Corsairs Serpentis

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

When I feel I've got a good enough handle on the information already discussed and with what I have on my computer. It's a lot of re-writing, adding new bits and editing, along with the discussions with my regular helpers (Hats off to KHK and Ace for all their help) that usually seem to end in yet more additions and contemplation of what I already have, usually leading to more rewrites.

 

I'll have something up sooner or later.

[Dark Apostle Thirst]

I look forward to seeing the IA for the Cprsairs Serpentis ;)

[Argon]

No, molarity. The number of Moles of awesome per liter of Space Marines

 

Naturally, my inner Chem nerd wonders what the molar mass of awesome is :lol:.

 

 

Getting back on topic, I had an idea for the Corsairs. What if they attacked the Star Vipers because the Vipers did something the Corsairs found repulsive? Looking at the Bedouin justice systems link you gave, it seems they punish criminals with trial by ordeal. The way I'm seeing it, a Star Viper or Vipers do something the Corsairs find utterly repulsive. The Corsairs take matters into their own hands and demand the Marine(s) in question be tested through some ordeal.

 

The Viper(s) might refuse, they might accept. If they accept it, they fail. If they refuse, they might as well have failed anyways. Either way, the Corsairs see them as guilty and respond with force. It's probably too much force given the situation, but you can't reverse the past. The Vipers get pissed that the Corsairs attacked them and retaliate, which just escalates the whole affair until we get to the "nuking of homeworlds" part.

 

Would this work or am I just rambling?

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

Well it's certainly an idea, and it could tie in quite well to what I have been mulling over recently after re-reading all the replies in this thread.

 

The basic overview is this:

 

-Corsairs created to replace 'lost' Star Vipers chapter.

 

-Corsairs find Star Vipers naturally un-lost.

 

-Vipers leave the sector to allow Corsairs to find their own way.

 

-Corsairs take Alemin as homeworld and begin to assimilate the culture of the local nomad tribes.

 

-Corsairs begin transporting smaller tribes to other worlds with suitable areas to leave them, deserts and steppes for example. Ostensibly this is to ensure the survival of their people if the homeworld is destroyed or attacked, influenced by the practical survivalism of the tribesmen.

 

-Corsairs become properly established in the (as yet unknown) sector.

 

*The above section takes place over, lets say, about two to four hundred years to allow for everything to take place and be well established practice.*

 

-Vipers return during a flash-point crisis within the sector.

 

-Vipers unknowingly - bomb/accidentally wipe out some how/eradicate IH style - a planet containing a swathe of the Corsairs tribesmen.

 

*Now here is where your idea could come in Argon, that the Corsairs demand justice for the blood spilt and the Vipers refuse/fail the test, though I think refusing is better*

 

-Corsairs accuse Vipers of crimes against their chapter and peoples. Vipers refute the claims.

 

-Corsairs begin to work on undermining the Vipers in the sector, incensed at their refusal to go on trial or to make recompense for their crimes.

 

-Corsairs and Vipers come to blows as the flash-point/crisis begins to wind down.

 

-Corsairs drive the Vipers from the sector only for the majority of the older and more experienced chapters fleet to return and overwhelm the Corsairs defences at their homeworld, Alemin. They then proceed to split the planets mantle with repeated lance strikes as the surviving Corsairs ships rescue who they can before scattering across the sector.

 

-------------

 

 

Aaaand that's as far as I've gotten. Perhaps that's as far as I need to go, leaving the Vipers and Corsairs in a state of constant warfare, describing the chapter as having to use assymetrical warfare - similar to the Hashishim, historically so far as we can tell operated the same way, Wikia link here - to survive and strike back.

 

I don't envy the Mechanicus suppliers who have to endeavour to keep both chapters functioning while they are fighting each other.

 

Would the Imperium send a mediator to resolve the conflict? Would another local chapter intervene for the sake of stability? Should they stay at war or should the IA bring the conflict to a close? These are the questions I'm trying to solve at the moment.

 

Thanks for the idea Argon.

 

While I perhaps should have a more detailed IA to put up by now, I've been trying to rework it from the ground up and make sure that overall the story works and is stable before I start developing things properly. Some parts have started to form and others have not so for now the overview is all I really feel comfortable posting.

[Codex Grey]

First things first, welcome back Ydalir. Yeah, I'm a bit late, but better late than never.

 

I'm haven't been able to follow the discussion for various reasons, but I still try to keep myself updated on the progress.

 

Regarding if the Imperium or another Chapter would be involved, that would depend on how long the conflict lasts/has been going on, and on how much the conflict affects Imperial stability in the area. Are they able to perform they normal duties while also fighting against the other Chapter? Or is the conflict so severe that the entire Chapter's focus is on destroying the the other, neglecting they duties to Imperium?

If the conflict has not been drawn out over a long period of time, and collateral damage is low, then I think you could get away with it without interference from outside forces. And personally I think bringing in more people could make the whole story crowded.

 

But you also ask if the conflict should go on or if it should end. I know I'm just answering your questions with new questions, but what do you want out of this conflict? How do you want it to affect the Chapter? Does the conflict end and they learn something, anything from it? Does it continue and they must learn to deal with it?

