What can be done to improve chaos?

[chaplain belisarius]

I hear a lot of comments about how the current chaos dex isnt as good as the last one-i agree to some extent.

 

Do you guys have any idea on how to fix chaos? Iwould like a return of the old legion rules but in a less extreme way than in the last dex. Maybe each legion has a signature unit or change to the FOC.

 

night lords-can take another fast attack unit but may only take 1 heavy support choice (or maybe can take bikes as troops?)

 

word bearers-2 elite, 2 heavy, 2 fast attack but can take 9 troop choices.

 

Iron warriors-can take another heavy support choice but may only take 1 fast attack

 

Alpha legion-may infiltrate?

 

Black legion-No idea? maybe can take a unit of terminators as troops?

 

I would then probably either limit the amount of cult troops used by the legions or possibly cut them out altogether (in the case of the iron warriors perhaps)

 

Any ideas? any comments? lets sort this out people!

[Captain Juan Juarez]

I hear a lot of comments about how the current chaos dex isnt as good as the last one-i agree to some extent.

 

Do you guys have any idea on how to fix chaos? Iwould like a return of the old legion rules but in a less extreme way than in the last dex. Maybe each legion has a signature unit or change to the FOC.

 

night lords-can take another fast attack unit but may only take 1 heavy support choice (or maybe can take bikes as troops?)

 

word bearers-2 elite, 2 heavy, 2 fast attack but can take 9 troop choices.

 

Iron warriors-can take another heavy support choice but may only take 1 fast attack

 

Alpha legion-may infiltrate?

 

Black legion-No idea? maybe can take a unit of terminators as troops?

 

I would then probably either limit the amount of cult troops used by the legions or possibly cut them out altogether (in the case of the iron warriors perhaps)

 

Any ideas? any comments? lets sort this out people!

 

In theory this sort of thing would work.. In the same way the an SM Biker Captain would allow you to field a White Scar force. But i think a bit more thought need to go into it.. Bear in mind I'm unfamiliar with the whole Chaos rules thing, because I'm a good little Loyalist!

[The Nephilim]

Without wanting to sound overly snarky:

Answer - A new codex not written by Thorpe.

[chaplain belisarius]

This is just an idea...i reckon in the last chaos dex they got it spot on but then went silly with veteran abilities and the like.

 

Cult troops (plaguemarines, etc) should get a free aspiring champion if they take the sacred number of people (i liked that rule plus it was really fluffy...people should be rewarded, not penalised for playing a fluffy army!)

 

Come on guys! give me some ideas...

[Bodacious2182]

1) Use the current codex for undivided legions but with an addendum for those legions to make them more specialized for people who want to play those legions.

2) Legion codexes: A World Eaters Codex, A Death Guard Codex, Emperor's Children Codex, and a Thousand Son's Codex.

 

 

Whatever happens the next codex (or codexes) should be fairly awesome given recent trends.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

This is just an idea...i reckon in the last chaos dex they got it spot on but then went silly with veteran abilities and the like.

 

Cult troops (plaguemarines, etc) should get a free aspiring champion if they take the sacred number of people (i liked that rule plus it was really fluffy...people should be rewarded, not penalised for playing a fluffy army!)

 

Come on guys! give me some ideas...

 

Hey, I remember that rule.. Wow, I do know something about Chaos... :blink:

[NinjaPingumarine]

Basically, u need to make them as shooty as possible. I used to collect them and i always lost becoz they were to choppy. Chuck some havocs n predators in there and shoot shoot shoot!!!! :blink:

[Chaos Lord Shamrockius]

Ok, first of all I think "oh no not this thread again" and then I don't understand why all of the suggestions are either in the old dex, in the old threads or such as Nephilim said, Thorpe should be given a 3 month sabattical while the write our next book.

 

I am sorry to say it, but I do not understand why we do not have a set of Codecies. How is Black Legion, World Eaters, Night lords, Iron Warriors et al any different than Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Ultamarines and co? I do understand that with "warband" probabilities, it isn't going to be that simple but at the same time, they are all individual legions/chapters of the first founding with their own identity, ethos, beliefs, individuality and characteristics. I do accept that economically it may not be viable, but I feel that they were trying to do that in some way with 3.5 and then this was done away with and made worse by throwing all 9 legions plus all the renegades back in one bag, mixing it up till it makes very little sense and then throw it out at the public who will take advantage of every loop hole between the fluff we have grown to know and the codex they bashed together.

 

In answer on the whole, I feel the following would help by being ratified.

 

* Individuality of daemon princes through skills, powers etc

* Clarity of fluff which would lead to...

