Sparhawk Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 This query is kind of related to the topic at hand, I have not read through C:CSM so I don't have the exact wording on Lash, but how would the Spore react to being lashed if a chaos player decided to (for whatever the reason may be)? Sorry if this is too off topic I just thought it might help resolve this issue if we took a look at how similar things would work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted February 16, 2010 Share Posted February 16, 2010 The lash rule in the Codex Chaos Space Marines itself is not specific and would suggest that the Spore could indeed be moved, but there are two questions in the Chaos FaQ about how Lash works in certain situations, and they would suggest the opposite. One question is about whether a unit can be moved several times per turn by different sorcerers, to which the answer is yes, as long as the unit does not fail its pinning test. So apparently a unit that has gone to ground could not be made to move by the lash, which I would say can be taken as the intent that other units that are under some movement restritcion that denied them a regular move could not be moved either. The other question is more general about how Lash is applied, and there the answer is that the move is conducted like a normal move, but with the slight alterations from the Lash rule (like random movement distance and no difficlt terrain test). If it is like a normal move, again I would say that in that case the Spore would not be affected by it, since it cannot move adccording to it's own rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demoulius Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 That does sound like moving out of the way is usually done voluntarily, and the natural thing to do, except when a model is feeling lucky and thinks it does not need to because it can make the vehicle stop. true, normally it IS conducted only if you want to do it but the whole discussion is that the pod cant move at all, so it wouldnt be able to move out of the way whetever it wanted to or not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Hence I am advocating that the Spore has to do "Death or Glory" by default. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ntin Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 This query is kind of related to the topic at hand, I have not read through C:CSM so I don't have the exact wording on Lash, but how would the Spore react to being lashed if a chaos player decided to (for whatever the reason may be)? Sorry if this is too off topic I just thought it might help resolve this issue if we took a look at how similar things would work. Mycetic Spores, Codex: Tyranids page 54 “Immobile Pod: A Mycetic Spore cannot move for any reason once it has entered the battle. It may never go to ground, voluntarily or otherwise – and may not consolidate or make a sweeping advance following a close combat.” The Lash of Submission power would have no effect on a Mycetic Spore since it cannot be moved and it is fearless, so it may not be pinned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Careful there. A lot of the arguments center around the fact that the Spore's rules merley say it may not "move", which is not the same as "being moved". :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ntin Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 An immobilized vehicle states “it may not move for the rest of the game”. It is specific to the vehicle’s own movement. The Immobile Pod rule is generic to what is attempting to move it. A codex supersedes what is written in the main rulebook. The main rulebook does not have a situation for an immobile nonvehicle unit. As before Codex: Tyranids such a unit did not exist. It follows then for such a unit to exist there would be the need for a rule that dictates how such a unit interacts with the rest of the game. Such a rule is supplied in Codex: Tyranids with Immobile Pod. The Mycetic Spore “moving” or “being moved” is irrelevant as it is explicitly stated that a Mycetic Spore cannot move. For an ability like Lash of Submission it is easy to resolve as another model is not trying to occupy the same space as the Mycetic Spore. In cases such as forced movement due to a conflicting rule such as from a Mawloc, Monolith, or Tank Shock! the Immobile Pod does rule does not detail how this should be resolved. At which point there is no logical process to resolve the conflict and it falls into Rules as Intended. My personal opinion is that in the case of a tank shock, the vehicle stops in front of the Mycetic Spore if the vehicle would have otherwise ended on top of it. For rules like those the Mawloc or Monolith have it is treated as small bit of Impassable Terrain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Pardon me, but that interpretation makes the least sense so far. If a Rhino can run over a Carnifex, why couldn't it run over a Spore? The tank shock will either move the spore out of the way, as the rules would usually demand, or the Spore is removed as a casualty, which is the usual result of a model not moving out of the way. That the Tank would stop in front of the Spore does not satisfy either of the two known and usual mechanics. And both the Mawloc and the Monolith rules regarding immobile vehicles specifically point out (in the Codex or the FaQ) that the vehicle is moved anyway, so it makes sense to apply the same mechanic to an immobile non-vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frosty the Pyro Posted February 17, 2010 Share Posted February 17, 2010 Hence I am advocating that the Spore has to do "Death or Glory" by default. except thats not the rules, its a houserule, an acceptable one sure, but a house rule nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ntin Posted February 18, 2010 Share Posted February 18, 2010 Pardon me, but that interpretation makes the least sense so far. If a Rhino can run over a Carnifex, why couldn't it run over a Spore? The tank shock will either move the spore out of the way, as the rules would usually demand, or the Spore is removed as a casualty, which is the usual result of a model not moving out of the way. That the Tank would stop in front of the Spore does not satisfy either of the two known and usual mechanics. And both the Mawloc and the Monolith rules regarding immobile vehicles specifically point out (in the Codex or the FaQ) that the vehicle is moved anyway, so it makes sense to apply the same mechanic to an immobile non-vehicle. A Rhino can also run over a Tyranid Hierophant which to scale is several times larger. It is simply a mechanic of the game. The interaction between the immobile nonvehicle and a vehicle performing a “Tank Shock!” is not covered in either the core rule book or Codex: Tyranids. Which is why I am advocating this cannot be answered Rule as Written. The problem is nothing can force a model to do a “Death or Glory” it is elected by the owning player. There also is no case in where the vehicle forces a fearless unit to move and the model cannot move anywhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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