Ranged HQ's

[LardO'Blood]

Hey guys, I'm trying to find an HQ to use with a tactical squad that can do the following:

1) Take the lascannon shots

2) Dish out better then average firepower

3) Upgrade or enhance the firepower of the tactical marines

I have come down to Lysander (2/3 of criteria) any suggestions?

[ShinyRhino]

Lysander about does it. You just have to realize that he totally screws the squad over on transport. He can't fit in anything but a Land Raider or a Drop Pod. So, the squad will either be hanging out inside a Land Raider and not shooting, or staying in one spot.

 

No other HQ meets all of your criteria.

 

Calgar can take S8+ hits and survive, but he doesn't do the other ones.

 

A generic Captain or Chapter Master can put out meager firepower if armed with a bolter with hellfire rounds, and an Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, but neither will boost the tactical squad.

 

Cato Sicarius can give the tactical squad a special rule, but adds no firepower himself, and cannot take a S8 shot and live.

 

The problem is that nowadays, Marine HQ choices are really geared towards close combat. None of the available options can "do it all".

[Magua]

1) Take the lascannon shots

 

The cheapest way to take a lascannon shot is with a marine. Given that your only Eternal Warriors are 200 to 265 pts, you could buy 10 more ablative wounds with points to spare instead.

 

2) Dish out better then average firepower

 

Define average. "Better than average Tactical Marine firepower" is different than "Better than average Predator firepower".

 

3) Upgrade or enhance the firepower of the tactical marines

 

Define upgrade of enhance.

 

You use Lysander as an example. Let's assume you have a 10 marine squad, and you don't take a heavy or special weapon, and you've got a MEQ target in rapid fire range:

Normal: 20 shots, 13.33 hit, 6.66 wound, 2.22 are unsaved.

Lysander: 20 shots, 17.77 hit, 8.88 wound, 2.96 are unsaved.

That's 0.74 more MEQ a turn, in a best case scenario. However, if you had taken another tactical squad, that would be another 2.22 unsaved wounds...

 

I guess the question here is, why do you want to do these things? Or, what do you hope to achieve by buffing a tactical squad?

 

If you're looking to build a really shoot army and want an HQ who can shoot more than 24", your only choice, really, is the Master of the Forge + Conversion Beamer. No other loadout will allow your HQ to shoot more than 24", and even then, your 24" will either be bolter or combi-weapon shots.

[Mjolniir]

if you're just going for ranged hq, dont forget you can dual wield combi-weapons. besides looking badass, its perfectly legal. so flame, melta, hell-fire, and grenade your way to victory if you feel like it.

 

you can only fire 1 at a time, so once you've used one combi-weapon it becomes dead weight.

[Xeonic]

The best ranged HQ is a MoTF with a conversion beamer, even at worst, close range it's an S6 shot. 42-72" it's total murder vs anything. The only cheap hq that has a reasonable chance of taking a lascannon shot is a basic captain with a storm shield. He'll still be instant death'd if he fails his save, so it's actually about as cheap as the storm shield to just take the shot on a normal marine. The only two HQ that really boost shooting are lysander(only bolter weapons) and vulkan(and only meltaguns and flamers, but he has a TL heavy flamer of his own), and of the two Lysander has Eternal Warrior and could take a lascannon shot on a 3+ invuln Calgar could also take lascannon shots due to Eternal warrior, but he's only got a 4+ invuln. Calgar has an AP2 storm bolter that's reasonably respectable shooting. All the named HQs are a lot happier in assault than shooting.

 

A basic captain with a combi and aux grenade launcher+hellfire bolts can put out a respectable amount of firepower too(2 S7AP2 or one S8AP1 shot plus a S6 AP4 krak grenade shot, followed by vollies with bolts that wound on a 2+ and more S6 krak grenades), though I wouldn't go taking lascannon shots on him, and kitting him out this way will cost 135 pts vs a MoTF with conversion beamer costing 120(and being really quite respectable at range).

 

I'm not sure in what situation I'd rather take an AP2 S9 hit on an expensive HQ rather than a 16 pt marine, ever.

