IA: Iron Angels

[Captain Juan Juarez]

*does faux boxing stance*

 

Cmon, I'll take on anyone.. Criticise me*!

 

 

*Yes, I know I eat too much cake.. :)

[Octavulg]

Juan? Leave it alone for a day or two and come back to it.

 

You'll have a fresh viewpoint, others will have a fresh viewpoint...it'll be great.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Juan? Leave it alone for a day or two and come back to it.

 

You'll have a fresh viewpoint, others will have a fresh viewpoint...it'll be great.

 

I'm obsessive and I can smell success... But I shall totally ignore this for now.

[Wolfbiter]

Hey Captain Juan,

 

I came into reading this a bit later, so I haven't gone through earlier criticisms already posted in the thread by others. If anything I post below has already been brought up and considered, feel free to disregard it.

 

Overall, my main criticism would be that the sentence structure throughout the IA is too complex. (Don't feel bad; this is a problem I have myself when writing IAs, believe me.) It can be very tricky getting the ponderous, formal writing style of 40K right without 'overdoing' your language.

 

I suggest after your break, read through your article out loud and see how it sounds to you. If any sentences are difficult to say or sound weird to your ears, simplify them. It's also OK to break very long sentences into two or more shorter ones. For example:

 

Garr and his fledgling Iron Angels were not to be disappointed as a force of Skitarii were teleported to the surface as bodyguard to a Tech-Magos; a Magos bearing a demand for the confiscation of Jerician grav technology.

 

It's a bit tricky navigating that sentence, there's a lot of info to process there. You could break it up into something like this:

 

"Garr and the Iron Angels watched angrily as a Tech-Magos and his Skitarii bodyguards arrived on the surface. The Tech-Magos sought to seize Jericia's precious grav-technology in the name of the Adeptus Mechanicus."

 

By the way, have you considered expanding the information about the caste system on Jericia? I've rarely seen this approach used in an IA. I was wondering whether the Tau Empire might have tried to contact or subvert Jericia at any point, given that they seem to have access to grav technology and the Tau do love caste systems. It would be kind of funny if the Tau tried to invite the Jericians to join the Greater Good and got thrown out for their pains. :D

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

I'm not totally sure about teleporting Skitarri. Skitarri are simply Adeptus Mechanicus version of the Imperial Guard or so I thought and you don't see much teleporting outside of the Astartes given how violent the entire process is. It simply seems a little wierd to me to have say anything less valuable than a space-marine being teleported around. Given how many humans you need to make up the same force-multiplier as an Astartes brings to the table, wouldn't it be a little dangerous?

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

I'm not totally sure about teleporting Skitarri. Skitarri are simply Adeptus Mechanicus version of the Imperial Guard or so I thought and you don't see much teleporting outside of the Astartes given how violent the entire process is. It simply seems a little wierd to me to have say anything less valuable than a space-marine being teleported around. Given how many humans you need to make up the same force-multiplier as an Astartes brings to the table, wouldn't it be a little dangerous?

 

That's debatable; Anthony Reynolds seems to think that some skitarri could be more specialized and deadlier than others, and despite the immense despisement of Ben Counter by most people he does seem to confirm this. Strangely, Dan Abnett thinks that they have personalities and such, but then again he thinks skitarri are augmented humans, not mind-wiped flesh-units. Important difference there.

 

So, um, there is a possibility Ydalir might be wrong :ph34r:

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

So, um, there is a possibility Ydalir might be wrong :lol:

 

Blasphemy! :huh:

 

 

 

That's debatable; Anthony Reynolds seems to think that some skitarri could be more specialized and deadlier than others, and despite the immense despisement of Ben Counter by most people he does seem to confirm this. Strangely, Dan Abnett thinks that they have personalities and such, but then again he thinks skitarri are augmented humans, not mind-wiped flesh-units. Important difference there.

 

I suppose it depends on which school of thinking you ascribe to. To my mind the Skitarri are the augmented human soldiers of the AdMech wheras any other more generic 'tech guard' can be any mind-wiped servitor. I'd say the Skitarri are left as they are simply because there is still no better replacement for the human mind in terms of intuitive thinking and initiative. No machine can replace that.

 

In any case I was thinking more of the logistics of teleporting a much larger force than a space marine squad into a battlefield. The Astartes have just as easy access to teleportation technology and yet they seem to limit it to the deployment of small Terminator squads in equally as rare occasions. The fact that you don't see more teleporting Astartes speaks to me of some serious risks inherent in battlefield deployment.

[Walter Payton]

I reckon that all Skitarii are somewhat different, depending on the Titan Legio. I think that Legio Skitarii will be as marines to the regular Forge World Skitarii as to guard, if perhaps not as powerful as marines. If you replace Skitarii with Skitarii Praetorians, it becomes more plausible.

