Chaos Space Marine Dreadnoughts

[Stalkinwolf]

Hey guys as im building and putting together my CSM army im wondering if people ever use dreads in their armies these days?

I dont have any CSM player in the area to ask so I figured I'd ask on here if you dont mind.

If you do use them, what is the role that you use them for?

what do you usually equip them with?

vs what armies?

your general overview on CSM Dreadnoughts.

 

Giving me a few pointers here would be a great gesture.

Thank you!

[minigun762]

you will find quite a few topics on Chaos Dreads in the Chaos section but I can sum up 95% of the arguements for you.

1) They are generally regarded as a subpar unit, most competitive lists will never include them with the exception of Chaoszilla (3 Defilers/2 DPs/2-3Dreads for walker spam)

2) If you choose to use a Dread, the safest way to play them is 2x DCCW. This is because of the whole fire frenzy issue and shooting your own troops. After 2x DCCW, the safest choices are usually TL Heavy Bolter and Missile Launcher becaue they are less of a threat to your units (HB can only glance a Rhino and it won't hurt another Dread or Defiler and ML can be fired as Frags at a Rhino)

3) Typically you want to stay away from the Lascannon/Autocannon/Plasma Cannon or Multi-Melta as they are all excellent weapons at busting armor or killing infantry (including your own). If you play with Land Raiders you can get by using the PC or AC but only if you put the Land Raider right next to the Dread.

4) Point-wise and FOC, the Dreads compete with Terminators who can do the same basic job better and cheaper usually, so you really have to ask yourself what you're hoping to gain from using a Dread.

5) This topic comes up alot, and I swear alot of it is purely because FW made those awesome Chaos Dreads but the rules are difficult to work around.

[Stalkinwolf]

"5) This topic comes up alot, and I swear alot of it is purely because FW made those awesome Chaos Dreads but the rules are difficult to work around. "

 

That there was right on the money :)

 

The set of rules that they currently have is kind of disappointing and frightening

[Sanctjud]

Somewhat risky for an average performing unit.

It's not bad, it's a unit made to support CSM troopers.

It's best if your list has alot of armored elements, it adds to armor saturation, and there are at least 2 'safe' builds which mitigates the problems when it shoots you.

 

But, there is also a RAW/RAI/Rules in general issue with fire frenzy...sad really...one of the reasons why I don't use it. Has nothing to do with the unit itself, just teh Can Of Worms fire frenzy is.

 

/sigh. It did not need to be touched. The 3.5 Crazy rules were good. F'ing GW.

[minigun762]

But, there is also a RAW/RAI/Rules in general issue with fire frenzy...sad really...one of the reasons why I don't use it. Has nothing to do with the unit itself, just teh Can Of Worms fire frenzy is.

 

Agreed. For my money, its never worth bringing a unit to the table that I know will cause an arguement 50% of the time.

[jmlee]

I usually bring mine in when I decide to use denied flank tactics. Ill put my dread on the opposite side from the rest of the army, accompanied by a havoc squad in cover near it, usually with a missile launcher and 2 heavy bolters. A small one too not a 10 man squad. Just something cheapish to pose a threat and put a little pressure o n that side. It has helped me numerous times when the other player fields khan and outflanks assault marines attempting to rush up my line. Wham! They have to get past my dreadnought and havocs. The dread has a multimelta. If it shoots the havocs they at least get a cover save.

[The Nephilim]

As far as I'm concerned, until we get functioning dreadnaughts, real Chaos dreadnaughts are called defilers.

[minigun762]

As far as I'm concerned, until we get functioning dreadnaughts, real Chaos dreadnaughts are called defilers.

 

Which is sad because the new Ven Dread model would make a good cheap Chaos Dread.

[Demoulius]

tbh i agree on the rules making it a hard choice. if you take one for flavour however i suggest a plasmacannon :D except for a unit (or single) obliderator its the only way to add a plasmacannon to your foce :) with some tactics and use of terrain you can be sure the closest thing he can see are the opponents (or your own troops will get a cover save at least)

 

i do suggest keeping the close combat arm though, its one of the major things i had going for it :P

[Thranquil]

One option may be to give it the ML/DCCW loadout. If you roll fire frenzy then use the frag missiles.

As the others have commented it is a shame about the Chaos Dread because FW have done an awesome job with the models!

[Brother Nihm]

5) This topic comes up alot, and I swear alot of it is purely because FW made those awesome Chaos Dreads but the rules are difficult to work around.

Aye,

Looks, feel, and fluff-wise:

I am Nellon, Destroyer of Worlds, RAAAAARRRRH!

Rules-wise and terms of efficiency:

http://www.goodhousekeeping.com/cm/goodhousekeeping/images/3G/sock-with-hole-fb.jpg

What were they thinking (smoking?) when they wrote the rules for Chaos Dreadnoughts?

On the other hand, if they were costed at 60 points, before upgrades..

[Vel'Cona]

They came down hard on Chaos Dreadnoughts for no reason at all, IMO. It's not like it was OP to have a Dreadnought with TL Autocannons or a Plasma Cannon, which were the only unique things about Chaos Dreads other than the FF rule, at the time of release. I would say the heavy handed FF came out of the old "if it can do something cool we need to balance it" concept of design, ie. since it could occasionally throw some nasty charges or double tap its guns, it needed to have a counter to the really good rule. The primary ways to compensate for excellent unit abilities, especially those that bypass the rules (such as shooting twice in the same shooting phase), consist of:

 

1. Making it more expensive- points compensation. See Vanguard Veterans with JP (Heroic Intervention) vs. normal Assault Marines.

2. Limiting your ability to use it- special Force Organization requirements or limitations. They've actually scaled back on this, but having to take 10 Marines to get a heavy weapon applies here, on a smaller scale.

3. Giving it a negative trait, usually one that makes it inoperative or hurts your own stuff. Eldar Wraithlords and Wraithguard are good examples of this.

 

Number three is what we're dealing with here, though I think GW was overestimating how useful the positive effects of Fire Frenzy would be. Also, you can't use Drop Pods, which is probably one of the main reasons C:SM Dreads have come back into the fold.

 

BTW mad crazy Chaos Dread Nihm! I've seen that big guy before and it always makes me go "dang!" :D

[Demoulius]

5) This topic comes up alot, and I swear alot of it is purely because FW made those awesome Chaos Dreads but the rules are difficult to work around.

Aye,

Looks, feel, and fluff-wise:

I am Nellon, Destroyer of Worlds, RAAAAARRRRH!

Rules-wise and terms of efficiency:

http://www.goodhousekeeping.com/cm/goodhousekeeping/images/3G/sock-with-hole-fb.jpg

What were they thinking (smoking?) when they wrote the rules for Chaos Dreadnoughts?

On the other hand, if they were costed at 60 points, before upgrades..

ROFLMAO!!!!!

i laughed out aloud at those pictures :D and my mom just entered the room with clean laundry so she was puzzled -_-

*blinks a tear away* oh man....

im anfamilar with the term though...it works like a broken sock or something like that? hahaha so awesome ;)

like i said its more to be taken for fluff/fun. a new unit in your army that starts off by blowing up an entire unit would certainly add to the humor factor of a game :lol: