Corsairs Serpentis

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

After yet another lengthly hiatus from this site I find myself once again wanting to actually have a chapter of my creation land itself in the Librarium. That chapter is to be the Corsairs Serpentis, I absolutely want this chapter in the Librarium. Even if it's not the first I get in there, I want their IA in there for all and sundry to see. Mainly so people don't just think I talk the talk but not walk the walk as it were.

 

I've had half a dozen topics in the Liber on these guys and always with a different angle or approach and they always sank like a stone when I would eventually lose the spare time I had to work on them and the work would be largely discarded the next time I had a cool new slant to take with them.

 

This time however I think my last iteration hit the nail pretty much on the head with what I wanted for this chapter. However the restarting of this project is going to be a tentative one for now and I'm going to take the wisest approach I can to begin with, one a very good writer once told me: broad strokes.

 

 

Known Traits

• Psuedo Alpha Legion warfare specialists
  
• Bedouin/Desert Nomad cultural inspiration
  
• Have homeworld / homeworld destroyed
  

 

One thing I wanted to do, spurred on by my supporters here in Liber the last time I was here was the fact that I wanted the line between these guys and the Alpha Legion to blur, deliberately. I want you to come away from reading the IA and not be quite sure whether these guys are true loyalists or merely appearing to be, I want them wrapped up in the same mystery as the AL but done deliberately and not through confusing the reader.

 

The kind of timeline I'm looking at is this:

 

1. Chapter is created (on bad/misinformation that another chapter is destroyed)
   
2. Chapter arrives and claims homeworld
   
3. Neighbouring chapter they are sent to replace is not destroyed
   
4. Chapters become 'friends'
   
5. Corsairs discover other chapter is corrupt
   
6. Chapters both bash each other stupid
   

 

That's as far as I've gotten. The feeling between the two chapters is one of first brotherhood then betrayal, with the Corsairs being the ones betrayed. They discover their other half is corrupt in such a way that it costs them dearly before they make the decision to go to war with their erstwhile brethren.

 

Where I am struggling is that I am not sure if I am competant enough of a writer to pull off the mystery and enigmatic intrigue that is required to give the Corsairs their due after the amount of times I've stuffed around with these guys to no avail. What I'm asking for are ideas on how to implement the above mentioned ingredients.

 

Due to the lack of precise direction given in this post as pointed out by Ferrata below, here is the link to the original post that I was working with to create these lists.

 

Link to previous draft.

 

My suggestion would be to sneak it up a notch. What I mean is how about not mentioning the Alpha Legion at all. Make it a mystery for the reader to solve. They are Alpha Legion after all, the sneakiest of the sneakiest.

 

 

Appreciate your attention here, everyone.

 

-GHY

[Ferrata]

I am confused where the mystery is coming from at the moment. Is it meant to be two chapters go to war and the victors (your chapter) say the other went traitor and attacked them - yet you want the reader to get the hint that it might have been the other way around and your chapter are the traitors? Until I get this sorted in my head, it is kind of difficult to make more comments as I can't really say if this bit is needed or how about this if I don't know where you want to go ;)

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Basically the mystery arrives from why the chapter is created to where they arrive in space. The last draft I created made it seem like there was something else at work. About as subtle as a punch in the face but it got the point across, I'll dig it up and repost it or the linke.

 

It might just be the one in my sig.... I can't remember, time for a test.

 

EDIT:

 

Hey look at that, I actually DID update my sig last time I was here. Well that made things a lot easier. I'll repost the link in the original post.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

What sort of inspiration are you going to take from the Bedouin..? I admit, i pictured Space marines on camels.... :D

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Well the original post has more info on this, but essentially I am taking their laws, societal structure and philosophies and transposing them into 40k Astartes. Not everything goes over as easily as an overtly martial inspiration like Knights, Samurai, Romans or Spartans but it's far more charactful for the chapter. I can get more specific with some examples if need be.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Well the original post has more info on this, but essentially I am taking their laws, societal structure and philosophies and transposing them into 40k Astartes. Not everything goes over as easily as an overtly martial inspiration like Knights, Samurai, Romans or Spartans but it's far more charactful for the chapter. I can get more specific with some examples if need be.

