Corsairs Serpentis

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Furthermore, even a marine chapter, especially a nomadic one, doesn't want to carry around dead weight. From Mass Effect, the Quarians had to make a pilgrimage to bring something useful back to the flotilla, you have the people work on the barge. So while, yes, the people are like ratings on the ship, working guns, doing menial tasks, serving as ship security, they're contributing to the vessel, returning your "civilian transport" back to a "planetary support dreadnought".

 

Well the real focus of the issue for me is to be able for the people to keep their nomadic roots. In essence each ship would harbour one of the larger tribes and any small tribes would be taken under their 'protection' so to speak.

 

In such a way this would end up with each ship being a 'tribe' ship and would therefore need a fair number of ships. In my original post I described the homeworld as being a large desert world. And while nomads are typically few in number, the size of the planet and the spreading out of the people does dilute the population considerably, there would still be a fair number of them.

 

It may create problems with ship facilities as well, a Battle Barge would really be the only ship with enough facilities to properly induct new recruits. Which tribe gets the Barge? If none of them do they would have to share it.

 

Really I want to keep their cultural heritage of the homeworld with them, without having it diluted by new recruits from other cultures. Yes if they recruit from other nomadic peoples they come across this is, for the most part, solved but just how many worlds with nomadic human cultures on them are there?

 

 

What I was meaning is that while Older members have command, not all of them do, but all of them can command respect, maybe even more so than other Chapters. I do wonder how this affects specialists though. Are Chaplains recruited from more senior members? What of Librarians and how does the Chapter feel about "new recruits" with supernatural powers (especially one with more feral/ nomadic roots)? And what of Techmarines, does the Chapter still select young members to be sent to Mars, or does it wait for more senior brothers to show technological know-how? How does the Chapter feel about younger brothers being trusted with handling their tech?

 

Well, I think those with the right temperament and talents would be moved to the appropriate section of the chapters hirearchy as early as possible. However they would not weild the same power of office that they would in another chapter simply because of their position.

 

An older Reclusiarch may well be put in charge of a war-party but a younger Chaplain would simply be taken along with it, deferring command to a more experienced battle-brother. This does not belittle his position, he is a Chaplain not a captain and also in the Corsairs Chaplains are the judicators, they uphold and prosecute chapter law (perhaps this was in the original post, I don't think I mentioned it here yet).

 

As to Librarians, I never really envisioned the Corsairs as much of a psyker chapter, however that doesn't mean they wouldn't exist. Librarians would be more akin to advisers, using their talents at the request of the Elders to help determine the best course of action, not to mention their abilities on the battlefield. Again, an older Librarian would command a greater respect among his peers and give him the possibility of leadership or command.

 

I would think Apothacaries would be very highly praised, given the survivalist nature of their culture anyone that has the skills to keep his brothers alive on and off the field of battle would be a great boon. I'd expect the Apothacarium to be larger with this chapter, a result of younger marines jockying to become an apprentice to an older Apothacary due to the amount of respect wielded by this position.

 

Techmarines are a little different true. However if you look at it from a pure survival point of view as I have mentioned earlier, anyone who can keep the ships, vehicles and weapons of war in working condition is an asset to the chapter. The Corsairs and the people of their homeworld are eminently practical and pragmatic in all things. Perhaps not the most respected position in the chapter given their split loyalties to the brotherhood and Mars at the same time, their skills would likely be appreciated nonetheless.

 

As to dreadnoughts. Well, I would rather think something in the cultures way of thinking would cut dreadnoughts out of the loop completely. When a brother is too badly injured to continue his service it would be seen as a mercy to put them out of their misery and to prevent them being a drain on the chapters resources. Much like the Grey Knights, dreadnoughts would be exceedingly rare and only be granted to a wounded marine if he had both requested it and had the weight of experience and the position it gives him within the chapters hirearchy behind him.

 

Yes I got your oh so subtle hints on the colour scheme, perhaps the yellow can stay for all the marines then. Makes them suitably less stealthy but I think I can live with that. :sweat:

[Donkey Kong]

And while nomads are typically few in number, the size of the planet and the spreading out of the people does dilute the population considerably, there would still be a fair number of them.

 

Under these circumstances, there's the issue of how you're exactly rounding up all of the stray tribes while the world is being glassed.

 

However if you look at it from a pure survival point of view as I have mentioned earlier, anyone who can keep the ships, vehicles and weapons of war in working condition is an asset to the chapter.

 

This is what I was suggesting the nomadic people should work to be. What do you plan to have the tribes and their descendants do after they're saved from their burning homes? They have to work on the Chapter ships, or else they're just taking up space. And if they're working, the Ship is no longer populated by a bunch of pilgrims, but is returned to a war capable status.

 

When a brother is too badly injured to continue his service it would be seen as a mercy to put them out of their misery and to prevent them being a drain on the chapters resources.

 

Very White Scars-y. However, there doesn't seem to be much drain when a sarcophagi is just propped up against a wall. If you follow the White Scars a little more, or even the Grey Knights, have the idea that peace with the Emperor is earned through giving their lives. Word of warning, if you follow it too closely, there won't be any dreadnoughts.

 

Yes I got your oh so subtle hints on the colour scheme, perhaps the yellow can stay for all the marines then. Makes them suitably less stealthy but I think I can live with that.

 

Woohoo! Now, if you'll excuse me, I have a happy dance to make ;) .

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Under these circumstances, there's the issue of how you're exactly rounding up all of the stray tribes while the world is being glassed.

 

I'd assume they couldn't save everyone, but that the fact that they recruited from the tribes for many years would allow them a certain knowledge of their travelling patterns around what little resources there were on the planet. Given the scarce nature of water and food, no tribe would be too far away from any oasis which is virtually the only place such resources could be found in relative abundance.

 

Also, your argument as to the virus bombs holds more weight than my own. I think regular bombardment would work just as well given they only need to pound the planet enough to crack the crust and send all manner of unhealthy substances into the atmosphere and to blanket the world in darkness.

 

This is what I was suggesting the nomadic people should work to be. What do you plan to have the tribes and their descendants do after they're saved from their burning homes? They have to work on the Chapter ships, or else they're just taking up space. And if they're working, the Ship is no longer populated by a bunch of pilgrims, but is returned to a war capable status.

 

Burning tents and oasis' I'll thank you. ;)

In any case the problem lies in retianing their individual, nomadic roots that the chapter draws upon when they are stuck in what are essentially bloody great metal containers, the closest thing they have ever had to a static home they have ever known. There is no more wandering between resources, no more hunting and no more tribal warfare to keep them strong. They essentially become the chapter serfs and the Corsairs would really be better served by recruiting from elsewhere rather than these nomads-turned-ship mechanics.

 

 

All this is great stuff but there is a danger with me that if given far too much information to process I can easily get overwhelmed and my mind will go into meltdown. I'd like to focus on the origins exclusively for the moment to combat this and while yes, that is exactly what we've been talking about, issues like organisation can be fleshed out somewhat later.

 

I want this to be completed dearly, so to be safe I am going to take it one step at a time.

 

Appreciate all the help KHK! ^_^

[Donkey Kong]

I'd assume they couldn't save everyone, but that the fact that they recruited from the tribes for many years would allow them a certain knowledge of their travelling patterns around what little resources there were on the planet. Given the scarce nature of water and food, no tribe would be too far away from any oasis which is virtually the only place such resources could be found in relative abundance.

 

Perhaps, but this assumes that absolute chaos won't ensue after the bombs drop around the world. Modern day nukes have a 10+ mile blast radius. An actual lance strike is supposed to crack tectonic plates. How is the Chapter supposed to round them up? Send out a Thunderhawk to every Oasis and hope that some of the tribes decide to retreat there (for god knows what reason considering the sky is falling).

 

They can't rally on the Fortress Monastery considering how this will probably be the first thing hit. If you include some kind of holy landmark on a continent, it would make sense for the tribes to trek there, possibly even while the world is being washed over into a nuclear wasteland. Although, then I would question why exactly the Monastery isn't built on the holy land, or it could be and then you could have the people making the long march to the ruins.

 

In any case the problem lies in retianing their individual, nomadic roots that the chapter draws upon when they are stuck in what are essentially bloody great metal containers, the closest thing they have ever had to a static home they have ever known. There is no more wandering between resources, no more hunting and no more tribal warfare to keep them strong. They essentially become the chapter serfs and the Corsairs would really be better served by recruiting from elsewhere rather than these nomads-turned-ship mechanics.

