Blood Claws VS Termis...question!

[hyjacked]

So I bring you here today to ask a question about my Space Wolves . . .

 

I can not decided whether or not to take a full squad of 15 Blood Claws with Ragnar in a LR Crusader (730pts) or with Logan (760pts).

 

With Ragnar I can get additional attacks when charging, which could be up to 75 attacks total, and that's just the Blood Claws, and I could use his Furious Charge (War Howl) special rule to make them strength and initiative 5! That's almost certain death...

 

With Logan I could use his preferred enemy special rule and his awesome attacks and Living Legend, which would be 90 attacks! He is quite expensive though...

 

It is either between those two options or the third which would be 5 terminators and Logan, which would almost equal the same amount of points, yet not as effective....

 

Thoughts anyone? All is welcomed, thanks!

[JCarter]

How many points are you running? That's well over a third of a 2000-point army. Do you have enough left for support and enough troops to hold objectives? What kind of enemy unit do you feel needs 75 to 90 attacks on it? Is this expensive overkill better invested in more units that could assault two different targets? I think you should be considering these questions?

[hyjacked]

Yes, 2000 points. you are right I guess, it just sounds so tempting!

[TheLastHuzzah]

Hyjacked,

 

Of course 75 possible attacks is freaking cool, but there is a fine line between what you want and what you need.

 

Sure the 15 + rags + crusader is awesome, but how often will you need that many attacks? I would propose, with the exception of the tin can armor that is a rhino; Rags+9 BC in a rhino is all that you need to wipe a squad off the board.

 

I'm no mathhammer expert, but if we compare what Rags + 9 BC can do with Rags +15, I think you'll see that 320 odd points for the extra 5 BC + crusader isn't all that necessary:

 

Against 10 MEQ (estimates rounding off in my head, i don't have the dedication to math it out). Assume they're getting the charge:

 

Ragnar kills 4

9 BC (let's assume we get +2 attacks)- 4 power weapon, 32 normal attacks

16+2 PW hit, 12 of these will wound (S5), for arguments sake 1 of those will be unsaveable (PW), 4 additional marines will die due to failed saving throws.

 

Before the opposing marines even get to attack, the squad is down to 1 model. The last model standing could easily die to the number of wounds inflicted from "fearless", and your squad is open to all kinds of enemy firepower the next turn. Now if you used those extra 5 BC, you are definitely wiping out the other marine squad and definitely taking an entire round of shooting before you can do anything else.

 

I'm not a fan of "all eggs in one basket" units, if you come up against the right (wrong) army list, that unit is toast. I'd personally like to spread the pain I can cause out. The entirety of my post was taking into consideration "normal" sized games, 1000-2500 points. I have never played apoc to have much of a say one way or the other if a unit like this would be useful.

 

-Huzzah

 

Edit: I really ought to pay more attention to grammar after I've had some tasty alcoholic beverages.

[Lumdin]

One key factor is with the LRC you are getting Roughly 20" charge range.

 

12" move with LRC (shoot 1 weapon with Machine spirit, usually TL assault cannon to soften up target) 2" disembark from LRC then 6" charge

 

where in a rhino you can't assault from the rhino unless you disembark before it moves. so you dismebark move 6" charge 6"

 

 

But it all depends how you play.

 

I usually run ragnar, 10 grey hunters, and WG in PA and thunder hammer

 

My 2 cents

[Quillen]

I use the crap out of that build. Except it's Grey hunters. I use Ragnar, but he dies quit often. I can't make those 4+ invuln rolls. Still he almost always is the winning factor in the game. Killing way above his points in the end.

 

And indeed a crusader makes this squad a death machine. Getting where you want when you want is a huge edge.

 

I have used Logan 2 times and he did fine because he is so freaking hard to kill and can use his weapon as a power fist. So he can deal with monstrous creatures.

 

So in the end it's your personal call. Both work amazingly well. I usually get a charge on 2 sqauds at once and spank both pretty easy. Now Logan can not consolidate because of the term armor. Rag can so you can move a little back or forward or scatter out a little bit to make template weapons less effective. That said Logan is usually still there. He is a power house and a walking tank to boot.

[hyjacked]

Well would you think just using a Wolf Lord to lead the claws would be more effective? It would save a ton of points, and he could add some nasty attacks as well.

[SamaNagol]

Furious Charge on a huge unit of Blood Claws is PRICELESS. It's even better than Preferred Enemy. Or.... you could just get both by throwing in a 100pt basic Wolf Priest into the mix. Rude not to.

[KeithGatchalian]

So in the end it's your personal call. Both work amazingly well. I usually get a charge on 2 sqauds at once and spank both pretty easy. Now Logan can not consolidate because of the term armor. Rag can so you can move a little back or forward or scatter out a little bit to make template weapons less effective. That said Logan is usually still there. He is a power house and a walking tank to boot.

 

 

Actually Logan can consolidate. He can also make a massacre roll. What he can't do is make a Sweeping Advance roll.