Scout advice

[Vanor]

I have 50 points to spend and am looking for a way to boost the usefulness of a scout squad.

 

Right now I have a 5 man squad with 4 bolters and a heavy bolter in my army.

 

As I see it I have 3 options and I'm not sure which one will give me the biggest bang for the buck.

 

1) Sgt Telion.

2) A razorback with TL Heavy Bolter and a Storm bolter

3) 3 more scouts, 2 with sniper rifles and 1 with a missile launcher.

 

All 3 seem like they could be good additions, Telion adding a fair amount of fire power and buffs to the scouts. Likewise more scouts would add more wounds to the squad. The ML and snipers would add a fair amount of punch.

 

But both options mean that the scouts don't have a transport, which the razorback would offer plus the firepower it brings.

 

I'm leaning towards the razorback as it seems to offer both firepower and mobility, something the other two options don't.

[thade]

Telion is great for two reasons.

Eye of Vengence: He fires two times with his Rending/Pinning Weapon and you get to allocate the wounds he scores...which means with very good probability you can force any model buried in a unit to make a save.

Voice of Experience: Give that Scout missile launcher, hellfire bolter, or sniper rifle a BS6 for a turn! When you *really* have to give it to a Wraithlord. ;)

 

Recall that Scouts cannot take a dedicated transport...so unless some other unit takes the Razorback for them, they can't have it (and they can't start embarked in it besides).

 

More scouts is a fine idea, but don't mix your sniper rifles with your bolters/shotguns. Throw a hellfire bolter in there...or the ML.

[Vanor]

Recall that Scouts cannot take a dedicated transport...

 

Well there goes that idea then. I guess I just assumed they could take a dedicated transport. I seem to remember the rules saying that scouts (in the generic sense not SM scouts) that had a dedicated transport could still infiltrate.

 

But I guess that kills that option.

[Tech Brother Torgo]

Of course you could add a huge boost to mobility by mounting them on a land speeder storm for 50 points. Unfortunately this isn't a dedicated transport either, so it will eat a FA slot, but it can really help to get them to the right place at the right time. If you go this route, I would probably suggest dropping the heavy bolter (can't fire when the storm is moving) and adding the heavy flamer option to the LSS.

[thade]

Of course you could add a huge boost to mobility by mounting them on a land speeder storm for 50 points. Unfortunately this isn't a dedicated transport either, so it will eat a FA slot, but it can really help to get them to the right place at the right time. If you go this route, I would probably suggest dropping the heavy bolter (can't fire when the storm is moving) and adding the heavy flamer option to the LSS.

...why can't you fire the HB when the storm is moving? Vehicles don't fall under the "Heavy Weapon" rule; their firing rules in movement are different. <3 Storms are really useful for a scout-assault squad with the -Ld and the Heavy Flamer loadout, in any case.

 

Hang in there; Great Crusade will eventually weigh in and solve all for you. =)

[ShinyRhino]

Honestly, none of those options really work with your current scout setup. Here's why:

 

Telion has a Heavy 2 Stalker Boltgun (with NO OTHER fire mode), Eye of Vengeance, and Voice of Experience. Your scouts are armed with bolters and a heavy bolter. The Stalker requires you to not move to fire it, which clashes with the mobility of that bolter squad. Eye of Vengeance will only be useful if you're standing still, though it is Telion's best asset here. Voice of Experience is pointless when firing a boltgun. A bolter that hits on a 2+/6+ is...silly. Sure, you could use it to make the heavy bolter shots hit, but if you're firing that, why not fire the Stalker instead of using Voice?

 

Thade already pointed out that Scouts cannot take a dedicated transport.

 

Buying additional bodies for the squad is your best option, but not with that armament. First, a scout squad may only have ONE heavy weapon, not two. So you have to choose between missile launcher and heavy bolter. Second, you don't want to mix sniper rifles in with bolters. Snipers will not be able to fire if you move, and bolters don't have the range of snipers.

You can mix CCW/BP, Shotgun, and Bolter scouts to play wound allocation games in some sort of Black Templar Lite style, but never mix a bunch of Heavy weapons with a bunch of assault or rapid fire weapons. You waste too much shooting.

 

I'd recommend you buy more like-armed bodies for your squad in the form of three more bolter Scouts, and a meltabomb for your sergeant. Use them as an infiltrating or outflanking shock force for hitting soft targets on the flanks, or deployment denial.

[ShinyRhino]

Of course you could add a huge boost to mobility by mounting them on a land speeder storm for 50 points. Unfortunately this isn't a dedicated transport either, so it will eat a FA slot, but it can really help to get them to the right place at the right time. If you go this route, I would probably suggest dropping the heavy bolter (can't fire when the storm is moving) and adding the heavy flamer option to the LSS.