 

From Lexicanum:

 

The Praetorians are a class of heavily armed and armoured Servitor that are created by the Adeptus Mechanicus to guard the shrines and temples dedicated to the Machine God with direct attack. They are commonly built with tracks or jointed mechanical legs to allow for easier mobility and to support their immense weight.

Praetorians are created from vat-grown giants or mind-scrubbed Ogryns. While their fearsome presence alone is enough to generally discourage attack, they also have the power and weaponry to back up their threatening appearance. Praetorians tower even over Space Marines in battle.

Their duties are not limited to just guarding temples, as they often serve as bodyguards to Techpriests on the battlefield. Although they are Servitors, the Praetorians are held in high esteem by the Skitarii who fight alongside them.

 

From the Lexicanum page on Skitarii:

 

These (the Praetorians) are the elite of the Skitarii. They are super-enhanced (bionically/cybernetically/chemically/genetically etc) humans who are augmented with a huge array of cybernetics and heavy weapons. They are, essentially, a sort of counterpart to Obliterators. However, many old sources also suggest that Praetorians are instead an elite Skitarii type following the fashion of Imperial Guard storm trooper units, but with slightly more augmentations, putting them somewhere between storm troopers and Space Marines. In the short story Deux es Mechanicus, Praetorians are in fact servitors, rather than living humans. They move on tank treads and are armed with powerful weaponry, such as plasma cannons. All of these are completely plausible, and based on the preferences of the Magos who build them.

 

Sound like the ideal bodyguard when dealing with marines, considering that they probably, if not intimidate, at least impress marines more than regular Skitarii.

 

And the canon sources they got it from:

 

*Citadel Journal 21

*Deus Ex Mechanicus short story

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Wolfbiter, the very first incarnation of this IA - when it had another name and theme - was criticised for the same point by Sigismund Himself, so obviously I have not learned! :)

 

RE: Teleporting: Who would be more likely to possess teleportation technology though, than the AdMech? Methinks no one!

[Ace Debonair]

By the way, have you considered expanding the information about the caste system on Jericia? I've rarely seen this approach used in an IA. I was wondering whether the Tau Empire might have tried to contact or subvert Jericia at any point, given that they seem to have access to grav technology and the Tau do love caste systems. It would be kind of funny if the Tau tried to invite the Jericians to join the Greater Good and got thrown out for their pains. :D

 

Are the Iron Angels anywhere near the tau? If not, I'd advise against it.

More on the caste stuff ( a line or two, not tons) could be interesting if you need the word count increasing.

 

So, um, there is a possibility Ydalir might be wrong

:lol:

 

 

Wait, what did I just read?

 

:D

 

Heresy!

 

Anyway - might it not be easier just to deploy the skitarii another way just to avoid all the controversy? ;)

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Well from Thursday I'll have a chance to think about it; the laptop nees a few repairs, it's making some funny sounds :lol:.

 

I still think teleporting is fine... So ner ner, but I will think about it!

 

No, the Tau are not anywhere near.. In fact they couldn't be much further away!

[Apothete]

When the debate solved nothing Captain Garr retired to his personal sanctum to meditate and for four days he was locked away from both his Brothers and the Magos. His final decision was given in a clam and measured way.

 

I've always wanted to be able to deliver my decisions in a clam way.

 

However, that sets up a point I think you might want to consider. I can understand wanting to get the major dramatic issues and thematic elements sorted before you spend a lot of time on polish but you've got enough errors scattered through just the Origin section that I'm struggling to read it without wanting to copy/paste segments in and point them out.

 

The following sentence is a perfect example:

Captain Garr and his disciplined way made him an exceptional negotiator and diplomat backed by the fearsome image that only an Astartes can muster, yet the Magos was unmoved by his physical presence yet bowed before the logic of the Captain.

 

Perhaps a small rewrite, something along these lines, would help:

The intense discipline displayed by Captain Garr made him an exceptional negotiator and diplomat, backed by the the fearsome visage granted by his heritage and wargear. Unlike many others before him, the Magos was unmoved by his presence and instead had to be swayed by the pure logic of Garr's arguments.

 

Another one, taken from later in the writeup:

It is not unknown, though such incidences are dealt with harshly, for Battle-Brothers to ignore orders to save a fellow Brother; such is the loyalty they feel to each other. Whilst such actions are often met with agreement by senior officers of the Chapter behind closed doors, such actions cannot be condoned upon the field of battle where such actions could snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

 

And my suggestion for a clearer presentation:

Though always dealt with in the harshest manner, it is not unknown for Battle Brothers to ignore the plight of their brethren and allow them to face their fate, even to the point of ignoring orders from superiors. The insubordination is punished despite whatever agreement a superior might privately feel.

 

As a doctrinal point, I do find it curious that a Chapter which supposedly values personal strength and honor above all else would even consider ordering Brothers to rescue one another. Would it not be a constant test of merit to fight and succeed on one's own?

[Captain Juan Juarez]

So Apothete, your problem is the way I write rather than what? If that's the case, you should quit now.. I know only one way to write!

 

Also, for the last point there may be some confusion, as I don't think - or didn't mean to state - that orders were given to rescue Brothers; rather that it did occur and was looked unkindly upon, at least in "public".

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

So, um, there is a possibility Ydalir might be wrong ;)

 

Blasphemy! :lol:

 

So, um, there is a possibility Ydalir might be wrong

:tu:

 

 

Wait, what did I just read?

 

:D

 

Heresy!

 

 

 

Hmm, considering I am a Dark Apostle, that might be appropiate... :D

 

But yeah, Ydalir had the right response to my post.

[Ace Debonair]

Blasphemy! :P

Heresy!

 

 

Hmm, considering I am a Dark Apostle, that might be appropiate... :D

 

Oh yeah. Ok, as you were, then. :lol:

 

As a sidenote, somehow I've only just noticed the picture of the angel-y thing at the top of this IA.

Way cool, but it doesn't look very iron-like. Perhaps a grey version for the IA: IA? :P

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Did you like my "acknowledgements" box? :lol:

 

As for the logo, total credit goes to Ecritter for that... I did think about a grey colour, but i like the purple contrast with the grey of the armour.

 

You could theorise that underneath the armour they look like that? :P

[Apothete]

So Apothete, your problem is the way I write rather than what? If that's the case, you should quit now.. I know only one way to write!

 

Not exactly, no.

 

My main problem is that I'm having to struggle to understand what you're reaching for because of the way that you write. It'd be a funny old world if we all had exactly the same style and tone, but the way that things are now makes it difficult to finish a paragraph in order to provide something meaningful in the way of commentary.

 

Also, for the last point there may be some confusion, as I don't think - or didn't mean to state - that orders were given to rescue Brothers; rather that it did occur and was looked unkindly upon, at least in "public".

 

Um...

 

So you didn't mean to state that orders were given rescue Brothers, only that orders were given to rescue them and it was frowned upon?

[Captain Juan Juarez]

My main problem is that I'm having to struggle to understand what you're reaching for because of the way that you write. It'd be a funny old world if we all had exactly the same style and tone, but the way that things are now makes it difficult to finish a paragraph in order to provide something meaningful in the way of commentary.

 

So the meaning is unclear... or...?

 

So you didn't mean to state that orders were given rescue Brothers, only that orders were given to rescue them and it was frowned upon?

 

Brothers rescue eachother but when they do so they are disciplined, even though it is in keeping with the nature of the Iron Angels.

[Apothete]

Brothers rescue eachother but when they do so they are disciplined, even though it is in keeping with the nature of the Iron Angels.

 

Okay, and this is a great example of what I was telling you in my first response. A lack of clarity in your wording can lead either to false impressions or complete misunderstandings in your readers. Being an author is certainly going to be about enjoying what you're doing but it's also about effectively communicating your ideas to others. I'm just trying to help you with the latter part.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Okay, and this is a great example of what I was telling you in my first response. A lack of clarity in your wording can lead either to false impressions or complete misunderstandings in your readers. Being an author is certainly going to be about enjoying what you're doing but it's also about effectively communicating your ideas to others. I'm just trying to help you with the latter part.

 

Which is totally helpful, I'm sure I admitted somewhere along the line that the style of writing an IA needs is not something I'm accustomed to; my writing is fiction, but in a very different way to IAs.. im a "story writer".

[Captain Juan Juarez]

I'm now in the process of rewriting anyhting and everything that appears disjointed... May the Emperor help me.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Have now read through, after a couple days absence from it, and made a few construction changes.

 

I'm now happy with it and can't find any faults, so I'm done and I quit!

 

:confused:

[Yogi]

Just to be a pain I thought I'd chuck my 2 cents in..

 

First..

 

"Iron Angels as most of the Brothers are drawn from.." Brother is meant to be capitalized?

 

"standard Combat Blade with a small handaxe.." Same again?

 

Also I found it highly amusing that a chapter, who is so obsessed with discipline and following the rules completely disregards codex organisation. Maybe I missed it, but is there a reason other then you like jump packs (understandable whats not to like) that they do this? I understand its from the home world culture, but thats seems like a sign of going native, something someone undisciplined would do.

 

Finally that saying, which ends; washes free in blood. Wouldn't a slight on honor be cleansed, obliterated or atoned.. free doesn't compute with me.

 

Cheers.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Have now read through, after a couple days absence from it, and made a few construction changes.

 

I'm now happy with it and can't find any faults, so I'm done and I quit!

 

:lol:

 

:P

[Yogi]

Should change the title to say you quit then.