Albion de Heaven Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Hi all, yesterday I played a 2v2 game against tyranids and even if nothing "strange" happened we spotted some interesting discussion point about the spore. I don't have the new tyr codex so i will write what i remember. Micetic spore is a monstrouse creature, full stats (we are interested in AC, AB, Ld) It's not Fearless and once landed it is immobile and can't be moved for any reason. Now we had this questions: 1) What happen if you close combact the spore, you win and it fails the morale check since it can't run away? 2) What happen if a chaos sorceror uses leash of submission on the spore? can he move it? 3) A tank tries to tank shock it, it fails the morale test... is the spore destroyed since it can't run away? If it pass the check and the tank stops over it what happens? by the rules it should be moved away but it can never be moved please share your opinions! :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ntin Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 The Mycetic Spore is Spore is fearless, page 54 in Codex: Tyranids. It also has a special rule dealing with being an immobile non vehicle unit. Hypothetically if neither of these were true, then it would fall outside the Warhammer 40,000 rule set and there would not be a correct way to read the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 1. Spore pods ARE fearless. this will never happen 2. spore pods have a move of 0, thus if lashed they will move 0 (in a similar fashion to how lashed bikes will move 12) 3.There are technicaly no rules to cover this, however in the similar situations of a monolith coming down on an imobile vehicle, or a mawloc coming up on one, the (imobile) vehicle is moved, thus I would move the pod anyway (think of it like a boulder, the boulder will not just get up and go on its own, but if you take a bulldozer you could still push it). The other option is that you simply may not tank shock spore pod, as it would lead to your tank being on top of model, which is an illeagal position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albion de Heaven Posted February 8, 2010 Author Share Posted February 8, 2010 The Mycetic Spore is Spore is fearless, page 54 in Codex: Tyranids. It also has a special rule dealing with being an immobile non vehicle unit. Hypothetically if neither of these were true, then it would fall outside the Warhammer 40,000 rule set and there would not be a correct way to read the rule. I will ask my tryranid player friend to check page 54 thanks :rolleyes: 2. spore pods have a move of 0, thus if lashed they will move 0 (in a similar fashion to how lashed bikes will move 12) uhm, as far as i remember if there are no FAQ regarding it, leash just move 2D6'' away, so it can moves bike of 2'' and footed marines of 12'', the unit maximum movement doesn't matter for the leash thank you all for your answers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 2. spore pods have a move of 0, thus if lashed they will move 0 (in a similar fashion to how lashed bikes will move 12) uhm, as far as i remember if there are no FAQ regarding it, leash just move 2D6'' away, so it can moves bike of 2'' and footed marines of 12'', the unit maximum movement doesn't matter for the leash thank you all for your answers your right, I remembered wrong, no chaos players in my crew so I am a little foggier on their rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mycroft Holmes Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 The Mycetic Spore is Spore is fearless, page 54 in Codex: Tyranids. It also has a special rule dealing with being an immobile non vehicle unit. Hypothetically if neither of these were true, then it would fall outside the Warhammer 40,000 rule set and there would not be a correct way to read the rule. Even if the Spore was not specifically called out as being Fearless, it still would be. Why? Because it's a Monsterous Creature and all MC are Fearless. Mycroft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 Monstrous Creatures are not inherently fearless. It just so happens that all teh models that are monstrous creatures also happen to also have the fearless special rule. For 3) I would suggest that the spore automatically does "death or glory". It is a model with a toughness, so it would go "squish" if it did not move out of the way of a tank, just like any other model that failed it's Death or Glory attempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hymirl Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 For 3) I would suggest that the spore automatically does "death or glory". It is a model with a toughness, so it would go "squish" if it did not move out of the way of a tank, just like any other model that failed it's Death or Glory attempt. I agree, out of the two options to pick from 'move' or 'death or glory' it can't pick move therefore it's only got one choice left! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 I also agree with that. However, as it's death or glory attempt is at 6+2D6, it has a decent chance of stopping most things that try to run it over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashe Darke Posted February 8, 2010 Share Posted February 8, 2010 I also agree with that. However, as it's death or glory attempt is at 6+2D6, it has a decent chance of stopping most things that try to run it over. You say that but my mates played a game tonight where a Land Raider ran over a Mawloc and Zoanthrope and a Rhino ran over Hive Tyrant. They didn't blow up any of the vehicles and died. Serves him right for being silly and death or glorying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 I also agree with that. However, as it's death or glory attempt is at 6+2D6, it has a decent chance of stopping most things that try to run it over. You say that but my mates played a game tonight where a Land Raider ran over a Mawloc and Zoanthrope and a Rhino ran over Hive Tyrant. They didn't blow up any of the vehicles and died. Serves him right for being silly and death or glorying. When you have a bio-engineered killing machine that can om nom nom power armour and tank armour plate, it's not silly, just bad luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Not such a bad luck, actually. Provided the Hive Tyrant penetrates the Rhinos armour, he only has a 2/3 chance of stopping the Rhino, since one of the six table results is merely "shaken" while one other is "weapon destroyed". If the Rhino has extra armour the Tyrant has only a 50% chance of stopping the Rhino, while the other 50% mean he gets squished. Personally, I would not risk a Tyrant against such odds, and have him politely step out of the way instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ntin Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 I am kind of shocked a Zoanthrope could not kill a Land Raider in a Death or Glory, must had been some poor dice rolls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 I am not down with forced death or glory, thats a choice and should remain so. The most corect answer by raw is it would be an illeagal tank shock. By RAI (judging from similar issues i the past) you could move the pod, or death or glory, at the owners discresion. Unless you want mawlocs to automaticly destroy imobalized vehicles they "OH YEAH" on to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashe Darke Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 Yeah the Rhino had Extra Armour and it was just things like can't shoot next turn so it just died. Multiple penetrating hits are where it's at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angronn Posted February 9, 2010 Share Posted February 9, 2010 The Deceiver can cause Fearless units to take (and thus, potentially fail) Ld. tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 angronn Posted Yesterday, 05:46 PM The Deceiver can cause Fearless units to take (and thus, potentially fail) Ld. tests. people seem to forget fearless units arent immume to LEADERSHIP TESTS.....they are however immume to pinning and MORALE tests....all 3 use your models ld value, but theyre completly different... Frosty the Pyro Posted Yesterday, 08:53 AM I am not down with forced death or glory, thats a choice and should remain so. The most corect answer by raw is it would be an illeagal tank shock. By RAI (judging from similar issues i the past) you could move the pod, or death or glory, at the owners discresion. Unless you want mawlocs to automaticly destroy imobalized vehicles they "OH YEAH" on to. with regards to the immobile pods. how is tank shocking them an illegal move...cause they cant move out of the way? isent tank shocking them to whole point to make use of the fact that they cant move out of the way? noewhere i the codex can i find a rule that says: if it bound to cause harm to your opponent, the move is illegal :D the opponent had a chance. death or glory or die. he cant move out of the way, hes immobile so suddenly moving because your beeing death or gloried seems illegal to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 with regards to the immobile pods. how is tank shocking them an illegal move...cause they cant move out of the way? isent tank shocking them to whole point to make use of the fact that they cant move out of the way? noewhere i the codex can i find a rule that says: if it bound to cause harm to your opponent, the move is illegal :D the opponent had a chance. death or glory or die. he cant move out of the way, hes immobile so suddenly moving because your beeing death or gloried seems illegal to me... the model is only removed on a failed death or glory. If they choose not to death or glory, then your just moved your tank onto another model, which is illeagal. There is nothing that forces death or glory, and nothing that will kill the pod if it chooses not to death or glory, thus the tank ends in an illegal postion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Tank shocking vehicles move through enemy models as if tehy were not there, so the move should be legal. However, when the Tank ends it's movement on a position where an enemy model is standing, that enemy model now has to be moved out of the way. The Tank is not possibly unable to performthe Tank Shock. The enemy model is forced to move. If the enemy model cannot move, then this is the part where the "illegal" comes into play. Usually that would be interpreted as the model being removed from play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Frosty the Pyro Posted Today, 03:46 AM QUOTE (Demoulius @ Feb 9 2010, 07:58 PM) with regards to the immobile pods. how is tank shocking them an illegal move...cause they cant move out of the way? isent tank shocking them to whole point to make use of the fact that they cant move out of the way? noewhere i the codex can i find a rule that says: if it bound to cause harm to your opponent, the move is illegal the opponent had a chance. death or glory or die. he cant move out of the way, hes immobile so suddenly moving because your beeing death or gloried seems illegal to me... the model is only removed on a failed death or glory. If they choose not to death or glory, then your just moved your tank onto another model, which is illeagal. There is nothing that forces death or glory, and nothing that will kill the pod if it chooses not to death or glory, thus the tank ends in an illegal postion. correct, he dies on a failed death or glory. when a tank moves over him he tank shocks. the pod automaticly passes its morale check (cause its fearless) and then (normally) could move aside or elect a death or glory. since it CANT move at ALL it can only do a death or glory or get turned into a bloody paste, period. the mere fact that it cant MOVE doesent mean you cant tank shock him "because it cant get out of the way". the pod is intended to bring something on the board. its did its job and then just sits there, thats what a mythic spore does. its done its job, delivered whatever it was supposed to and now sits there till the hive mind reabsorbs it....or a rhino or the like turns it into a bloody paste :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ntin Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 It does not need to move aside though? The vehicle just passes through the location where the pod is at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 Yes it would only be illegal if tank ended its move over the pod, elsewise it just passes through as normal. however there is nothing that forces death or glory if the target cant move. It is an option, and nothing more. Thus the choice can still be made to NOT perform death or glory. Prescedence says you move the pod anyway, but prescedence is not rules. The ruled done say anything for the situation were the tank ends on top of the pod, and the owner of the pod does not ellect to perform death or glory. So you end at an impasse were the tank is illeagaly positioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 It is not the tank who is performing an illegal action though. His ability to tank shock is not dependant on the enemy model's ability to move out of the way. Indeed, it could under normal circumstances chose not to move, and teh Tank could still perform the Tank Shock. When the Tank Shock is performed and the Tank would be stopping on top of an enemy model, that enemy model is now forced to move out of the way. The model staying in its's place is the illegal move. One solution would be to simply move the spore regardless of it's own inability to move. The spore cannot "move", but it "can be moved". The other solution would be to remove the spore from play, because that is what usually happens to models that don't move out of the way of the tank, even if that is usually up to the owning player's decision, and not decided by the models inability to move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Mage Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 I would say, after rereading the tank shock rules and the spores rules, that the spore would be moved out of the way by the shortest distance possible in order to be 1" away from the tank causing the tank shock. Why? Because while the model is moved it never states that this count as "movement" for the purposes of shooting, moving the next turn, assault etc. Thus I can only assume that it is not the same as the movement mechanic, but simply because the laws of physics frown upon coexistant solid objects. Though I admit, I would find it in good taste for a death or glory to occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted February 10, 2010 Share Posted February 10, 2010 fact of the matter remains that the spore cannot move under any circumstance, to quote from the book: A mythic spore cannot move for any reason once it has entered the battle. so no, it cant be "moved out of the way" even be pushed out of the way, it cant move. I would say, after rereading the tank shock rules and the spores rules, that the spore would be moved out of the way by the shortest distance possible in order to be 1" away from the tank causing the tank shock. Why? Because while the model is moved it never states that this count as "movement" for the purposes of shooting, moving the next turn, assault etc. Thus I can only assume that it is not the same as the movement mechanic, but simply because the laws of physics frown upon coexistant solid objects. so because it doesent say that moving the model counts as movement for following turns your debating whetever its movement at all? seriously thats the same as debating whetever models from the chaos DEAMON codex are actually deamons... look guys, whetever or not you like the fact that the nid player is forced to death or glory or not it doesent matter. it cant move out of the way no matter how you try to swing this and therefore cant move out of the way of the several tonnes of metal that are screaming towards it. it doesent have an option because its not a normal unit (normal is hard to come by in 40k but you understand my point i guess) its the same as a drop pod, albeit a fleshy version of one.... drop pods cant be moved either under any circumstance (yea yea i know theyre a vehicle and all) so why would this tyranid version of a pod get that luxury? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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