 

My knowledge of the Bedouin is not what you might extensive, I know little beyond their nomadic Desert lifestyle.

I believe they had tribes, akin to the Clans of the IH?

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Well since IE just crashed and ate my entire post (must not have given a good enough offering to the always capricous gods of the interwebs), I'll just post some Wikipedia links for the bedouin and answer any more questions you have regarding them.

 

Bedouin General Article

 

Bedouin Honour Codes

 

Bedouin Systems of Justice

 

Mostly I was intrigued by the Honour Codes and the Justice System. I've always been greatly intrigued by the nomadic desert peoples and the Bedouin are chief among those. There are also the Taureg for example but the Bedouin have a more fleshed out society that I can get information about easily.

 

To your question; yes in a similar fashion to the Clans of the Iron Hands but more easily turned to other things but warfare (in coming a more 'intelligence' based slant, or at least a more subtle one than the IH possess).

[Captain Juan Juarez]

By intelligence based, is that a reference to the pseudo-Alpha Legion style of warfare?

[Ace Debonair]

This time you really do have to write the IA for these guys.

Their previous incarnation of the Corsairs Serpentis was, well, awesome. It's a darn shame you never took them any further. :lol:

 

Couple of questions:

How similar will the Corsairs Serpentis be to the chapter they 'replace' in terms of character?

 

On the previous topic, a lot of people said you had a great colour scheme, and yet there was no pictorial evidence of this scheme.

I'm extremely curious now - what colour are these guys?

 

Where I am struggling is that I am not sure if I am competant enough of a writer to pull off the mystery and enigmatic intrigue that is required to give the Corsairs their due after the amount of times I've stuffed around with these guys to no avail.

 

Doubting yourself adds nothing to the chapter. Take it out. :P

Seriously though, your last attempt with these fellows had all the pieces. Just put them in place, and we'll help you isolate any gaps, flaws or oversights. Quality control, remember? ;)

 

I know what you mean about getting a chapter into the Librarium. :P I've got five chapters (admittedly two are undergoing radical alterations and haven't been seen in months) all aiming for the same goal.

I'll see what I can do in regards to helping you get there, anyway.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

The coloured arm is specialist marking, unsure of exactly what specialization yet though.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

I would have made the golden/sand yellow the primary colour... But then I'm a picky so and so!

[Ace Debonair]

OK, I'm convinced.

 

That colour scheme rules. :blink:

Looking forward to seeing what slant you put on these guys this time!

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

It's not so much a new slant but trying to fully realise how to put all the dispirate pieces together so they make sense.

 

Too many times I've lost my way with a chapter by either becoming discouraged by certain criticism on something I thought was a good idea, or becoming tangled up in the minutae or 'the cool bits' that I lose sight of the end product that I should be working towards.

 

I appreciate the support though Ace.

 

And Captain, I thought about the sand colour but I have another chapter with a major/minor yellow/black scheme already, not only that but black is sneakier and seems to fit the idea of them I have in my head.

 

This is more of a blending of Bedouin and Hashishim themes rather than a straight out nomadic culture transferrance to 40k. They become drifters, nomads only after their homeworld is destroyed by their brother chapter.

 

I suppose what I'm looking for are different ways to achieve the same effect for certain things. Like who betrayed who and where and how. I originally had the Corsairs discovering their brother chapter was working for/with the AL but with criticism and upon reflection it seems about as subtle as a bowling ball through a plate-glass window and kills the intrigue dead within the first few minutes, which sucks.

 

I'll see if I can dig up the spirit to attack the original draft in my sig.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Mystery is the big thing isn't it.. I've never bothered with that route because i know I would fail in spectacular fashion, prefering instead to keep it simple!

[Lt. Smash]

You need to get an IA up, these blokes sound downright awesome.

[Donkey Kong]

The first DIY I ever saw GHY start. And now here we are, back at square one :D .

 

So, we're back to the brother chapter. If you don't mind my opinion, I think Corsairs Serpentis with their brothers being the Star Adders is a little too much snake repetition.

 

Psuedo Alpha Legion warfare specialists

 

Does this include the recruitment of human spies? How do they use them to their advantage? Do they have a mark (Legion made a point that all servants of the Alpha Legion were branded with the hydra. Perhaps Corsair servants could have a snake tattoo of sorts, or, because I have absolutely no idea how tribal desert nomads usually are, a snake bite?).