Aside from being a cool story, what is it about this ongoing battle that is important to the Chapter, and what makes them n interesting Chapter?

 

I don't know if this is helpful at all, but I try. I'll be watching.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

First things first, welcome back Ydalir. Yeah, I'm a bit late, but better late than never.

 

Thanks Grey, I was looking forward to your input and I'm glad you chose to give it.

 

Are they able to perform they normal duties while also fighting against the other Chapter? Or is the conflict so severe that the entire Chapter's focus is on destroying the the other, neglecting they duties to Imperium?

 

In my mind it is an escalating conflict, getting worse as time goes on. The Corsairs push the Vipers out of the system only for the Vipers to return in force, pushing the conflict up a notch on the severity scale.

 

If the conflict has not been drawn out over a long period of time, and collateral damage is low, then I think you could get away with it without interference from outside forces. And personally I think bringing in more people could make the whole story crowded.

 

I think the same thing. I don't actually want to bring in anyone else, but depending on how bad the fighting gets I may have no choice than to write in at least some ancilliary figure that is attempting to get them to reconcile.

 

But you also ask if the conflict should go on or if it should end. I know I'm just answering your questions with new questions, but what do you want out of this conflict? How do you want it to affect the Chapter? Does the conflict end and they learn something, anything from it? Does it continue and they must learn to deal with it?

Aside from being a cool story, what is it about this ongoing battle that is important to the Chapter, and what makes them n interesting Chapter?

 

What I want to get out of the conflict are the 'shades of grey' that will give one or both of the chapters at least a little bit of doubt about their true motives while not bashing the reader over the head with the 'mystery stick' (aka, unknown geneseed, lost in the warp, enigmatic inquisitorial ties, etc etc).

 

At the very least it would hopefully cast the chapter in a different light to your typical IA.

 

I don't know if this is helpful at all, but I try. I'll be watching.

 

:P

 

Almost all input is helpful and greatly appreciated. Thanks Grey!

[Ace Debonair]

The question I have regarding ending the conflict is: what would happen to the two chapters?

 

Would one of them (the Vipers, I suspect) move out of the system for good, vowing never to return, or would they both stay in highly uneasy coexistence - aware that one false move could begin a war that may see the end of one or both chapters?

 

Naturally, my inner Chem nerd wonders what the molar mass of awesome is .

Seven. :blink:

[Donkey Kong]

You would have to clarify how the Vipers lost contact with the Imperium, I think.

 

the Corsairs demand justice for the blood spilt

 

Does this mean the Corsairs reveal that they have been spreading their people throughout the sector?

 

I think the same thing. I don't actually want to bring in anyone else, but depending on how bad the fighting gets I may have no choice than to write in at least some ancilliary figure that is attempting to get them to reconcile.

 

In an event like this, an Inquisitor wouldn't be a bad idea at all. The Inquisitor could even be playing favorites, maybe against the Corsairs leading to an assassination of sorts, not that it would come off as anything but some kind of food poisoning :tu: .

 

What I want to get out of the conflict are the 'shades of grey'

 

Is this conflict also akin to The Lion and the Wolf, scratch the honorable bits? What would you call this one? The Snake and the Viper?

 

I think it shows a bit more ruthlessness if the Corsairs outright destroy the Vipers, kind of puts an emphasis on gray. "The Vipers killed innocents, we killed them, they were an asset to the Imperium, but also a detriment to its people," or something of the like.

[Grey Hunter Ydalir]

I think it shows a bit more ruthlessness if the Corsairs outright destroy the Vipers, kind of puts an emphasis on gray. "The Vipers killed innocents, we killed them, they were an asset to the Imperium, but also a detriment to its people," or something of the like.

 

This, this is good and exactly what i wanted. Yes the Corsairs are ruthless. Survivalism is a ruthless mindset by necessity and it is something inherited from their homeworld.

 

I'd see it as the Corsairs initially pushing the Vipers out of the sector only for the Vipers to return later with their whole fleet only to eventually see them wiped out to a man by the Corsairs.

 

If an Inquisitor did get involved, or anyone bar a First Founding representative for that matter, would probably get spaced mighty quick.

 

The Snake and the Viper?

 

Since a viper is a snake, perhaps not 'the snake', ( :P ) but yes, in essence.

 

Does this mean the Corsairs reveal that they have been spreading their people throughout the sector?

 

I'm not sure. If they could keep it under wraps I'd imagine they would.

 

 

The question I have regarding ending the conflict is: what would happen to the two chapters?

 

I think it just got answered! :tu:

 

Thanks Ace, KHK. Appreciate the input.

[Octavulg]

Honestly, shades of grey might be more apparent if the Corsairs were the ones who committed the misstep, rather than the Vipers. Hard to say, though. Then have the Vipers respond as they did, then have them wipe the Vipers out. Nobody'd come out looking good - especially if the chapter home world's well-populated.

[Argon]

plot

 

Happy to help. I just wanna see an IA for these guys. I have that strange feeling it'll be awesome ;) .