang or Whoopass...shall decide one day :( I'm just waiting for someone to tell me that I don't get the bonus because their troops are faced away from the marker and therefore don't have LoS to it...which is where RAW gets silly without a decent arguement against it...other than "...REALLY?" which as we all know is cal to rationality, sense and reason. ~O Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191377-line-of-sight-with-chooser/#findComment-2270762 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Dammit Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 than just say that guy cant shoot for his gun is pointing up, and he isnt looking down the barrel of his gun, and so on and so on Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191377-line-of-sight-with-chooser/#findComment-2270873 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldenhaller Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 I know I know...it's dumb. But the rules are arbitary dealing with which parts of the imobile body of a plastic minature can move and which can't. Los is drawn from the eyes and this is effectivly where the shot comes from. It's daft and I know it is and it seems unlikely...however I don't put it past the more bloody minded players out there. ~O Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191377-line-of-sight-with-chooser/#findComment-2270883 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulfurious Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 I'm curious. Am I overlooking a more significant advantage to the +1BS for the Rune Priest? If I remember correctly he can take a bolter, stormbolter, bolt pistol, or plasma pistol. Considering the psychic shooting attacks that we have, I don't see myself ever using a gun. It would be nice if the added BS was passed along to the squad though. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191377-line-of-sight-with-chooser/#findComment-2270896 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 I'm curious. Am I overlooking a more significant advantage to the +1BS for the Rune Priest? If I remember correctly he can take a bolter, stormbolter, bolt pistol, or plasma pistol. Considering the psychic shooting attacks that we have, I don't see myself ever using a gun. It would be nice if the added BS was passed along to the squad though. The improved BS also applies to those psychic powers that require a To-Hit roll (Living Lightning or the Freki/Greki shooting one..the name of which escapes me). If they're going to be that finicky about specifically declaring that the eyes are where LoS is drawn from, then enforce it. In every. Single. Instance. When he shoots, have him check the LoS for each and every single model. Likewise, tanks without targeters for the weapons theoretically can't see either and so can't fire. DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191377-line-of-sight-with-chooser/#findComment-2270905 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max_Dammit Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 Id just pack up my stuff and walk away Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191377-line-of-sight-with-chooser/#findComment-2270910 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldenhaller Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 lol...good point :tu: ~O Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191377-line-of-sight-with-chooser/#findComment-2270915 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulfurious Posted February 2, 2010 Share Posted February 2, 2010 I'm curious. Am I overlooking a more significant advantage to the +1BS for the Rune Priest? If I remember correctly he can take a bolter, stormbolter, bolt pistol, or plasma pistol. Considering the psychic shooting attacks that we have, I don't see myself ever using a gun. It would be nice if the added BS was passed along to the squad though. The improved BS also applies to those psychic powers that require a To-Hit roll (Living Lightning or the Freki/Greki shooting one..the name of which escapes me). DV8 Yea, I feel stupid. For some reason I forgot that you still have to roll to hit with those powers. I've been playing right, just not thinking right. I've been rolling to hit with my Living lightning but it never occurred to me that I'd get the +1BS in those situations. Thanks. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191377-line-of-sight-with-chooser/#findComment-2270923 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thylacine Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Something for you to remember if your making up a Chooser of the Slain model. "This marker must be smaller than the Rune Priest model and cannot be destroyed." You can place the CotS model on a some scenery to gain height for LoS purposes but you can't model the CotS on a rod/wire to make it higher than the RP model. I saw a nice cyber-raven on a long clear rod that looked impressive, but sadly I had to point out to the owner that the model was way too tall. Then I saw his RP modeled on a scenic base with a banner pole attached to the back of the RP which measured in at 3 1/4", his CotS model measured 3 1/16" and when placed on some scenery gives LoS to most units! It will be interesting to see how TO's rule on this at a tournament as it is within the rules but seems to be pushing them, then again I have seen other models on large bases for similar purposes and they have been allowed. (extra long barrels on IG tanks to give longer range) With the 'True LoS' rules we use now it seems to be a +/- thing, yes you can see more but more can see you! Thoughts gentlemen? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191377-line-of-sight-with-chooser/#findComment-2271489 Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkenheim Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 if the model looked cool and was in keeping with the themes/style of their army i wouldnt care. you still have LOS to units behind others or else you would never be able to shoot them so its not really much of an issue to me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191377-line-of-sight-with-chooser/#findComment-2271496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DV8 Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Aye and giving +1 BS to only that one model in the entire army hardly seems like the most powerful or game breaking item. DV8 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191377-line-of-sight-with-chooser/#findComment-2271524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitewolfmxc Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 Something for you to remember if your making up a Chooser of the Slain model. "This marker must be smaller than the Rune Priest model and cannot be destroyed." You can place the CotS model on a some scenery to gain height for LoS purposes but you can't model the CotS on a rod/wire to make it higher than the RP model. I saw a nice cyber-raven on a long clear rod that looked impressive, but sadly I had to point out to the owner that the model was way too tall. Then I saw his RP modeled on a scenic base with a banner pole attached to the back of the RP which measured in at 3 1/4", his CotS model measured 3 1/16" and when placed on some scenery gives LoS to most units! It will be interesting to see how TO's rule on this at a tournament as it is within the rules but seems to be pushing them, then again I have seen other models on large bases for similar purposes and they have been allowed. (extra long barrels on IG tanks to give longer range) With the 'True LoS' rules we use now it seems to be a +/- thing, yes you can see more but more can see you! Thoughts gentlemen? I think by Small it means in Size as in 3 dimesion , not taller or shorter i modeled mine on a city ruine piller which is twice as tall as the priest and the bird is just sitting and watching XD and hack no ones complainning to that. and heck giving +1BS is hardly game breaking to anyone for that one model in your army lol so if i saw others have something like that which is not entirely redicilous id let them Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191377-line-of-sight-with-chooser/#findComment-2271558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thylacine Posted February 3, 2010 Share Posted February 3, 2010 whitewolfmxc. Hows things down south? You need to come up to Brisbane for a tournament and see how petty and mean-spirited some of the SW haters can be! Your CotS modeled on the old plastic gothic ruins would definitely not fly if it is a hairs width over the size of the RP! i modeled mine on a city ruine piller which is twice as tall as the priest and the bird is just sitting and watching XD and hack no ones complainning to that. and heck giving +1BS is hardly game breaking to anyone for that one model in your army lol so if i saw others have something like that which is not entirely redicilous id let them Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/191377-line-of-sight-with-chooser/#findComment-2272088 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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