 

"You can take a tiger from the jungle, but you can't take the jungle from the tiger." What matters, the traditions of the people, aren't going to change that drastically.

 

Appreciate all the help KHK!

 

'Tis what I'm here for :)

[Ace Debonair]

In any case the problem lies in retianing their individual, nomadic roots that the chapter draws upon when they are stuck in what are essentially bloody great metal containers, the closest thing they have ever had to a static home they have ever known. There is no more wandering between resources, no more hunting and no more tribal warfare to keep them strong. They essentially become the chapter serfs and the Corsairs would really be better served by recruiting from elsewhere rather than these nomads-turned-ship mechanics.

 

 

Then the real question is this - are the Corsairs looking for another world for their people to populate?

If not, I suppose you could have the tribesmen take the view that the Corsairs themselves are guiding them across the endless sky from oasis to oasis.

If so, however, the Corsairs could put their tribesmen on multiple worlds to a) minimize chances of their entire recruitment stock being wiped out, and :lol: give you a reason to stay fleet-based. :P

 

I'm looking forward to seeing these guys really come to life, so hopefully one of these ideas is useful or close to the mark. ;)

If not, just pretend this post doesn't exist. :D

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

"You can take a tiger from the jungle, but you can't take the jungle from the tiger." What matters, the traditions of the people, aren't going to change that drastically.

 

The problem is that over generations traditions change. Not only that but the environmental factors that made them such a hardy people will be left behind.

The challenge is how to keep them up to scratch as recruitment material. The reason I suggested a migrant fleet was that giving the people their own ships for the tribes to 'belong' to and giving them essentially the reigns to their own survival would keep them strong and while it may make the chapter weak in a sense, it also keeps the people strong enough to be useful.

 

Perhaps, but this assumes that absolute chaos won't ensue after the bombs drop around the world. Modern day nukes have a 10+ mile blast radius. An actual lance strike is supposed to crack tectonic plates. How is the Chapter supposed to round them up? Send out a Thunderhawk to every Oasis and hope that some of the tribes decide to retreat there (for god knows what reason considering the sky is falling).

 

Well the planet is quite large and far from being densely populated. I'd assume also that during any rescue the Corsairs fleet would be taking the fight to their enemies, while their enemies would be trying to keep themselves alive and bombard the planet which would lead to them losing the battle, but not before they had turned the homeworld into a ruined mess.

 

Perhaps though it would be easier to leave the people where they are and simply have them adapt to an even harsher world. Establish a fortress monestary for the Tribes to retreat to in times of dire threat (simply because I had not planned on there being one built at all), maybe even moving the entire population underground, I don't rightly know because I haven't even thought about this option until now.

 

Then the real question is this - are the Corsairs looking for another world for their people to populate?

If not, I suppose you could have the tribesmen take the view that the Corsairs themselves are guiding them across the endless sky from oasis to oasis.

 

Maybe, I'm not entirely sure to be honest and it is something I originally thought possible. The Migrant fleet is guided to a new homeworld by the Corsairs, their temporary crusade to find a new world suitable to their needs being the challenge that guides them.

 

If so, however, the Corsairs could put their tribesmen on multiple worlds to a) minimize chances of their entire recruitment stock being wiped out, and give you a reason to stay fleet-based.

 

Now that is something I hadn't considered. It could work quite well, though I'm not sure just what stance the rest of the Imperium would take to an Astartes chapter seeding worlds with it's own totally loyal population just for it's own recruitment. It may even be seen as a long-term play for power, to carve out their own domain. It is interesting nonetheless, but I'm having to judge increasingly varied approaches to the same problem and am finding it rather difficult.

 

In the end they all have to be able to drive the Corsairs forward, to push them into the next part of their 'story'.

 

That said I'm thinking of removing the entire idea of the two chapters fighting one another as for the life of me (and some very long, very late, hair-pullingly frustrating sessions with my computer) cannot find a way to make it work believably without seeming cliche or done to death.

 

The problem lies in how exactly the two chapters go from brothers to enemies in a short space of time. While there are many good overall concepts, actually implementing them is rather hard. If something is 'not right' with the Star Adders how the hell does it become aparrent enough for their loyal brothers to question them on it?