[Demoulius]

not sure if hellfire rounds work on stormbolters (dont think they do) but otherwise a stormbolter with aux gren launcher adds pretty good ranged firepower (imho anyway) S6 ranged shots hitting on 2's? yes please! shooting attacks that wound on 2+'s? yes please! :D sure alot of things get armour saves against it but 1 model that can fire 3 attacks that will probably wound the target (even if its a MC?) that sounds pretty strong to me :)

[Xeonic]

The wargear entry for hellfire rounds states that it replaces the models' "boltgun" profile with the hellfire profile of 24" SX AP5, Rapidfire, Poisoned 2+, so since a storm bolter isn't a boltgun, I'd say no. The same thought crossed my mind at some point, but unfortunately it won't work due to the wording used. If that weren't enough it's noted below the entry that hellfire rounds can only be used in a boltgun. Note that hellfire rounds work with a combi because a combi -is- a boltgun (with an attached single shot melta, plasmagun, or flamer).

[Fintan]

Nice idea really but I wouldn't try it personally, HQ's are geared towards close combat to the extent that gearing them towards being a ranged asset would actually be a little unfluffy!

[Tech Brother Torgo]

One possibility could be a librarian, although there are better ways to use them than sitting with a tactical squad. If you want him cheap, then 100 points will get you one capable of either using force dome for improved squad survivability or either avenger for firepower or null zone to improve the bolters against oddball units with high invulnerable saves but little armor (looking at you daemons!).

 

Alternatively if you have points to spare you could put him in terminator armor (possible adding a storm shield) and give him vortex of doom for some nice killy S10 AP1 firepower on the move. Epistolary is probably points overkill though.

[DerekLee688]

Why not run a Librarian in a Tac squad? The only problem I see is that you have limited choices to run him in. With a full 10 man squad you're either in a drop pod, or in a landraider. Then I say put him in Termy armor and have him+full tac squad hop out of the LR and Vortex/double tap whatever you want. The question is would you rather have that than a Land Raider with Hammernators. On the plus side you got your HQ and a Troop choice that you manditory have to have in your army anyway.

 

Something you should consider for a range HQ to hange with Tacticals is a bike squad with a Librarian. Bikes have the same stats as tac's AND +1Toughness. They get to move 12" and still fire their bolters, able to get two special weapons plus one heavy, and the Librarian can use vortex of doom on the move.

[Tech Brother Torgo]

My preference for other squads to use with the librarian is partially the delivery method you bring up. I think a LR is better utilized by an assault based squad than tacticals, and you can't make use of the rhino with a full squad which causes them to loose all the freebies that make them semi-worthwhile.

 

In smaller points games (500 - 1000) I like to run a libby with combat squadded tacs in a razorback since he can make an impact at that scale, but for larger ones I'd much prefer to have him accompany a 9 man sternguard in a rhino or assault termies in a LR.

[Brother Xeones]

Hmmm... that's a tough order.

 

1. A Librarian with terminator armor and a stormshield could fulfill rolls 1) and 2) if you give him a decent shooting power. But termie armor doesn't mesh well with the tacs.

2. A Master of the Forge with or without a 'beamer is your best option at fullfilling 2) but doesn't have any means at fulfilling 1) or 3).

3. A Captain/Master could take a Las shot either with the halo or with a SS, and could sort of fulfill 2) if given a plasma pistol or combi-weapon, but SS and combi is a wierd combo.

4. Lysander is great at 1) and is really the only character that can realistically fulfill 3) but has absolutly no way to fulfill 2)

 

I'd submit that Cassius is actually one of the better options available to you. He can take a lascannon shot with his T6 and 4++ save --not to mention FNP for non-AP1/AP2 weapons . He can dish out decent firepower with his master-crafted combi-flamer w/ hellfire rounds. And, while he can't enhance the squad's firepower, he can enhance their CC potential with Litergies of Battle, not to mention 3-4 power weapon attacks. He's also WAY cheaper than any other option above.