Destroy the Death Guard? Just use Cadians....

[The 13th Goat]

The new Guard book is out, and while all well and sound it does have a major issue. For those not in the know, its essentially Death Guard verses Imperial Guard on a destroyed shrine world, and includes our favourite walking hornet nest, Typhus. However, after reading it i have one question:

 

"How the hell did the Guard kill all those Marines?"

 

I mean, not giving to much away, the book often described the usual dead piles of Guard littering the feilds. But intermingled with that are tons of dead plague marines. Whats more, they almost to the man day off page, with the exception of a dreadnuaght who is killed by a Kariskin and a Sargent. And thats the same sargent that killed off page and one armed a Thousand Sons Terminator (meaning sorcerer) in hand to hand.

 

Seriously, how ridiculous have the guards standards become as they apparently now are tougher than space marines that almost cannot be killed?

[Legatus]

Question: "What happens to a Pague Marine when you shoot it with a battle cannon?"

 

Answer: "The same that's happening to everything else!"

[Possessed Marine]

what they don't tell you in the book is that there's literally 5,964 guardsmen for every one Plague Marine, and the sergeant that destroyed the dred... was riding on top of a baneblade :)

[BaconMakinWeedeater]

Imperial propaganda. That is all.

[The 13th Goat]

Imperial propaganda. That is all.

 

Of course. They Plague Marines didn't die. They just got tired and lay down for a bit. The reports weren't accurate at all! :)

[saintevil]

Imperial propaganda. That is all.

I agree with that. Or its an Inquisitorial conspiracy and the DG were actually nids that the inquisitor put in looted armour. To up the morale of the seeming billions.

[The 13th Goat]

That, or the Cadians, in their infinate struggle with Chaos have found Nurgles weakness.......... soap and kleenex!

[Ashe Darke]

The 'dead' Death Guard were just sleeping. Sure their bodies were scattered on the floor but they were just resting, they are fat after all.

 

That said I did play a silly game with my mate a while ago Guard vs DG, no tanks, no heavies, HQ and troops only. All foot slogging and the DG didn't do to well to be honest.

[A D-B]

The new Guard book is out, and while all well and sound it does have a major issue. For those not in the know, its essentially Death Guard verses Imperial Guard on a destroyed shrine world, and includes our favourite walking hornet nest, Typhus. However, after reading it i have one question:

 

"How the hell did the Guard kill all those Marines?"

 

They didn't. Throughout Cadian Blood, the Cadians barely cross paths with the Death Guard, apart from in instances where the Death Guard either lay waste to them and their vehicles, or it's dozens and dozens of Guardsmen against one or two Death Guard among cultists. The first time they meet a single Death Guard, Thade has 10 other guys with him, a bolt pistol, a guy with a plasma gun and a sanctioned psyker - and they still run. Astartes are terrifying. Traitor Astartes - especially ones that chase you - even more terrifying.

 

Also, until the Herald arrives, there simply aren't very many Death Guard on the shrineworld. All of the battles are against plague-slain and the Remnant, with the rare exception of the occasional Death Guard Astartes showing up.

 

I mean, not giving to much away, the book often described the usual dead piles of Guard littering the feilds. But intermingled with that are tons of dead plague marines. Whats more, they almost to the man day off page, with the exception of a dreadnuaght who is killed by a Kariskin and a Sargent.

 

Negatory. A dreadnought that has just been pounded by the autocannons of an elite Sentinel squadron for a few minutes, while now falling apart and on the edge of destruction, is at last killed by two people publically finishing it off. A method of restoring morale, albeit a crazy one.

 

 

And thats the same sargent that killed off page and one armed a Thousand Sons Terminator (meaning sorcerer) in hand to hand.

 

Hm. Don't recall that happening. Firstly, no offence, but you have to wonder how thoroughly you read it, when you describe the main character as a sergeant (twice), when he was (pretty famously) a decorated Warden-Captain and his rank was used constantly. Incidentally, I think it was actually a flashback scene with 25-50 (50 witnesses according to the propaganda, 25 soldiers in the flashback) Cadians in a tunnel against a single normal Thousand Son, who is described as armed only with a bolter. There's no record of who else died (but let's be obvious, it was a fragmentary flashback, and the Guard do nothing but die in droves throughout the book, so of course loads died), and even the main character lost an arm after barely putting up a fight at all. That's the point. He goes down like any human would. But his men report it as him "duelling" the Traitor Astartes, because Thade is a hero to them, and it was brave of him even to try to defend those evacuation tunnels.

 

Not sure where you got the sorcerer or the Terminator thing from, though. No mention of sorcery or Terminator armour - and it's stated in the text that the fight was with his entire command platoon.

 

One of Thade's constant struggles is to deal with that his men keep attributing all of these great things to him, all as part of the fact he earned the Ward of Cadia (which he thinks is undeserved) and the Imperial Propaganda behind it. I thought that was pretty clear, in the reports of his superior officers telling him to suck it up and accept the awards on behalf of his men, to inspire them, and the fact that his men constantly break the rules to keep Thade safe, even when he makes mistakes. The book has at least 2 major battle sequences where Thade does very little, and is reported to have all the credit - again, Imperial propaganda, and clearly stated as being propaganda in future references.

 

 

Seriously, how ridiculous have the guards standards become as they apparently now are tougher than space marines that almost cannot be killed?

 

No idea. If I'd read that anywhere, I'd agree that it sucked, too.

[Spacefrisian]

Imperial guard won because they changed their Lasguns for Lascannons.

[Walter Payton]

I can't pretend to be impartial on this but:

 

FOR CADIAAA!

[wizard12]

I have to agree with A D-B here. The guard bearly crossed paths, the only times they met more than 10 was during the battle when there was the dreadnought and even then, it was about a dreadnought, 20 death guard +remenet and plague slain against 300+ (relitivly) veteran guardsmen with sentenal support.

[The 13th Goat]

Assuming i just got pwned by who i think i have (A D-B being a certain author of a certain book..) then i do want to make something very clear; i really did like the book, i though it was a great read and it dealt with Plague Marines in an interesting way.

 

Perhaps i should have a re read of the book to expand my understanding of it, as i did tear through it in a day, but i still found it slighlty unusual that most of the DG died off page? Perhaps if their had been death scenes for at least a few then it may have felt a little less... jarring i think. I know he had a ten man team, but it went from them running to back in the command room reporting on what happened. It would be like during the Ciaphus Cain series, if he saw a Traitor Astartes they would explain the luck or tactic used to put him down.

 

 

Again, i stress this is a great book, and i am even more suprised and thankful the author actually got in on this thread. It was by no means a slating of your work, just an opinion of your writing style albiet leaning more towards the common joke that Black Libary Guard seem to slaughter everything that gets in their way, including Marines.

[A D-B]

Again, i stress this is a great book, and i am even more suprised and thankful the author actually got in on this thread. It was by no means a slating of your work, just an opinion of your writing style albiet leaning more towards the common joke that Black Libary Guard seem to slaughter everything that gets in their way, including Marines.

 

Dude, just for future reference, you can totally slate my work. I hope you don't ever want to, but I'm aware that everyone's got different tastes and enjoys/expects different things. One of the dangers of accepting a Black Library coimmission (similar to Star Wars, Star Trek, or whatever other license) is that no readers see the universe in exactly the same way - including the guy or girl doing the writing. Some people will always prefer a different theme, or different take on events, or expected something else, or whatever. That said, there's that old maxim: "You can't please everyone all the time, but you should aim to please most people most of the time."

 

Linked to that, you have the divide between convincing, active protagonists in a progressive story (they have to do things, and usually succeed), and the established canon that is - shall we say - "lethal" to heroes and protagonists of all kinds. That's what's cool about the setting, after all. The darkness and stagnation. A good writer who is also a 40K fan should be able to balance those fairly easily.

 

I'm glad you liked it overall, and trust me, the invincible Guard thing is a subject close to my heart, too. Hate, hate, hate it. I've even nagged Dan about it (when I was finally brave enough to talk casually to him), when a handful of Ghosts whack those Chaos Marines in Traitor General. And Cadian Blood, on the surface, has scenes where it looks like the same sort of badassery happens. This time, though? When people just joke "Uh... it's propaganda", for once it actually is.

 

I'm not bouncing in to rage and defend Black Library as a whole. I like about 5-10% of their books, the same way I like about 5-10% of all the Sci-Fi and Fantasy I read. I only bounced in 'cuz I've lurked here for like 3+ years, and I finally made a handle where I didn't lose the password. Seemed a decent topic to break my posting cherry.

[Walter Payton]

Oh. My. God. It is really you. Three things: One: You should totally comment on people's Liber Comminiscor articles. That would be awesome! Two: I completely agree about the Traitor General thing. I especially like Gaunt's little mental soliloquy 'A handful of these men can destroy divisions of guard'. But not, it seems, seventeen Ghosts and some unarmoured savages armed with bows marked: 'If found, please return to Chewbacca, Kashykk, KS 52 9RD'

 

Three: Picked up the BL free catalogue in my local GW today. I am definetely buying Soul Hunter.

[Cale]

I didn't read your book, A D-B, so I can't comment on whether you really portrayed the Guard as way more hard core than they should be (as alleged) but I do think it's awesome that you took the time to post in a thread about your book. I haven't read a 40k book in my life (I tried once, got about 20 pages in and decided that I couldn't afford to lose any more brain cells to that pile of excrement) but I might just go out and pick up yours. Just because you posted here.

 

Kudos to you.

[Ashe Darke]

Which one was it Cale? Some are aweful, some take their time to get going and some are just plain awesome.

[Cale]

Some book about an inquisitor, I think. A female one? Scourge the Xenos, perhaps?

[Ashe Darke]

Never heard of it, don't give in the books though, particularly Inquisitor books as Eisenhorn and Ravenor are awesome. The HH series has some good stuff as well.

[Yogi]

Having not read the book I can only assume mary sue plot armor.. Or more likely the marines forgot to bring their plot armor.. They die on the Table pretty easy..

[DaemonPrinceDargor]

Warning: Spoilers follow!

 

 

Nah i think the DG died in pretty reasonable numbers.It was a bloody regiment against 10 of them and a dreadnought.As A D-B said,the dread was practicaly dead when Thade and the Kasrkin sarge leapt on it,same thing when a knight lies down in the mud in full plate and a peasant sticks a fork in his eye and then claims that he killed a knight.When the real might of the DG arrived they went through a RG company without breaking a sweat and when they got bored with the whole thing they left.

 

On a sidenote,i really enjoyed all the characters in the book and particularly how the DG was portrayed.Using pre-heresy chants like "Count the Seven" as a calling beacon was a stroke of genious.The talk scene at the end between the Herald and his marines was pure gold.Keep up the good work and looking forward to reading about the NL.Btw,for once i was glad that space marine characters didnt have "patrician features"... :nuke:

 

 

Cheers!

[Ashe Darke]

Not read it yet but I'm definitely going to. How about a DG or at least PM book at some point A D-B, you know you want to ;)

[A D-B]

I didn't read your book, A D-B...

 

I'm still so new to BL, that I'm surprised anyone has read it yet.

 

Not read it yet but I'm definitely going to. How about a DG or at least PM book at some point A D-B, you know you want to :(

 

I'm locked into the Horus Heresy and Night Lords series right now. I'm sorta planning what to do after them, but the Word Bearers of 30K and the Night Lords fo 40K need a lotta love. I think the Death Guard are awesome, though. That's why they showed up in my first BL novel.

[Gree]

I didn't read your book, A D-B...

 

I'm still so new to BL, that I'm surprised anyone has read it yet.

 

I picked it up as soon as I could. For the iconic Guard regiment the Cadians don't appear that much. This one and Gunheads are the only novels which I can think of at the moment were it's centered around Cadians.

[Ashe Darke]

I'm locked into the Horus Heresy and Night Lords series right now. I'm sorta planning what to do after them, but the Word Bearers of 30K and the Night Lords fo 40K need a lotta love. I think the Death Guard are awesome, though. That's why they showed up in my first BL novel.

Yeah yeah, I hoping it's gonna be awesome. Not expecting much from my post, just thought I'd make the most of speaking to a BL library novelist.

 

The fact DG are in the book and the fact you're doing a HH book (and I've not read anything by you before) is why I went in and bought Cadian Blood today. So far so good! The first bit of a book is the hardest part of me as it needs to suck me in and if they take too long setting the scene or do it in a way I don't find interesting it takes a long time for me to get to the point where I can't put it down. Congratulations on writing a book that didn't feel like a chore getting through that initial bit. I look forwards to the rest of it.