 

As such I've been working on other sections, working around the problem until I can find a way to convincingly (for myself) deal with it.

[Donkey Kong]

Considering how much I love to push my opinion and will unto others, this is going to come as somewhat of a surprise, I'm sure :) . You should listen to Ace. Not only should you listen to Ace, you should listen to every word that comes out of this boys mouth with your undivided attention.

 

The problem is that over generations traditions change. Not only that but the environmental factors that made them such a hardy people will be left behind. The challenge is how to keep them up to scratch as recruitment material. The reason I suggested a migrant fleet was that giving the people their own ships for the tribes to 'belong' to and giving them essentially the reigns to their own survival would keep them strong and while it may make the chapter weak in a sense, it also keeps the people strong enough to be useful.

 

The problem with this all is that they're still stuck in the void. They're moving, but they're not really doing anything. Ships in 40k are cities, not nomadic environments where shortage of supplies is going to kill y- . . . oh wait.

 

Never mind, the point is, if you want to retain the nomadic nature, having them in migrant space fleets simply will not do. The Quarians are suitably technologically savvy to deal with any problems that arise in their vessels, but you don't want a ship full of "nomad heritage mechanics". Furthermore, there's the slew of issues that comes with being void borne for extended periods of time:

- brittle bones

- lower gravity tolerance

- weakness

- immune system deficiency

 

Not a good space marine recruit makes.

 

If they're "planting" recruits on a number of worlds, it could have some very interesting results. Furthermore, you can even have some working about the nuclear waste that was their home, albeit it sounds somewhat like Krieg without the cloning undertones (or have they confirmed that yet?).

 

They can still have a migrant fleet, moving between all of their worlds. It would be sort of interesting seeing them tracking their people throughout the sector, maybe even being called to war because of an attack on a world with a portion of their old population.

 

Plus, all of these worlds could be a number of oases. The fleet could move between worlds, periodically transporting people and expanding the gene pool.

 

The problem lies in how exactly the two chapters go from brothers to enemies in a short space of time.

 

There lies your problem. Short period tensions rarely lead to immediate armed conflict. Drag it out, have difference in opinion, the Star Adders could be a bit more cruel with their justice, the Corsairs are already pretty harsh (death penalty), you can have, as I said, the difference in opinion of loyalty (to the Emperor, to the Imperium).

 

Just remember it's not a joint IA, the Star Adders aren't important beyond a betrayed trust and a nuking of homes. Plus, the Corsairs should really just take revenge and show how ruthless their justice is. A point can be that humans can still survive under the world's surface on the Corsairs' home, but the Star Adders get their world cracked open and nothing is living there for a good, long time.

[Ace Debonair]

Considering how much I love to push my opinion and will unto others, this is going to come as somewhat of a surprise, I'm sure <_< . You should listen to Ace. Not only should you listen to Ace, you should listen to every word that comes out of this boys mouth with your undivided attention.

:o That's in my signature now. Subliminal messaging. :)

 

 

If so, however, the Corsairs could put their tribesmen on multiple worlds to a) minimize chances of their entire recruitment stock being wiped out, and give you a reason to stay fleet-based.

Now that is something I hadn't considered. It could work quite well, though I'm not sure just what stance the rest of the Imperium would take to an Astartes chapter seeding worlds with it's own totally loyal population just for it's own recruitment. It may even be seen as a long-term play for power, to carve out their own domain. It is interesting nonetheless, but I'm having to judge increasingly varied approaches to the same problem and am finding it rather difficult.

 

I'd have nobody important say that. Besides, there's always the potential that whichever radical proposes such a ridiculous idea is right... ;)

Equally, you could have it so they only officially claim one world, and discreetly spread their people out to other worlds that one of their companies secures. They do this so that should they be attacked a further time, there will always be recruits even if their 'official' homeworld is wiped out.

 

Just trying some Alpha-Legion-esque reasoning. :lol:

Again, feel free to ignore these ideas if they don't gel with what you want.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Plus, all of these worlds could be a number of oases. The fleet could move between worlds, periodically transporting people and expanding the gene pool.

 

I suppose, they could drop them on similar, undeveloped worlds, but I don't really want to have them move away from the desert culture that inspired me in the first place.

 

Perhaps they could simply find another desert world, but that would be a bit convenient, unless I go into how they searched the galaxy far and wide during a pilgrimage to find a new homeworld for their people.

 

- brittle bones

- lower gravity tolerance

- weakness

- immune system deficiency

 

These problems are associated with a combination of zero or low gravity and hermetically sealed environments. An Imperial warship would probably be the least sterile place in the galaxy and while the Astartes are much more efficient, they don't need to worry about common diseases and infections either so they would not be bothered with such extreme methods of sterilisation of normal living environs.

 

Imperial ships have artificial gravity enough I'd have thought not to cause problems and the immune deficiencies may well not be a problem given the proximity to the supremely accomplished Apothacaries.

 

 

An idea I just had is that while the bedouin are nomads they still trade with their more civilised counterparts, perhaps dropping them on a semi-civilised world would be worth it, they would be more protected than before but probably under the mandate of not having the original inhabitants intefere with them too much for fear of bringing the Corsairs down on their heads, or perhaps the Corsairs allow their people to stand on their own because they view the struggle as making for good marines. A feudal world perhaps.

 

Just remember it's not a joint IA, the Star Adders aren't important beyond a betrayed trust and a nuking of homes. Plus, the Corsairs should really just take revenge and show how ruthless their justice is. A point can be that humans can still survive under the world's surface on the Corsairs' home, but the Star Adders get their world cracked open and nothing is living there for a good, long time.

 

Dragging the relationship out would seem to be the best way to go, though I'm not sure just what exactly I am to do to clearly discriminate between the ruthless but, in their minds, fair judgement of the Corsairs and something they would disagree with bar something over the top ridiculous like the Iron Hands tendancy to wipe out entire population centers needlessly.

 

Edit: Didn't see your post there Ace, I've had my half-written reply on the screen all day and completely forgot about it till now.

 

I'd have nobody important say that. Besides, there's always the potential that whichever radical proposes such a ridiculous idea is right...

Equally, you could have it so they only officially claim one world, and discreetly spread their people out to other worlds that one of their companies secures. They do this so that should they be attacked a further time, there will always be recruits even if their 'official' homeworld is wiped out.

 

Just trying some Alpha-Legion-esque reasoning.

 

I was thinking of dropping the entire line of Alpha Legion involvment since it is a little hard to allude to. However, I really like this idea and is definetly something that does gel with the overall feel of the chapter. Thank you matey, that was a great idea. :lol:

[Ace Debonair]

Happy to help.

I have so many ideas that sooner or later one of them has to be good. :lol:

 

Keeping to desert worlds is not a bad idea, but there's also bound to be deserts on other worlds too. They could stay there without anyone else even knowing of their existence...

 

Just make it not so much Alpha-Legion-ish as playing it safe. Unless, of course, you choose to look at it that way. And then near the end maybe use a sidebar or something to perhaps draw attention to the fact there's another possible explanation for their actions. ;)

 

I'd try and think up something else while I'm here, but I'm waaay to tired to activate my brain. :P

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

I like the way you think Ace, very sneaky. ;)

 

I think gradually with the influx of ideas and different ways to follow them through I will be able to make a decision. Perhaps soon I will post up some prelininary ramblings on the chapter I have been working on rather than simply bash my head up against the problem-wall that I had before.

[Donkey Kong]

Perhaps they could simply find another desert world

 

As Ace said, they could just stay in the desert regions of other worlds.

 

Dragging the relationship out would seem to be the best way to go, though I'm not sure just what exactly I am to do to clearly discriminate between the ruthless but, in their minds, fair judgement of the Corsairs and something they would disagree with bar something over the top ridiculous like the Iron Hands tendancy to wipe out entire population centers needlessly.

 

Iron Hands had the hatred of weakness, their tendency to inflict pain was based on a skewered personal opinion.

The Corsairs are justified in wanting to destroy the Star Adders home world because of the destruction of their own at their hands. You also have to look at it from another prospective, the way I imagine it anyway, "What you do to me, I will do to you tenfold."

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Iron Hands had the hatred of weakness, their tendency to inflict pain was based on a skewered personal opinion.

I understand that completely, however it doesn't make their actions any less heinous or indeed 'over the top' just because they have a skewed view of the world. You could say the same of just about every war-criminal in history but that doesn't take away from the fact that they killed a lot of people and that their actions and reactions were deemed extreme. The Iron Hands simply exist in a universe that doesn't take issue with their tactics.