 

Bedouin/Desert Nomad cultural inspiration

 

After their home world is destroyed, how do they recruit? Do they target feral worlds (possibly easier to adapt to a nomadic lifestyle than a hiver)?

 

Following the Wikipedia Articles:

 

Groups, I assume these are being translated into Companies, usually trace back common lineage. I can imagine a link between this and recruitment from the home world's nobility, how is the Chapter affected by the loss of these blood lines?

 

Sharaf, apparently the honor code for men:

 

can be acquired, augmented, lost, and regained.

 

and

 

protection of the ird of the women of the family, protection of property, maintenance of the honor of the tribe and protection of the village

 

I'll ignore the women, because, well, I don't think it fits the Space Marine mentality of fighting for humanity. Protection of property: whose? The Chapter's, the Emperor's or the Imperium's? Honoring the tribe, how do they maintain this honor? How do Marines lose their honor? Protection of the village is similar to protection of property, and if they have this dedication, how are they affected by their failure to protect their own world?

 

Also, honor is based on bravery, I would assume a stubborn mentality indoctrinated into new recruits, "death before dishonor" and the like.

 

Corsairs discover other chapter is corrupt

 

Here is the important bit that you really have to blur if you want to pull off the "are they really loyal" card.

 

The feeling between the two chapters is one of first brotherhood then betrayal, with the Corsairs being the ones betrayed

 

Now, how does it happen? If it's the Corsairs being lured into a trap, the blur isn't as distinct. However, if the trap is sprung after questionable behavior (possibly an action like the Marines Malevolent where the Corsairs bomb a civilian work camp), it makes more sense.

 

You could blur the lines more with a possible shaky relationship following several centuries of brotherhood, whether a conflict over an ancient relic? A distinction between loyalty to the Emperor and loyalty to the Imperium?

 

Concerning Justice

 

decisions are taken by village elders.

 

Who will these elders be in the Chapter? Chaplains? Librarians? Captains and Veterans?

 

One of the principles for the nomads is "blood begets blood", now this can be taken as a pursuit of the other Chapter, down to it's complete eradication.

 

In the previous thread you were trying to think of something along the lines of blood feuds. Unfortunately, I can't see how you would link the two without having something similar to the Fallen with the Corsairs hunting down the other Chapter (not that this is necessarily bad, just that I don't know how you would pull this off while also retaining a secretive nature that cannot be inferred as sulking).

 

They become drifters, nomads only after their homeworld is destroyed by their brother chapter.

 

Is this penitence for them? Where do they go? How far do they stretch?

 

I originally had the Corsairs discovering their brother chapter was working for/with the AL but with criticism and upon reflection it seems about as subtle as a bowling ball through a plate-glass window

 

Indeed. Don't involve the Alpha Legion.

 

As for the color scheme, keep the yellow/ gold, it infers nobility, or at least I think so, and gives a feeling of a linked heritage with all of them descending from the same bloodline (even though they don't).

 

I intend to see you through this time, GHY.

[Lysimachus]

To clarify, the idea in the previous draft was that the Chapter they replaced had been destroyed and then impersonated by the Alpha Legion, but now there's a distinct possibility that the Corsairs themselves are the Alpha Legion impostors and that the Adders (I'm using the name for now, but I certainly agree it should be changed) were/are actually still loyal? Have I got that right? If so: complicated, but very, very cool.

 

How will you get that across without actually stating that one or the other is lying? Perhaps you could do most of the IA from the first point of view of the Corsairs being loyal but just have a sidebar, a witness or something who claims to have spoken to a Star Adder who has accused the Corsairs? Would be just enough to raise some doubts about the whole thing?

 

My advice overall would be simply 'Get on with it!' ;) You're certainly capable of doing it, both in terms of fluff understanding and writing ability, you just need to make the time and sit down and do it and stick with it until it's done! (sorry, that sounds really overbearing, doesn't it? :) )

 

Good luck, and I'll be looking out for the latest draft

 

Lysimachus

[Captain Juan Juarez]

My advice overall would be simply 'Get on with it!' ;) You're certainly capable of doing it, both in terms of fluff understanding and writing ability, you just need to make the time and sit down and do it and stick with it until it's done! (sorry, that sounds really overbearing, doesn't it? ;) )

 

Good luck, and I'll be looking out for the latest draft

 

Lysimachus

 

Overbearing? Mayhaps it is.. But I agree! :)

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Much appreciated KHK!

 

First off,

 

(not that this is necessarily bad, just that I don't know how you would pull this off while also retaining a secretive nature that cannot be inferred as sulking).

 

That brought a smile to my face as that's exactly how I view the DA, brooding and sulky. 40k Emos. Well put, that's the furthest from my mind when I think of what I want the Corsairs to become.

 

 

So, we're back to the brother chapter. If you don't mind my opinion, I think Corsairs Serpentis with their brothers being the Star Adders is a little too much snake repetition.

 

Agreed. I don't want to bash the reader over the head with snake/serpent influences, I'll try to think of something else.

 

After their home world is destroyed, how do they recruit? Do they target feral worlds (possibly easier to adapt to a nomadic lifestyle than a hiver)?

 

As with most fleet-based chapters I'd thought originally that they would recruit from whatever suitable worlds they find on their travels. Recently though I was thinking of something akin to the (video game references coming up) Quarian Migrant Fleet from Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2.

 

Perhaps the Corsairs managed to evacuate much of the planets population (wouldn't be a large population considering the culture they draw from) before it is rendered lifeless (perhaps virus bombs?) and keep the people with them. Rather than over developing the chapters fleet though the people would be transported on seized cargo ships and naval transports.

 

In this way the Corsairs could be set apart from the traditional fleet based chapter in that they must safeguard their population as well as bring their entire fleet with them on campaign, making them both very strong and very vulnerable at the same time.

 

I'll ignore the women, because, well, I don't think it fits the Space Marine mentality of fighting for humanity. Protection of property: whose? The Chapter's, the Emperor's or the Imperium's? Honoring the tribe, how do they maintain this honor? How do Marines lose their honor? Protection of the village is similar to protection of property, and if they have this dedication, how are they affected by their failure to protect their own world?

 

Well I'd say that the chapter must make up for their inability to save their homeworld by protecting what is left of their people if I go the 'Migrant-Fleet' route. Otherwise perhaps they depart on a penitent crusade as a whole. Otherwise their penitence would be responding to any call for aid put to them, no matter the source which would lead to the splitting up of the chapter to disperse all over the Imperium, allowing them to be everywhere and anywhere, much like the AL.

 

This also ties into their 'honour' concept. The Corsairs would be very anti-defeatist, their honour code demanding that they remain in a warzone until the war is won, no matter the time spent or the cost if it is a just cause. Due to their dispersed numbers or inability to devote the same amount of resources to a single warzone as a typical chapter could this would lead to a much increased slant towards the 'intelligence' end of the spectrum that the AL sits on, if you catch my drift.

 

That said I am thinking of the chapters home culture being very similar here. In concept I would imagine a lot of the warfare among the homeworld's tribes to be very small scale given the cost of too much blood being spilt without victory in such harsh conditions as the desert nomads live in.

 

Something similar to the Hashishim (Wiki article link HERE), along with the best warriors of a tribe fighting each other in short, brutal, small scale skirmishes using intimidation and assassination when the odds were stacked against them. Perhaps something akin to counting coup for Assassins. Where most cultures consider Assassins to be somewhat cowardly or dishonourable this worlds peoples could consider it a great feat of bravery to sneak into an enemies camp and return unharmed with evidence of their enemies demise.

 

Now, how does it happen? If it's the Corsairs being lured into a trap, the blur isn't as distinct. However, if the trap is sprung after questionable behavior (possibly an action like the Marines Malevolent where the Corsairs bomb a civilian work camp), it makes more sense

 

Honestly I haven't pinned down quite what I want. Yes I want the Corsairs to be lured into a trap but I don't want it to be for anything as blatantly obvious as malevolant behaviour on the Corsairs part, they strive to protect the Emperors realm and it's people. While they aren't the Salamanders or Space Wolves by any stretch of the imagination they wouldn't needlessly waste Imperial lives if they could meet the enemy face to face or better yet, prevent the attack through other means entirely.

 

Something more akin to the prosecuting of a conflict to the detriment of an enemy their brother chapter is persuing perhaps? It could go either way to make them more wary of each other and sow the seeds of discontent.

 

Who will these elders be in the Chapter? Chaplains? Librarians? Captains and Veterans?

 

Exactly. Rank among the corsairs is directly related to the culture. Those who survive the longest with an active hand in the tribe (those that are too infirm would be unable to pull their weight among the tribe and subsequently would be put to death ceremonially, at least, that's the idea in my head, with few exceptions) are considered elders.

 

While a battle-brother may win himself accolades and the notice of those in charge he would still be unable to advance in rank if he was too young, not that he wouldn't be marked as an individual to be watched closely by the companies veterans and officers.

 

 

One of the principles for the nomads is "blood begets blood", now this can be taken as a pursuit of the other Chapter, down to it's complete eradication.

 

In the previous thread you were trying to think of something along the lines of blood feuds. Unfortunately, I can't see how you would link the two without having something similar to the Fallen with the Corsairs hunting down the other Chapter (not that this is necessarily bad, just that I don't know how you would pull this off while also retaining a secretive nature that cannot be inferred as sulking).

 

As I said earlier I don't want a 'fallen' situation. The corsairs destroy their former brother chapter in a short but brutal and costly campaign. The kind of war you imagine if you pitted two near equal modern national militaries against one another. Touched upon in Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, you see Russia and the United States go at each other but at huge cost.

 

Indeed. Don't involve the Alpha Legion.

 

As for the color scheme, keep the yellow/ gold, it infers nobility, or at least I think so, and gives a feeling of a linked heritage with all of them descending from the same bloodline (even though they don't).

 

I intend to see you through this time, GHY.

 

On the colour scheme I agree. I was thinking of making the yellow count for officers and veterans though, something to mark out an Elder, something even painted on Chaplain and Librarian armour for the elders of the groups.

 

Appreciate the effort KHK!

[Donkey Kong]

After their home world is destroyed, how do they recruit? Do they target feral worlds (possibly easier to adapt to a nomadic lifestyle than a hiver)?

 

As with most fleet-based chapters I'd thought originally that they would recruit from whatever suitable worlds they find on their travels. Recently though I was thinking of something akin to the (video game references coming up) Quarian Migrant Fleet from Mass Effect and Mass Effect 2.

 

I assume that the population would be like the Chapter's serfs as well then?

Also, I would kindly ask you not to spoil a thing from Mass Effect 2 for me lest I descend into violent rage and hunt you down with the dedication and malevolence of a (mad) woman scorned :cuss (I have an unhealthy love for everything science fiction Bioware has created, with the exception of the to be released Old Republic MMO, and I refuse to have this ruined for me without declaring a blood feud even with a friend).

 

(perhaps virus bombs?)

 

As far as I remember, virus bombs are still limited to sanctioned use by a Warmaster and (probably) the High Lords of Terra. Simple Exterminatus would be sufficient, I think.

 

they must safeguard their population as well as bring their entire fleet with them on campaign, making them both very strong and very vulnerable at the same time.

 

This makes me think that your Chapter fleets have ships dedicated to carrying the entire population, unlike having them as Chapter serfs where they would be protected on board armed vessels. It doesn't make sense for a Chapter to leave itself vulnerable like this.

 

 

Now, how does it happen? If it's the Corsairs being lured into a trap, the blur isn't as distinct. However, if the trap is sprung after questionable behavior (possibly an action like the Marines Malevolent where the Corsairs bomb a civilian work camp), it makes more sense

 

Honestly I haven't pinned down quite what I want. Yes I want the Corsairs to be lured into a trap but I don't want it to be for anything as blatantly obvious as malevolant behaviour on the Corsairs part, they strive to protect the Emperors realm and it's people.

 

Perhaps, but for the most part (obvious exceptions including Space Wolves, Salamanders, etc.) Chapters have a mentality of ends justifying means. Even on Armageddon when the Marines Malevolent bombed an Ork prison camp they did it with the intent of destroying an Ork facility for producing technology. It can even be inferred (well, not from the Marines Malevolent point of view where they probably just wanted to hurt the Ork war machine) that the prisoners are better off dead, 'tis no mercy to let a slave live a slave, 'tis better to die on your feet than live on your knees, 'tis (and all that nice old world speech).