...why can't you fire the HB when the storm is moving? Vehicles don't fall under the "Heavy Weapon" rule; their firing rules in movement are different. <3 Storms are really useful for a scout-assault squad with the -Ld and the Heavy Flamer loadout, in any case.

 

Hang in there; Great Crusade will eventually weigh in and solve all for you. =)

 

Because the Storm isn't doing the firing, the Scouts are. Passengers in a moving transport msut still abide by their own rules for shooting. A tac squad in a Rhino that moved cannot fire a heavy weapon that turn.

[Tech Brother Torgo]

Because the Storm isn't doing the firing, the Scouts are. Passengers in a moving transport msut still abide by their own rules for shooting. A tac squad in a Rhino that moved cannot fire a heavy weapon that turn.

 

Exactly.

 

I'd have to agree with ShinyRhino here about the mobility issue. If you want mobile scouts the LSS with either BP/CCW or shotguns is your best bet, otherwise add more bolters and walk.

[Vanor]

First off, Thanks and man do I love these forms. Everyone here is very quick to answer and gives great advice. ;)

 

I think I'll go with the more bolters option and drop the heavy bolter completely. That lets me add 4 more scouts for a total of 9 with a melta bomb for the sgt. Then use them as a shock troop as was suggested by Brother ShinyRhino.

 

I also apparently need to start reading my codex a bit closer and not assume stuff like being able to give scouts a dedicated transport. :)

[thade]

Because the Storm isn't doing the firing, the Scouts are. Passengers in a moving transport msut still abide by their own rules for shooting. A tac squad in a Rhino that moved cannot fire a heavy weapon that turn.

 

Exactly.

 

I'd have to agree with ShinyRhino here about the mobility issue. If you want mobile scouts the LSS with either BP/CCW or shotguns is your best bet, otherwise add more bolters and walk.

ooooh oh oh oh sorry, I was confused. I was thinking of the HB on the standard speeder; didn't understand we were talking about the unit's HB. My bad. <_<

[greatcrusade08]

Seems i arrive to the party a little late :P

 

Shiny rhino had everything just about covered, although i have to ask in what context are you going to use these scouts.

The reason i ask is becuase bolter scouts are a lite version of tac marines and there is very little difference in cost, IMO scouts are best used as either snipers or ccws (with shotties mixed in).

the LSS opens up alot more options including a dual HB firing platform and heavy flamer/combi-flamer objective taker.

ive even had a MM LSS take down a monolith!

 

Name your poison and the scouts can do it, but bolter scouts are a little meh IMO.

[Vanor]

The reason i ask is becuase bolter scouts are a lite version of tac marines and there is very little difference in cost

 

To be honest they're filler mostly.

 

I have the AoBR set and the SM Battleforce set, which includes 5 scouts. I am going to buy 2 razorbacks and a vindicator, and between those 3 tanks and the two sets I'm about 140 points shy of 1,500 army. So the scouts are mostly just used as filler until I can aforde to buy something better to spend that 140 points on.

 

So it more or less comes down to using scouts, or not fielding a 1500 army which seems to be the standard at my LGS.

 

I see your point about them being tac marines lite, which is to a point how I planed on using them. Infiltrate them, and use them to harass or quickly capture an objective and hold it until I can reinforce the scouts.

 

I don't really mind spending $20 for another 5 scouts even if they're only a temp fill in type unit.

[Demoulius]

well noone has mentioned this (and im not sure if its fits into your army) but ive had some great experience with close combat scouts :) they are cheap, expandable and have the same hit/wound ratio as full blooded marines. though granted, your opponents hit you more easily and they die faster...but hey, like i said they are cheap ;)

 

add in a powerfist and youve got a cheap expandable powerfist that you can annoy your opponent with. if he doesent shoot them and that powerfist gets into contact with something you might just be a thorn in his side ;) (well that and theyre scoring, so aside from contesting you might get lucky with an outflanking unit of scouts as well, cant afford to leave those scouts unmolested snatching objectives now can they? ;))

[Vanor]

well noone has mentioned this (and im not sure if its fits into your army) but ive had some great experience with close combat scouts ;)

 

CC scouts just don't seem real fluffy for me, at least not for Blood Ravens company.

 

And actually I think I'm going to end up going a whole different way with my list and drop the scouts completely and replace them with a Librarian and a few other upgrades to the rest of my troops.

 

But thanks for the advice and I can see where CC scouts could be a nice addition, a power fist and shotguns could make for a decent CC unit.