 

I also think you missed the point slightly. ^_^

 

Any retaliation by the Corsairs after their homeworld is destroyed is more than justified. What I am having trouble with is finding an issue between the two chapter that would lead them to come to blows over.

 

In the end I've narrowed it down to either something intrinsically incompatible like a difference of beliefs (A bit real-world topical but it works for that very reason) or a change in the Star Adders / a side to them is shown that the Corsairs didn't know about.

 

Perhaps the Corsairs discover something deviant in their allies beliefs that causes them to question their loyalties that sparks the conflict. On their beliefs, I'm not sure. Maybe the Star Adders have something to hide that the Corsairs stumble upon, though I've no idea what exactly.

 

Or perhaps the Star Adders leave the Corsairs home, only to return however many hundred or even a thousand years later and be very different to how they were remembered. The way I imagined it was that the Star Adders would return and start demanding tribute from the worlds in the Corsairs domain, maybe even selfishly diverting resources away from a warzone where the Corsairs are fighting, causing them to both lose men and question the motives of the Star Adders.

[Donkey Kong]

however it doesn't make their actions any less heinous or indeed 'over the top' just because they have a skewed view of the world.

 

Who is more vile, the individual who is tricked or forced into committing genocide, or the individual who does so willingly and convinces others to help him?

There is a reason court rulings also cover intent, not just the action and the result.

 

I also think you missed the point slightly.

 

Possibly, but I was tired and I think I had a pretty good argument going ;) !

 

The way I imagined it was that the Star Adders would return and start demanding tribute from the worlds in the Corsairs domain, maybe even selfishly diverting resources away from a warzone where the Corsairs are fighting, causing them to both lose men and question the motives of the Star Adders.

 

By domain, do you mean the area of space the Corsairs are responsible for? Alternatively, they could have already begun planting tribes on other worlds, the Star Adders could requisition resources unknowingly from these worlds, not only threatening the Corsairs, but leading them to question the motives of the Star Adders, what they know, and how they will hide or address the issue.

 

I like the conflict more when it has other options and possibly mistakes (what makes a real tragedy, me thinks, like Oedipus without the angst :lol: ).

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

I like the idea of spreading their homeworld's people around so I think I'll put that in.

 

Who is more vile, the individual who is tricked or forced into committing genocide, or the individual who does so willingly and convinces others to help him?

There is a reason court rulings also cover intent, not just the action and the result.

 

Honestly? They both have their failings. I also take issue with being 'forced' to commit genocide. You always have a choice, the options might be bad and worse, but you still have that choice. It's rather hard to be tricked into genocide isn't it? Something of that magnitude is somewhat hard to miss.

 

Many of the German beaurocrats who signed transportation orders for the jews knew that something bad was going to happen to them, just not what. Having some independant thought might have helped there.

 

In any case this is wildly off topic and is something that generates very strong opinions.

 

By domain, do you mean the area of space the Corsairs are responsible for? Alternatively, they could have already begun planting tribes on other worlds, the Star Adders could requisition resources unknowingly from these worlds, not only threatening the Corsairs, but leading them to question the motives of the Star Adders, what they know, and how they will hide or address the issue.

 

Now this is where it gets difficult. It has to be something that can create a really strong reaction on both sidesof the conflict but has to also be something that isn't blatantly obvious, like chaos worship or renegadism or whatever. The one thing I don't want is an issue that seems as obvious as a truck running into your living room. The problem is the issue has to be at least a little complex and much more subtle than usual which makes thinking of what it is rather difficult, which is why I keep retreading over the same spot over and over. I just can't think of a satisfactory answer.

[Donkey Kong]

I like the idea of spreading their homeworld's people around so I think I'll put that in.

 

See what Ace and I are doing to you? I guess persistence really is the key ;) !

 

In any case this is wildly off topic and is something that generates very strong opinions.

 

Without getting into the molarity of the thing, it's the difference between: "just following orders" and the one giving the orders.

 

The problem is the issue has to be at least a little complex and much more subtle than usual which makes thinking of what it is rather difficult, which is why I keep retreading over the same spot over and over. I just can't think of a satisfactory answer.

 

The way I understand it, you want to have it so that you don't know whether the Corsairs winning is good or bad, basically, both sides have ambiguous intents.