 

Exactly. Rank among the corsairs is directly related to the culture. Those who survive the longest with an active hand in the tribe (those that are too infirm would be unable to pull their weight among the tribe and subsequently would be put to death ceremonially, at least, that's the idea in my head, with few exceptions) are considered elders.

 

Even old marines can be hard headed.

 

While a battle-brother may win himself accolades and the notice of those in charge he would still be unable to advance in rank if he was too young, not that he wouldn't be marked as an individual to be watched closely by the companies veterans and officers.

 

On the colour scheme I agree. I was thinking of making the yellow count for officers and veterans though, something to mark out an Elder, something even painted on Chaplain and Librarian armour for the elders of the groups.

 

On these grounds I think that it makes sense to have it as a universal color because "all Space Marines are heroes in their own right". Also, it can be used as another meaning for the marines being the arm of their people (or the people of the Imperium) and the Emperor.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Some very good points there KHK.

On Mass Effect 2, I only made passing reference, now that I know your position I shall surely refrain from actually mentioning any pertinent plot information! Last thing I wish is to find an enraged KHK on my tail! :)

As far as I remember, virus bombs are still limited to sanctioned use by a Warmaster and (probably) the High Lords of Terra. Simple Exterminatus would be sufficient, I think.

They may well be but I was meaning that their world was destroyed during the extended event of betrayal or their war against their former brother chapter. Their enemy wishing only the destruction of the Corsairs homeworld without thought to the consequences. If they were victorious they could say their actions were justified and if they were defeated then it wouldn't matter anyway.

This makes me think that your Chapter fleets have ships dedicated to carrying the entire population, unlike having them as Chapter serfs where they would be protected on board armed vessels. It doesn't make sense for a Chapter to leave itself vulnerable like this.

Indeed, though the problem with having an entire planets population on the chapters warships is that it leaves little room for the marines themselves. Conservatively a minor chapter typically only has enough ships for transportation of less than it's full number of companies or perhaps just enough. To include an entire worlds population as well would lead to some serious overcrowding issues. Where do you store all those people? This would lead to their battle-barge being turned into a civillian transporter rather than a planetary support dreadnought. Not only that but the individual ships would be very vulnerable anyway for if they were lost, so would a chunk of their recruiting base be as well.

I suppose what I mean is that a fleet would replace a homeworld in that it is a central location for their people and the chapter itself. It brings the marines back to their tribal roots, turning the fleet into one large tribe, the companies being dispatched independantly to bring enemies to task as efficiently as possible.

The other reason I like it is because it's different from the two typical kinds of chapter 'fleet based' and 'homeworld bound' but alike to both as well. The other thing is that I can't just add warships willy-nilly to the Corsairs fleet, making them ridiculously overpowered. The ying-yang of vulnerability and strength at the same time I think works well, though I am certainly not averse to dropping the entire concept if it proves too problematic to implement.

Even old marines can be hard headed.

While a battle-brother may win himself accolades and the notice of those in charge he would still be unable to advance in rank if he was too young, not that he wouldn't be marked as an individual to be watched closely by the companies veterans and officers.

Exactly. And while younger warriors of great talent may not be able to advance in traditionally in rank they would still be able to be chosen for a specific task given their skills in a certain area. Yes this system can lead to problems but the ultimately practical and pragmatic approach of pure survivalism inherited from the tribes can eliminate a lot of the more ego-driven problems. That said, they aren't perfect and neither do I intend them to be.

Perhaps, but for the most part (obvious exceptions including Space Wolves, Salamanders, etc.) Chapters have a mentality of ends justifying means. Even on Armageddon when the Marines Malevolent bombed an Ork prison camp they did it with the intent of destroying an Ork facility for producing technology. It can even be inferred (well, not from the Marines Malevolent point of view where they probably just wanted to hurt the Ork war machine) that the prisoners are better off dead, 'tis no mercy to let a slave live a slave, 'tis better to die on your feet than live on your knees, 'tis (and all that nice old world speech).

I understand that and perhaps you're right. The uncompromising approach of survival above all else that would be inherited from a desert-nomad tribal culture would also probably be more able to justify such an action.