* greater detailing of what each chapter could take (NL and less HS, IW and less FA, if AL should be able to take anything that would come from the warp such as any daemons or defilers if they have never been IN the warp etc)

* Greater powers for each special character which are passed on to the army they lead

* Use of certain wargear/vehicles that would have been available to the chapters during the heresy (drop

pods etc), plus maybe availability of new and distinctly idiotic/chaotic vehicle variants dreamed up by the dark mechanicum or a wild warsmith, not to mention daemon engine variants

* Giving each collector the posibility of doing something in building army lists, their own characters and combinations that are both varied AND competitive.

* Differentiating between founding chapters turned traitor and other, renegade chapters or warband that have left the imperium since.

[Sheff]

Relegate icons to personal only and bring back marks.

 

Dedicated vehicles.

 

Word bearers may take lesser demons and greater demons as compulsory units.

 

Allow greater demons a mark and wings, demon princes can take demon weapons.

 

Make terminator lords good.

 

Get rid of possessed and have the option to possess a mark alternative/addition

 

Allow certain units to become troops when using an undivided/legion specific list.

 

Revert the crazed rule back to its 3.5 ruling.

 

Bring back diametric worship.

 

Psychic hood for at least khorne.

 

A viable unit at around 50 points or so.

[Clewz]

Some chaos gifts, more daemon engines, perhaps some slaves/mutants/cannon fodder

[Seahawk]

Put fluff/fluffy choices/fluffy armies/fluffy design back in the book. Don't spend two weeks developing/playtesting/publishing it. DONE.

[the jeske]

let csm/termis/havocks/bikers pick up the icon from the dead guy.

[IronWinds]

Or... just remove icons, replace with marks and let champs have personal icons for 5pts. Yes that makes my CSM squads 5 ps more expensive than they are now... I don't care, their loyalty should not falter at the drop of an icon.. literally.

 

Things to fix.

 

Fire Gav Thorpe if so much as speaks to the codex designer. If he is the codex designer fire him and Jervis.

 

Bring back legions. Don't need anything fancy, but anything would be nice right now.

Some mortal followers would be nice.

 

New units. This codex has less, so we need probably 15 new units to make up for the ones you removed, plus the new units we should have gotten with the last codex and this one. I will not complain 1 cent if those 15 units are roughly 10 types of demons, 2 new vehicles, 2 types of human followers, and surprise me with the 15th ;) .

 

FIX possessed... such amazing models, that we can't use. I think every chaos vet has a squad sitting around just because they wanted to paint the new models, but no one fields them.

 

New dreadnought model AND rules. He is crazy I get it... Zanex 5pts... there all better. :P

 

Demons... we don't need 50 types... 8-10 will do.. and just mentioning 8 you know what 8 I mean(hint.. 4 troop, 4 HQ).

 

An armory... I miss that thing a lot.

 

Make lords are more viable choice... benefits they grant on other troops would make sense.

 

Demonic Speed back... so not everyone has a freaking flying prince... and I might be biased having a very converted speed prince.

 

Some sort of psychic shutdown ability. Something I read on a chaos players suggestion ideas for a new codex that stuck with me was a power that allows a chaos psyker to attack an enemy psyker with their mind causing them to suffer from perils of the warp. Makes sense, is very chaosy, and I think it actually happens in Dark Creed so you already have fluff support.

[saintevil]

Oh no. Not another one. How many more of these threads are going to pop up? We all had our 2cents put in but it is starting to look more like 2dollars. Why are chaos players so whiney? Stop complaining and start being a bit more positive! GLORY TO CHAOS! See? much better use for the air in my lungs! BTW, I play nl so i know how you feel with the whole warband thing. But get over yourselves! And for Khornes sake stop whining like ultramarine players! We got a way cooler army. OK. That was my ranting for the month. You may now proceed with leading me to the stake to be burned.

[Bodacious2182]

For the record, Thorpe posted on his blog that he isn't part of the team that writes codexes any more, so we don't have to worry about that.

[Captain Juan Juarez]

Oh no. Not another one. How many more of these threads are going to pop up? We all had our 2cents put in but it is starting to look more like 2dollars. Why are chaos players so whiney? Stop complaining and start being a bit more positive! GLORY TO CHAOS! See? much better use for the air in my lungs! BTW, I play nl so i know how you feel with the whole warband thing. But get over yourselves! And for Khornes sake stop whining like ultramarine players! We got a way cooler army. OK. That was my ranting for the month. You may now proceed with leading me to the stake to be burned.

 

You know its this kind of post that often leads to the involvement of the ==][==.

 

I don't see this as whining, really it's more of a daydream thread.. But daydreams can often bring good ideas!

[chaplain belisarius]

I agree-i cant stand people whining about the new codex. Surely we can do something positive to fix it?

 

Thats a great idea on the return of marks of chaos-the icon thing is silly!

 

As regards legion specific codexes-i honestly doubt games workshop would do that (it would be great if they did, but i cant see it happening). Just like i doubt GW would do codexes for each eldar craftworld or ork clan (again, this would be nice..)

 

does anyone have more ideas?

[Penmarch']

I agree-i cant stand people whining about the new codex. Surely we can do something positive to fix it?

 

Thats a great idea on the return of marks of chaos-the icon thing is silly!

 

As regards legion specific codexes-i honestly doubt games workshop would do that (it would be great if they did, but i cant see it happening). Just like i doubt GW would do codexes for each eldar craftworld or ork clan (again, this would be nice..)

 

does anyone have more ideas?

 

So in one sentence you say people are whining since they don't like the codex - neither do I- and then ask for ideas to fix it? ;)

Ork clans and Eldar Craftworlds don't have separate codices, but they are very distinct in their own codex. Chaos isn't anymore and I feel that's the major gripe with most players. I know it's mine.

FWIW I think that the only possibility to get a decent game again, is to is to get the game away from GW.

[IronWinds]

When you loose your job... whining doesn't do anything, go look for a new one.

 

When your car breaks down... whining doesn't do anything, call a tow truck.

 

When a company makes a bad product you can whine and complain so the company will change(you hope), you can sell your stuff only to buy another army that will one day have the same problem, or sell your army and play a different game, or if your rich buy enough of the stock that your opinion matters.

 

So for all the anti-whining people... either all the pissed off chaos players quit 40k or they complain that GW made a horrible product, or they can band together and buy GW and Chaos will always have the very very best codex... but that is expensive. I have put to much into this hobby to just quit... even though I actually did for a few years, and I can't afford to buy millions of shares of GW. So complaining is what I will do ;) .

 

Something constructive I can do is put good ideas out there that I hope GW catches onto... which is what this thread is for. so this really is a positively focused thread :ermm: .

[Hellios]

buy enough of the stock that your opinion matters.

 

Now if people just want to send their money to my paypal account... I mean the "convert GW2Chaos" fund. We can pay for all the extra work for chaos by increasing the price of Ultra Marine products.

[Chaos Lord Shamrockius]

Ok, if the idea is a protest, why don't we all stop buying any GW products from the main site/stores? I'm sure there are other ways of buying stock without going through official channels... Don't want to say too much in case the =I= stop by and nail me to a cross...

[Hellios]

Ok, if the idea is a protest, why don't we all stop buying any GW products from the main site/stores? I'm sure there are other ways of buying stock without going through official channels... Don't want to say too much in case the =I= stop by and nail me to a cross...

 

Only works with second hand stuff and even then maybe if they are leaving the hobby...

[Archnomad]

Or how about get everyone to just switch to Battlefleet Gothic, Mordheim, and Blood Bowl. Where playing Chaos actually feels like you're playing CHAOS. Not bland elite warriors with no flavour (as it currently is in 40k and WHFB).

 

 

Not that this ties in with my sneaky scheme of bringing my 3 favourite GW games to the fore again.... not at all....

 

*Shifty Tzeentchian Glances*

[IronWinds]

Ok, if the idea is a protest, why don't we all stop buying any GW products from the main site/stores?

 

Well buying from an independent retailer still ends up with the money in GW's pocket. I actually have never been in a GW store but GW has gotten a lot of my money over the past decade.

 

Now why don't I stop buying from GW? With the exception of some metal icons and paint last year... I have ;) . In 3.5 I was probably spending several hundred a year on chaos units... had to to get to the near 10k pts I have now. Since 4th ed chaos I have bought 1 Chaos codex, 10 terminators, a shadowsword, some bits off ebay, and someone gave me my possessed.... and some paint. And technically I bought the shadowsword and terminators from another chaos player but I know he immediately bought other stuff from GW so it still ended up in their pockets.

 

Money that went directly from my wallet directly to GW... a codex, paint, and some icons. What $50? That use to be the minimum I spent a month :rolleyes: . For the most part I have boycotted GW. No one gets my money for free, you have to earn it, and they have not.

 

I've spent my money other places, FW got a lot of it, and companies that make bases and other modeling stuffs.

 

 

I like what your saying Archnomad. I have a pretty big fleet, I might have to bring it back out.

[the jeske]

how sales looked for many people in 3.5 dex. Build an IW list gunline . play with , it play with , it play with itb ..getting board . trying something else[a non gunline IW , maybe another legion army with different play style] . get new army play with it , play with it . buy demons and make a demon bomb. try playing it out of WB first , then try a khorn one [ aside for demons and bikes most models still there].. etc.

 

4th ed dex. buy 9 oblits ,6 rhinos, 2 LR ,18 terminators . 40 csm/pms .32 zerkers .2 DPs you never need to buy any models ever again. and you can play up to 2500.