I think it would be easier to do this by making the Corsairs more shady, like I said, spreading their people throughout the sub sector or sector.

If you want the ambiguity, I recommend not using anything like a disagreement between loyalty to the Emperor or to the Imperium.

[Guest Mordray]

Might I suggest something a bit under used...

 

The outsider looking in.

 

 

I'd suggest using side bars and have them be in the personal notes style of an individual investigating the Corsair's. This could be where you tie in the question of just what really happened.

 

edit: oh and don't use an inquisitor...

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

See what Ace and I are doing to you? I guess persistence really is the key :P !

 

It's like going ten rounds with a Great Unclean one. Doesn't matter how skillful you are, how hard you hit or how often, it will likely drag you down through sheer endurance. ;)

 

Pity I'm not a Librarian really, but I digress.

 

Without getting into the molarity of the thing, it's the difference between: "just following orders" and the one giving the orders.

 

You follow an order you know is wrong and you are just as culpable, no way no how you can avoid having the choice to refuse and choosing not to, no matter the circumstances.

 

Also... Molarity? Do you perhaps mean Morality? :wacko:

 

The way I understand it, you want to have it so that you don't know whether the Corsairs winning is good or bad, basically, both sides have ambiguous intents.

I think it would be easier to do this by making the Corsairs more shady, like I said, spreading their people throughout the sub sector or sector.

If you want the ambiguity, I recommend not using anything like a disagreement between loyalty to the Emperor or to the Imperium.

 

I agree completely with not using any sort of loyalty or core beliefs as fodder for the rift between the two chapters, it's too obvious and not nearly smart enough to use for this type of plot.

I've really given myself a hard task here haven't I?

 

I do really like the idea of making the Corsairs more shady though. I like it a lot and is something more easily done.

 

I want them to come off like, you think that they are probably the good guys, but you don't know for certain given the nature of the conflict. Maybe the Star Adders were the instigators and the bad ones, but you don't know that for sure.

 

Difficulty and Subtlety are directly related in IA's, that's absolute.

 

Might I suggest something a bit under used...

 

The outsider looking in.

 

 

I'd suggest using side bars and have them be in the personal notes style of an individual investigating the Corsair's. This could be where you tie in the question of just what really happened.

 

edit: oh and don't use an inquisitor...

 

That's a good idea Mordray, something that could fit in quite well, I'll have to have a play around with it.

 

And to allay your fears, Inquisitors are definetly not the way I want to go with this chapter.

[Ace Debonair]

See what Ace and I are doing to you? I guess persistence really is the key -_- !

 

It's like going ten rounds with a Great Unclean one. Doesn't matter how skillful you are, how hard you hit or how often, it will likely drag you down through sheer endurance. ;)

Thank you for that charming reference, GHY. I'll have you know I shower daily. :sweat:

 

The way I understand it, you want to have it so that you don't know whether the Corsairs winning is good or bad, basically, both sides have ambiguous intents.

I think it would be easier to do this by making the Corsairs more shady, like I said, spreading their people throughout the sub sector or sector.

If you want the ambiguity, I recommend not using anything like a disagreement between loyalty to the Emperor or to the Imperium.

 

I agree completely with not using any sort of loyalty or core beliefs as fodder for the rift between the two chapters, it's too obvious and not nearly smart enough to use for this type of plot.

I've really given myself a hard task here haven't I?

 

I do really like the idea of making the Corsairs more shady though. I like it a lot and is something more easily done.

 

The way I'd play this one (ideally) is that at first glance it looks a lot like the Corsairs are definitely the good guys. But on the second read-through... :P

 

What could spark that conflict...? Perhaps during a difficult, tense campaign the Adders try to orbitally bombard an area over-run by enemies, even though it will mean losing Corsair lives into the bargain? And then perhaps the Adders happen to find themselves in a situation where they can return the favour? And perhaps eventually the Adders lose someone important, like a Chapter Master?

 

I admit, I'm tired, and this is a very, very rough idea. :lol:

Hopefully it contains a pinch of inspiration, though.

 

I like the way you think Ace, very sneaky.

Deviousness is my middle name. I prefer not to use it though, because I get a lot of funny looks when I do.

[Donkey Kong]

Also... Molarity? Do you perhaps mean Morality?

