What's more important?

[terminatorAM]

Ive been trying forever to come up with an all comers list while remaining a mounted force which makes it difficult to squeez every unit i want into a list even if it is at 2000pnts, i want to cover all bases but i feel like im leaving something out so heres what i got so far:

 

HQ

 

First Champion Agius (Lysander) (200)

 

Librarian - (140)

terminator armor and

storm shield

Troops

 

Tactical Squad I - (200)

+ 5 marines

meltagun

heavy bolter

powerfist

Rhino - (35)

 

Tactical Squad II - (180)

+5 marines

plasma gun

missile launcher

Rhino - (35)

 

Tactical Squad III - (175)

+5 marines

flamer

plasma cannon

Rhino - (35)

 

Elites

 

Terminator Squad - (230)

cyclone missile launcher

 

Dreadnought I - (125)

assault cannon

heavy flamer

 

Dreadnought II - (145)

twin-linked lascannon

missile launcher

 

Heavy Support

 

Land Raider Crusader - (260)

multi-melta

 

Vindicator - (120)

dozer blade

 

Vindicator - (120)

dozer blade

 

Total: 2000

37/8

 

I feel this list has plenty of mobile firepower but lacks in number of infantry models and relys too heavily on the termies w/ lysander and libby for the hammer unit (even if its a huge hammer). Ive been playing around with the idea of swiching out the vindicators for a fully tooled up assault squad for counter-charging and some extra cc support. or i can take out one vindicator and a dread and add a sternguard squad in razorback to beter deal w/ MCs and...well everything else, but ive had bad luck in the past with both of these units so what sounds beter to you guys?

 

- x2 vindicators: more mobile fire, less bodies and cc

- assault squad: more cc, less firepower, less armor

- sternguard: more well rounded, less redundency in armor

[Brother Captain Josef]

TBH mate if I was gonna swap out anything it would be the LR... Tactical Termies don't benefit from it in the same way as assault termies as they are unable to fire from it. I'm assuming you taking tac termies to benefit from Lysander re roll bolter stuff? Stick in another 5 termies and another heavy and you'll still have 30 points sitting about. You also increasing the relative effectiness of Lysanders bolter re-roll gubbins, increase your close combat / counter charge killiness and firepower.

 

You also have the benefit of range helping to avoid unfortunate 'incidents' involving Vindicators.

[minigun762]

As to your topic title, I think Codex Marines really benefit from a dedicated counter-assault unit. It doesn't have to be TH/SS Terminators but it has to be something.

 

As for the list, I think your too top heavy with the HQs. I'd drop Lysander and the Raider and pick up another 5 Tac Terminators. With the leftover money you could buy another Vindicator and some Speeders (Typhoons?) for more shooting.

[terminatorAM]

thanks for the replys but to answer my main question (maybe i didnt phrase this right): what are the most important TYPES of units needed to balance out a list

 

as for the termies, i always take them and Lysander has never let me down (ill need a really good reason to switch out those two) but ive been switching them between LRC and deep strike and having mixed luck with both since the LRC lets them get where i need them quickly while staying protected but w/less use overall, and deep striking lets me put them where theyre needed most but has the down side of DS mishaps and no longer mobile once they touch down

 

my LRC has been another unit that has pulled through for me in the past and Id rather not pull it off my list so im trying to find a way to maximise its use

 

one of my biggest concerns now is dealing w/ several troublesome units such as psychers and monsterous creatures, since my main opponent is eldar and there are alot of nid players at my local hobby center

 

Some past solutions ive used to solve several problems:

- use an assault squad to counter-charge, but they're exposed as the only squad w/o transport and even w/ cover usage they get targeted earlier and usually die early

- put a command squad in the LRC for counter-charge and DS termies, has worked well but termies have been stranded away from main combat or have mishaps

- add sternguard to take care of monsterous creatures but they seem too fragile and targetted early

- use a libby to counter psychic powers and gate termies or sterguard around, but takes up alot of points for what they really do and ive never had good luck w/ him

 

I cant find the right balance and am starting to think i might just be beter off not trying to fix every problem but ignor things like MC and focus on the rest of the army instead by adding more firepower (vindicators) is this a sound idea or should i consider all types of opponents when list building?

[minigun762]

thanks for the replys but to answer my main question (maybe i didnt phrase this right): what are the most important TYPES of units needed to balance out a list

 

Long/medium range firepower usually geared at anti-transport/MC/elite infantry

 

Assault/Counter assault units to protect your shooty units and go after their shooty units

 

AV14 killers, usually Melta weapons but Chainfists or Demolisher Cannons can also work

 

Horde killers, usually a combination of multi shot infantry weapons (Heavy Bolter/Bolters) and template/blast weapons (Flamers/Battlecannons)

[Warprat]

thanks for the replys but to answer my main question (maybe i didnt phrase this right): what are the most important TYPES of units needed to balance out a list

 

Long/medium range firepower usually geared at anti-transport/MC/elite infantry

 

Assault/Counter assault units to protect your shooty units and go after their shooty units

 

AV14 killers, usually Melta weapons but Chainfists or Demolisher Cannons can also work

 

Horde killers, usually a combination of multi shot infantry weapons (Heavy Bolter/Bolters) and template/blast weapons (Flamers/Battlecannons)

 

A second squad of Tactical Termies would provide most of the goodies mentioned above. Use both the cyclones in one squad with the sarge and librarian. Use the second squad in the LRC with Lysander.

 

Alternate setup for KP missions would be to lump the terminators together with lysander and the librarian. Then place a tactical squad in the LRC. The empty rhino can provide extra taxi support, when the other loaded rhinos get shot. Or the LRC can provide the taxi support, allowing the stranded tactical squad to charge into combat, no worse the wear.