Edit: Visual inspiration for the culture they come from.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/18/Gate_of_Felicity_Topkapi_Istanbul_2007_detail_003.jpg

Edit, Edit: I was searching for a way to differentiate the different companies if they are un-numbered and came across the arabic Tughra. It's a kind of stylised signiature. When you look at how arabic names are constructed (yet another wiki link here) it seemed to fit rather well. Having a company named something like "Vengeance of the four winds." Or something similar could be turned into something less word-heavy than in English by the use of a Tughra.

[Solomon de Gravier]

You've helped me on my IA so Imight as well return the favour! Comments in red and additions/subtractions in bold. Enjoy!

 

Mainly so people don't just think I talk the talk but not walk the walk as it were.

 

We have faith in your skills Ydalir :lol: *winks* ;)

 

Known Traits

• Psuedo Alpha Legion warfare specialists
  

What's Psuedo (I've heard it before. Is it fake?)? Will these guys be actual Alpha's or just fight like 'em?

 

• Bedouin/Desert Nomad cultural inspiration
  
• Have homeworld / Homeworld destroyed
  

If you go with the Nomad option then I'd have the Homeworld (yes. With a capital 'H') destroyed. Then they could roam the Galaxy much like the 'nomes.

 

I want you to come away from reading the IA and not be quite sure whether these guys are true loyalists or merely appearing to be, I want them wrapped up in the same mystery as the AL but done deliberately and not through confusing the reader.

 

I had the idea that AL are Traitors through-and-through. The seceracy sounds like a good idea. How will you pull it off?

 

1. Chapter is created
   

I find that the Chapter being created is a nice addition to the timeline. :lol:

 

1. Chapter arrives and claims homeworld
   

What does it look like? Any humans live there?

 

1. Neighbouring chapter they are sent to replace is not destroyed
   
2. Chapters become 'friends'
   
3. Corsairs discover other chapter is corrupt
   
4. Chapters both bash each other stupid
   

'The truth is that I was never killed. Luke, I am your father!'

'NNNNOOOOOO! I kill you!'

 

This might be a tiny bit cliched?

 

Where I am struggling is that I am not sure if I am competant enough of a writer to pull off the mystery and enigmatic intrigue that is required to give the Corsairs their due after the amount of times I've stuffed around with these guys to no avail.

 

Well, have a go and then we'll decide how good a writer you are.

 

My suggestion would be to sneak it up a notch. What I mean is how about not mentioning the Alpha Legion at all. Make it a mystery for the reader to solve. They are Alpha Legion after all, the sneakiest of the sneakiest.

 

'Who are you?'

'Ydalir, I am the Alpha Legion!'

 

meh!

 

This is good. Now make it into paragraphs of solid writing and work from there.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

EDIT: Because Octavulg is evil/smarter than me.

[Octavulg]

Pseudo means something between artificial and knockoff.

[Donkey Kong]

On Mass Effect 2, I only made passing reference, now that I know your position I shall surely refrain from actually mentioning any pertinent plot information! Last thing I wish is to find an enraged KHK on my tail! ^_^

 

Greatly appreciated ^_^ !

 

They may well be but I was meaning that their world was destroyed during the extended event of betrayal or their war against their former brother chapter. Their enemy wishing only the destruction of the Corsairs homeworld without thought to the consequences. If they were victorious they could say their actions were justified and if they were defeated then it wouldn't matter anyway.

 

Maybe it's just one of the "in my version of the 40k universe" things, but just look at the situation for what it is, if you're not allowed to use something, in this case Virus Bombs, why would you even be granted access to them. You don't give an automatic weapon to a child (unless you're in desperate needs of new recruits, have skewered definitions of "child" or running some kind of child army like in undeveloped nations), you don't give virus bombs to someone who can't use them.

 

There was a thread a while back questioning why Ferrus Manus didn't virus bomb the traitors at Isstvan V. While it wass a very valid suggestion that firing a virus on dug in troops is fruitless (as demonstrated at Isstvan III when the loyalists survived by hiding in bunkers), I always thought the simpler idea was that he didn't have them. Ferrus, Vulkan and Corax weren't authorized to use them, that decision was left solely with the Emperor and the Warmaster (which is why Horus was able to virus bomb Isstvan III).

 

To present another argument, getting shot in the brain or getting a lethal injection has the same result, death. To some, one method is crueler than the other, however, the ends are always the same, and the ends are what matter (in the end, of course). The universe has some cruel tech, and even crueler means. I'm sure you've heard the story in the latest Guard Codex where the Death Korps of Krieg siege a world from orbit for ten years because orders were to demolish everything. The length of time isn't necessary, but lance strikes, nuclear warheads, all kinds of high explosive and chemical weapons, the other Chapter could completely destroy the world in more ways than one, none necessarily any less merciless than a viral bombing.

 

Indeed, though the problem with having an entire planets population on the chapters warships is that it leaves little room for the marines themselves. Conservatively a minor chapter typically only has enough ships for transportation of less than it's full number of companies or perhaps just enough. To include an entire worlds population as well would lead to some serious overcrowding issues. Where do you store all those people? This would lead to their battle-barge being turned into a civillian transporter rather than a planetary support dreadnought. Not only that but the individual ships would be very vulnerable anyway for if they were lost, so would a chunk of their recruiting base be as well.

 

I suppose what I mean is that a fleet would replace a homeworld in that it is a central location for their people and the chapter itself. It brings the marines back to their tribal roots, turning the fleet into one large tribe, the companies being dispatched independantly to bring enemies to task as efficiently as possible.

 

The other reason I like it is because it's different from the two typical kinds of chapter 'fleet based' and 'homeworld bound' but alike to both as well. The other thing is that I can't just add warships willy-nilly to the Corsairs fleet, making them ridiculously overpowered. The ying-yang of vulnerability and strength at the same time I think works well, though I am certainly not averse to dropping the entire concept if it proves too problematic to implement.

 

There is the issue of scale. I don't remember you ever saying what the world was (developing, feral, hive, etc.), but if it was already a nomadic culture, the population is inherently smaller. Imperial Ships, even Space Marine Battle Barges and Strike Cruisers, are orbital cities. Together, there isn't much need to explain why the people can fit.

 

Furthermore, even a marine chapter, especially a nomadic one, doesn't want to carry around dead weight. From Mass Effect, the Quarians had to make a pilgrimage to bring something useful back to the flotilla, you have the people work on the barge. So while, yes, the people are like ratings on the ship, working guns, doing menial tasks, serving as ship security, they're contributing to the vessel, returning your "civilian transport" back to a "planetary support dreadnought".

 

While you can't add warships, you can say that they have "more", whether by making them an older Chapter or some other means. You can also make some larger, The Eternal Crusader is double the size of a standard Battle Barge, and the Black Templars manage.

 

Another little tidbit, if the recruiting base is born and bred in the void, you might include something more on reinforcing bones when taking recruits, weaker immune systems, and what not. Perhaps a larger fatality rate from the gene seed implants?

 

Exactly. And while younger warriors of great talent may not be able to advance in traditionally in rank they would still be able to be chosen for a specific task given their skills in a certain area. Yes this system can lead to problems but the ultimately practical and pragmatic approach of pure survivalism inherited from the tribes can eliminate a lot of the more ego-driven problems. That said, they aren't perfect and neither do I intend them to be.

 

What I was meaning is that while Older members have command, not all of them do, but all of them can command respect, maybe even more so than other Chapters. I do wonder how this affects specialists though. Are Chaplains recruited from more senior members? What of Librarians and how does the Chapter feel about "new recruits" with supernatural powers (especially one with more feral/ nomadic roots)? And what of Techmarines, does the Chapter still select young members to be sent to Mars, or does it wait for more senior brothers to show technological know-how? How does the Chapter feel about younger brothers being trusted with handling their tech?

 

Also, if older living members have command already, how do the Chapter's dreadnoughts fit within the hierarchy?

 

Edit, Edit: I was searching for a way to differentiate the different companies if they are un-numbered and came across the arabic Tughra. It's a kind of stylised signiature. When you look at how arabic names are constructed (yet another wiki link here) it seemed to fit rather well. Having a company named something like "Vengeance of the four winds." Or something similar could be turned into something less word-heavy than in English by the use of a Tughra.

 

Certainly an interesting and unique way to do it.

 

By the way, has my hammering repetition of opinion on the paint scheme influenced you yet :lol: ?