 

No, molarity. The number of Moles of awesome per liter of Space Marines. :rolleyes:

 

By the way, I prefer Keeper of Secrets, but I digress.

 

What could spark that conflict...? Perhaps during a difficult, tense campaign the Adders try to orbitally bombard an area over-run by enemies, even though it will mean losing Corsair lives into the bargain? And then perhaps the Adders happen to find themselves in a situation where they can return the favour? And perhaps eventually the Adders lose someone important, like a Chapter Master?

 

Unfortunately, I can't see how this can be used obscurely.

 

If you go with the Corsairs spreading their people around discretely --> conflict consumes the sub sector, millions of soldiers are mobilized, the Adders, believing they are aiding the Imperial War Effort make bastions that may interfere with the Corsair's people, Perhaps a thriving colony (or once thriving colony) of the Corsairs people is destroyed by the Adders, without knowing its importance to their brother Chapter.

 

The issue though, has to be that, from the Corsairs point of view, they don't know what the Adders know and are going paranoid trying to find out or hide their secrets.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

If you go with the Corsairs spreading their people around discretely --> conflict consumes the sub sector, millions of soldiers are mobilized, the Adders, believing they are aiding the Imperial War Effort make bastions that may interfere with the Corsair's people, Perhaps a thriving colony (or once thriving colony) of the Corsairs people is destroyed by the Adders, without knowing its importance to their brother Chapter.

 

Now this I do like. Whether the Corsairs actually are being shady or simply practical and whether the Adders actually have a secret or not never comes into it, it's simply an action that takes place that sparks a feud between the two chapters regardless of it's intent or any other machinations. It works very well, thank you KHK. B)

 

Deviousness is my middle name. I prefer not to use it though, because I get a lot of funny looks when I do.

 

In all honesty I'd revel in that. It's like my best mate who used to introduce himself to everyone as Satan when he got a bit drunk.

 

No, molarity. The number of Moles of awesome per liter of Space Marines. :rolleyes:

 

Interesting..... so these moles of awesome, were can I get one? B)

 

By the way, I prefer Keeper of Secrets, but I digress.

 

Tzeentch (without the horrendous amount of mutation) and Khorne (without being a moron) are the only chaos gods I can dig it with.

 

Thank you for that charming reference, GHY. I'll have you know I shower daily. :lol:

 

Well I suppose you do what you can with what time you have. ;)

[Donkey Kong]

It works very well, thank you KHK.

 

I told you I was going to see the Corsairs through :rolleyes: !

 

Interesting..... so these moles of awesome, were can I get one?

 

Well, a single mole won't do you much good, but listening to me and Ace is a step in the right direction.

[Ace Debonair]

Thank you for that charming reference, GHY. I'll have you know I shower daily. :lol:

 

Well I suppose you do what you can with what time you have. ;)

 

Well, if I spend more time in the shower, I'll be spending less time helping you with the Corsairs... B)

 

Deviousness is my middle name. I prefer not to use it though, because I get a lot of funny looks when I do.

In all honesty I'd revel in that. It's like my best mate who used to introduce himself to everyone as Satan when he got a bit drunk.

That was actually just an attempt at humour on my part. :rolleyes:

It sure beats the name I use in the real world, though. B)

 

To KHK's point, my last idea was rather at odds with the subtlety aspect of the chapter and should be dismissed as the tired ramblings of a post-midnight-poster.

When my brain reactivates I'll see if I can work on it or come up with something more workable.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

That was actually just an attempt at humour on my part.

 

I understood that quite completely Ace don't you worry. I was simply commenting on how fun it would be to psyche people out with such a name, such as it is.

 

To KHK's point, my last idea was rather at odds with the subtlety aspect of the chapter and should be dismissed as the tired ramblings of a post-midnight-poster.

 

Don't worry, I understand that all too well.

 

The idea might lack subtlety but that doesn't mean it's unusable. I think it could work quite well as a kicking off point after the relationship between the two chapters has deteriorated far enough. While the Corsairs likely wouldn't shell the Adders men, the Adders don't have the same honour-code or temperament. Or perhaps the Corsairs were just baiting them? Who knows, who really knows... ;)

 

 

... Me of course. :blush:

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

So, Ydalir, when are you going to update the first post? :blush: